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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Otto Hahn/archive1

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Otto Hahn

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Otto Hahn (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 24 October 2024, 05:19 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.
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Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Otto Hahn, the German chemist who was awarded the 1944 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the discovery of nuclear fission. Today Hahn is something of a divisive figure. A century ago, there was much less of a distinction between chemistry and physics. Hahn was involved early in the chemistry of radioactive substances. Their presence could be detected from their radioactivity, and their unique half lives. Unfortunately, most of the new elements he discovered turned out to be isotopes, a concept that had not been invented when he began. He also had to deal with a lot of disapproval from more traditional chemists, for whom chemistry involved substances you could see, and smell and taste. Early on he formed a professional relationship with a physicist, Lise Meitner. Among his generation, he was regarded as progressive in his attitudes towards women, even a feminist. But women like Meitner still considered him a male chauvinist pig, and their historians have been much less reticent about publicly calling him one. After World War II, his cause was to resurrect the reputation of German science, which had been tarnished (to say the least) in the Nazi period. In this role, he sought publicity and downplayed uncomfortable truths. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

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Nikkimaria (talk) 04:58, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LittleLazyLass

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  • This is just a flyby, but I really think could do with more organization. Currently it had a whole nineteen major top level sections and zero subsections. A quick look at other FA biographies within the Science and Academia subject area doesn't seem to indicate this is a standard I'm not aware of. Some basic level of consolidation with his scientific advances in one section, personal life in another, and the Nobel Prize could probably make a section with his other honours seems doable and would make a big difference. Failing that even rudimentary sorting the events into subsections by time period would be an improvement of being bombarded with everything separate. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 20:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're quite correct; there is no standard. There are 33 featured article biographies of physicists and chemists, of which I brought 23 of them to featured. The article is written in chronological order and follows the layout guideline in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout. I will consider your proposal. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:29, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

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I'll try to review this soon. Hog Farm Talk 13:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • " "The Open Door Web Site : Chemistry : Visual Chemistry : Protactinium". Archived from the original on 16 December 2022. Retrieved 16 December 2022." - what makes this a high-quality RS? I would expect that it should be not overly difficult to find a better source for something as basic as what this is supporting
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""Entdeckung der Kernspaltung 1938, Versuchsaufbau, Deutsches Museum München | Faszination Museum". YouTube. 7 July 2015." - what makes this YouTube video a high-quality reliable source?
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Originalgeräte zur Entdeckung der Kernspaltung, "Hahn-Meitner-Straßmann-Tisch"". - citation needs the publisher and any other information added
    Added publisher and access date
  • ""Father of Nuclear Chemistry – Otto Emil Hahn". Kemicalinfo. 20 May 2020." - what makes this a high-quality RS?
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Brown, Brandon R. (16 May 2015). "Gerard Kuiper's Daring Rescue of Max Planck at the End of World War II". Scientific American Blog Network. Retrieved 27 June 2020." - Scientific American is a decent source, but can we give their blog network the same level of quality?
    Brandon R. Brown is professor of physics and astronomy at the University of San Francisco. He is the author of Planck: Driven by Vision, Broken by War (Oxford, 2015), which won the 2016 Housatonic Award for nonfiction. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • " "NS Otto Hahn". Germany's Nuclear Powered Cargo Ship. Retrieved 28 June 2020." - what makes this a high-quality RS? And "Germany's Nuclear Powered Cargo Ship" is not the publisher in this source
    It was the source used by the article on the ship. Switched to a couple of other sources. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it really on-topic to list all of the physicists that Meitner became friends with in an article on Hahn? That content seems more suited for our article on Meitner
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link phosgene?
    Linked

Will continue this; hopefully tomorrow. Hog Farm Talk 02:43, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I anticipate supporting, but want to give this another read-through first. Hog Farm Talk 02:22, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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I am working on this now. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:10, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some initial comments:

I'll keep looking and leave more comments later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:30, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I replied to a couple items above; otherwise, I consider those initial comments addressed. I'll have more fresh comments later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 02:32, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see my comments above are all satisfactorily addressed. Here are a few more:

I'll continue looking at the sources and more comments later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Having finally gone through the rest of the citations, here are some more comments:

