Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

Not to be confused with Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American football, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football, or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian football.

Non-senior level statistics

What is the MOS (if it exists) for listing statistics for under-18/-21/etc. level international football? I’m working on a number of Danish player articles and have added a few detailed statistics for non-senior level. (Example here). If it’s verifiable, is there any harm to adding these or should we stick strictly to senior level caps? Thanks in advance for any input. Sunny☀️Tango (talk • edits) 23:50, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I would stick with senior caps, everything else is overkill, imo. Kante4 (talk) 13:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Infobox, youth international caps are good. In the prose/stats table, unnecessary. RedPatch (talk) 18:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at: Talk:FIU Stadium#Requested move 21 October 2024

An editor has requested that FIU Stadium be moved to Pitbull Stadium, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Thank you. Esb5415 (talk) (C) 18:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

How should Template:Football squad be used in a specific team?

I would like to ask because I would like to know if it is good to include the unregistered player in the Template:Football squad?

For example in Bradford City A.F.C., there is a player called Freddy Jeffreys. He is not listed in Official Bradford FC Squad and he is not included by Bradford City A.F.C., according EFL Squad List (Page 95/96 of the PDF). Winston (talk) 01:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

If there is no evidence that he's currently part of the squad, then remove him. Spike 'em (talk) 05:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually I tried to remove using WP:RS the entry but it got reverted. The other editor said the player could be removed only if there are evidence that he left the club. I personally thinks the editor not allowing me to remove is a pure WP:POINTy. Winston (talk) 12:00, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

There are no current sources showing him as a member of any squad at Bradford so I've removed him from squad template and the list on main team page. The Bradford list of retained players made no mention of him either, so we cannot assume he still has a contract with the club. Spike 'em (talk) 12:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Just to make my reasoning clear: Bradford made an announcement of retained/released players in May and another on squad numbers in July, neither of which mention Jeffreys. He does not appear on either the Bradford first team page nor the U19s one (these are what are used as references on the various pages affected). He was not included in the EFL squad list and I have not found a subsequent announcement that he has signed a new contract. If Bradford or other sources don't consider him a squad member then we should not either. Spike 'em (talk) 19:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

There is a link on his page here used to justify him still being a Bradford player, but this merely says that Jeffreys looks set to be offered a short-term deal by City while he recovers from the injury that cut short his Scottish loan not that he has actually been offered, let alone signed, a new playing contract. Spike 'em (talk) 13:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

As I mentioned earlier all U19 player got contract offered. Should we include all the U19 player in the list? If GiantSnowman said don't be ridiculous to place U19 player solely based on the playing contract then would it be ridiculous to place a unregistered player in the list solely based on the playing contract? Winston (talk) 23:53, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

You really should have referenced this discussion and pinged @GiantSnowman. I don't agree with his assessment on Jeffreys, but would have been good to see it at the beginning. Spike 'em (talk) 12:56, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I actually discussed this with him. I don't agree with him too. Winston (talk) 13:02, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I can see that now but I only found that by hunting around for it. You should have clearly disclosed where you had discussed it already and with whom. Spike 'em (talk) 13:08, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I see. Yeah I think he should join and discuss too. Otherwise if it is one-to-one discussion he would use his privileged right (warning to block me from removing Jefferys, even I put all the evidence to shows that he is wrong). Winston (talk) 13:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Really, really poor form not to notify me about this! GiantSnowman 16:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I think it’s probably because he’s one of their players with an article?

He has made appearances for Bradford in the EFL Trophy so it might be worth doing what some other clubs have and adding an U21/Academy section below and place him there. Like what Manchester City have for example. Josh (talk) 11:00, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

But that was last season, and there is no mention of him on their website or league squad list for this season (in first team or U19s). According to Bradford, he signed a 1 year deal in July 23, and no news anywhere that he has definitely renewed it. Spike 'em (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

The template was designed to link the current squad players with articles together, regardless of being separated between youth and senior squads. Govvy (talk) 11:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Should the template (e.g. Template:Bradford City A.F.C. squad) include all U19 player? Then there will be 50+ players in the squad. Winston (talk) 12:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

No, don't be ridiculous. GiantSnowman 16:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

So where the line is drawn? Should we put unregistered player in the first team squad? In Bradford City current squad there is reference article and Jefferys was not included in it. So under what WP:RS it said Jefferys is a Bradford AFC first team player? U19 players also signed a contract with the club but it would not included in the Bradford First Team list so barely signing a contract doesn't make the player first team player. Winston (talk) 23:46, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Jeffreys signed a new contract at the end of last season - see his article! GiantSnowman 16:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

And if you are going to remove the template etc. on the basis he has left the club, please update his article to reflect that... GiantSnowman 16:29, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I do not know what his exact contract situation is, but am confident that he is not a member of the first-team squad at Bradford, which is why I made the changes I did. As per discussion point below, I'm more ambivalent about making players free-agents once their last confirmed contract expires. Spike 'em (talk) 17:26, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the Wikipedia article should be fact-based. And also I agree that the Template:Football squad and Official Page should list all the registered first team player (as per EFL or Official page). Jefferys was not listed in both EFL and Official page so I agree that he should be removed. Winston (talk) 23:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

According to EFL Squad List 23/24 (Page 105), Freddy Jeffreys was registered last year. And this is the reason he made appearances for Bradford in the EFL Trophy. But he is not registered in the EFL system and he is not listed in Bradford AFC senior and U19 squad.

If it is in the article (e.g. Man City) then making a separate section saying that the player is U21/Academy player would make sense. But here we are discussion should the unregistered player added in the template (e.g. Template:Bradford City A.F.C. squad) that belongs to the first team? Winston (talk) 12:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Should the player-club relationship terminate when the contract expire?

Due to my understanding most UK football player contract ends at 30 Jun. Does it mean that the player is a free agent (player-club relationship terminate) after 30 Jun when the existing contract expire? Winston (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm more ambivalent about this one : there are often cases where clubs renew contracts without fanfare, or let players continue to train whilst technically out of contract. If a club says player had not been retained / offered new contract then I'd say the player is then a free-agent. Spike 'em (talk) 12:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Should wikipedia based on WP:RS? If we strictly follow reliable source then should we say the player-club relationship terminate when the contract expire (unless there are reliable source saying the player belongs to the club, e.g. contract renewal)? Winston (talk) 12:49, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

What I mean is - with the reliable source on hand. The last known information was the last known contract, which is expired. Other than that anything (e.g. player renew contracts without fanfare) would seems WP:OR to me. Winston (talk) 12:55, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Football error?

Right at the bottom of the page is a link too Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 October 9#Template:Cobaltore Onagawa squad, I am confused why that link is there, it's certainly doesn't appear to be part of any AfD on the page. Cheers, Govvy (talk) 16:16, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Someone has added a straight link to a TfD rather than transcluding it. I tried fixing, but no luck. Spike 'em (talk) 18:18, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Umm, it's not a TfD queue know, shouldn't we just remove it? The bot won't pick that up. Govvy (talk) 18:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, probably, it's closed and from 2 weeks ago. Spike 'em (talk) 19:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

"OFC" or "Oceania" Club Championship?

Before 2007, the competition now known as OFC Champions League, was definitely called the Club Championship but have always been confused on it being called the "OFC Club Championship" or the "Oceania Club Championship". As of now the articles name it as "Oceania"; not sure why but may have something to do with the association name not being OFC, although it still seemed to be called the OFC then. According to this source by OFC, it lists the competition name as "OFC Club Championship" for all editions before the name change in 2007. FastCube (talk) 07:09, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

The 1987 edition, with the unverifiable early stages, appears to have been organised by the Australian and NZ federations and only later became retrospectively associated with the OFC. Hack (talk) 08:07, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Template:UEFA fifth level leagues

I've just noticed this template on an AfD, but it seems kinda random to me! One fifth level might be a semi-pro, while another is amateur, it's just, random, I honestly don't see the point of this template and I don't believe this kind of grouping makes sense outside of league pyramids, can we just get rid of it? Govvy (talk) 10:18, 25 October 2024 (UTC)