  • Citation 40: Wikilink Lise Meitner for consistency and to help readers.
    Linked. 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Scerri: If this is a chapter in a book, add page numbers for the chapter and page number for the part that supports the relevant claim in the article. Also add the publisher and location of publication. I also think it is worth writing out the whole title, for the benefit of the reader: The Periodic Table: Its Story and Its Significance.
    Publisher, location and title are already there. Added page range. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • For consistency, add the language tag to the second instance of Meitner 1918 citation.
    I'm not sure what is being asked for here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When I wrote this comment, Meitner 1918 was cited twice slightly differently, so it showed up as citation 40 and again as citation 43. It appears that you have fixed this issue, so now it is showing up as just citation 40, formatted with the language tag. That is to say, it is already fixed! Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The two "Nomination Database" citations: The website uses the term "Nomination Archive", so I think the citations should too. Where does the 9 June 2020 publication date come from?
    Should have been access date. Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • PubChem: I think "PubChem" should be used for the website parameter and "National Library of Medicine" for the publisher parameter. I also think it is worth Wikilinking both names.
    Changed as suggested. Not linking publishers. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not a source review comment: Hahn was now confident enough that he had found something that he named his new isotope "uranium Z", and in February 1921, he published the first report on his discovery. The first "that" is unnecessary.
    Deleted "that" . Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hahn 1923: why is Hahn's name written twice?
    Not seeing this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is another issue that was fixed between when I wrote this comment and when you replied to it. It is fixed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Feather Bretscher Appleton 1938: Could you get more specific with the page number?
    Yes. Done. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Max Planck becomes President of the KWS" should be "Max Planck Becomes President of the KWS".
    Capitalised Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The KWS introduces the 'Führerprinzip'" should be "The KWS Introduces the 'Führerprinzip'"
    Capitalised Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Originalgeräte zur Entdeckung der Kernspaltung, "Hahn-Meitner-Straßmann-Tisch"" should be "Originalgeräte zur Entdeckung der Kernspaltung, 'Hahn-Meitner-Straßmann-Tisch'" per MOS:QWQ
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sime 2010: capitalize the first "the"
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sime 2010: could you get more specific with the page number(s) being referenced
    Done. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fergusson 2011: same.
    Done. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hahn Meitner Strassmann 9 June 1937: same.
    That one is there to provide the reader with the whole paper. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This citation is used twice. The first instance seems to be the paper as a whole backing up the claim that it exists, which means it is appropriate to include the entirety of the paper. However, the second use is shared with Sime 1997 in supporting 5.5 sentences, including a quote. In that second instance, I think it is appropriate to get more specific with the page numbering. Furthermore, as it stands, it is not clear which of the two sources includes the quote on which of 22 pages. I think the quote should be followed by the one citation showing which page in which of the two sources includes that quote. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Doesn't the fact that the the article says it was in the conclusion tell the reader that it appears on the last page? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I think that's fine. I realize, however, that I was confusing two different citations in my last addition to this comment thread. Let's consider this comment addressed. I'll write a new comment just below this. Dugan Murphy (talk) 14:53, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • NEW INSERTED COMMENT RELATED TO THE ONE ABOVE – Hahn Meitner Strassmann May 1937: The second instance of this citation is paired with Sime 1996 in such a way as to make unclear which of those two citations is where the reader can verify the quote immediately precedes the two citations. Which is it? Dugan Murphy (talk) 14:53, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frisch Feb 1939: capitalize "Under".
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hahn Strassman Feb 1939: add language parameter
    Already there. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The same website is variably cited as "Nobel Media AB", "Nobel Foundation", and "NobelPrize.org". You should standardize that. Also, it is Wikilinked in one of those instances; if that isn't being done elsewhere, it shouldn't be done once.
    Standardised on "Nobel Foundation"; unlinked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Statutes of the Nobel Foundation": where does the 2018 publication date come from?
    The metadata. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The end of the war and transition. Max Planck is Interim President of the KWS" needs capitalization for "end", "war", and "transition".
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citation 137 is "Macrakis 1993, pp. 189–189": should that be just 189 or should one of the two 189s not be 189?
    Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The birth of the Max Planck Society": capitalize "birth".
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The founding of today's Max Planck Society": capitalize "founding" and "today's".
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "NATO chief backs Germany's vow to keep war-ready US nukes": capitalize everything but "to" and italicize Defence News.
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The title of the publication is still not italicized. That's because it is showing up as the publisher rather than the title of the publication. It appears to be the publication title. Swapping the publisher parameter for the title parameter will fix this issue. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Preparing earth constitution": Capitalize the title.
    Capitalised. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Preparing earth constitution": The title seems to be just "Preparing earth constitution", so "| Global Strategies & Solutions | The Encyclopedia of World Problems" doesn't appear to be part of that title.
    Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Preparing earth constitution": I think "The Encyclopedia of World Problems" is the title of the website and "Union of International Associations (UIA)" is the publisher. Right now, "The Encyclopedia of World Problems | Union of International Associations (UIA)" is written out as the website title.
    Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The www.friedhofguide.de link is broken. Got an archive link? And what makes this website a reliable source?
    The internet archive is still down. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's working for me! Here's the archive link for July 18, 2021, which hopefully provides the information it did on June 28, 2020. It's actually archive for the web address to which the listed address forwarded at the time, which appears to support the claim this citation purports to support. I'm unfamiliar with this website. What makes it a reliable source? Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not working for me. The source is a guide to the cemetery. Cannot locate an alternative; all the ones I have looked for are archives on Internet Archive. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:36, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • If I'm reading this right, the obit written by the Max Planck Society is claimed to have been published in "all the major newspapers in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland" and that claim is backed up by citing 5 newspapers in those 3 countries. Do you have a reliable source that says which newspapers were "all the major newspapers" in those countries at that time? Also, for consistency, this citation should be broken into separate citations using the Cite News template.

Summary: Everything in the References list are books held by academic libraries or articles in academic journals. Everything in the "notes" section looks reliable and primary sources are used appropriately, with the exceptions noted in individual comments above. There are a lot of works from Hahn's lifetime by people in his life, which makes me wary, but I'm willing to accept the reasoning you stated above in reply to one of my earlier comments on that topic. There certainly is a wide breadth of sources included here. With the exception of a few cases addressed in my above comments, the citations are consistently formatted. This article represents a lot of work and I can appreciate it. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:46, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

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Hi Hawkeye7, my comments:

More to come tomorrow. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 17:58, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7, my next set of comments:
That's all from me. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 10:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Adding my support, all the issues I had raised have been addressed. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 12:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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