Talk:more

Another meaning

I know adverbs modify a verb ('run more') but what do we call it when a word modifies an adjective?

In this case "x is more violent than y" for example. I don't know what to call 'more' in this context. Etym (talk) 23:20, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

It's an adverb or maybe a determiner. See entry. Equinox ◑ 23:22, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

German has NO translation for "more" as a particle to form comparative!

Well, I'm native German and I think I know my language well enough to say that the translation of "more" as a comparative form is Ø. In other words: NIL. Nothing. In English you say "difficult" which corresponds to German schwierig; and "more difficult" which corresponds to German schwieriger. So the German rule of thumb with the comparative is that an -er suffix is appended to the adjective. But you must not translate this use of "more" to "mehr". That's wrong. Corrected! -andy 77.190.13.94 06:01, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

So the translation is the ending -er, not nil or nothing. However, "mehr" can in fact be used to form the comparative with participles: "mehr verwundet" ("more wounded") is correct standard German. In fact, this construction is preferred in prescriptivist grammar. I think the same is true with undeclinable adjectives ("mehr rosa", "mehr sexy"). It is true that this construction is not very popular, so in ordinary native speech you would predominantly say "verwundeter", "rosaner", "sexyer", etc. 92.218.236.35 16:49, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Noun

According to the American Heritage Dictionary it is a noun, so I have removed the label. 76.5.135.223 02:51, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

You also removed the headword template. Aside from that, that doesn't solve the problem. I would say it's neither a noun nor a pronoun: it's really an adjective with the item it modifies omitted. When you say "we need to sell more", you're really saying "we need to sell more <something>". When you say "the more the merrier", you're really saying "the more <people/guests/whoever>, the merrier". The mere fact that it uses "the" doesn't change that, since we're not claiming that "merrier" is a noun, too. It's just an idiomatic construction with "the <comparative form of an adjective construction> the <comparative form of an adjective with a qualitative connotation>, as in "the sooner the better", or "the spicier the better", etc. I'll have to see if there's a discussion on this at WT:RFC. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:33, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

If you define "more" in "more milk, more people" as an indefinite determiner, then "more" without a following noun is an indefinite pronoun. If you define it as an adjective, then the independent use is a nominalised adjective, which is at least syntactically a noun. Personally I prefer the determiner-pronoun definition, but there is really no definite way of saying because much/more and little/few and their forms have conflicting properties, some more determiner, some more adjective. However, as a of April 2020 we have it as a pronoun and a noun, with two different definitions. That would have to be explained, though I'm not sure there is an explanation. 92.218.236.35 16:38, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

RFC

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I'm not certain that especially the first two definitions under determiner and adverb belong to each, and there seems to be the pronoun POS missing altogether. Can anyone have a look? (I'd rather not meddle with it myself as in my native language "determiner" is only considered a function, not a POS in its own right, so I'm afraid I might make more damage than good.) --Duncan 10:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

A determiner can serve in a pronomial capactiry (in English and Spanish), so the pronoun sense isn't missing. It looks as thoought the pronomial sense has been listed as a "Noun", and I'm not sure that's correct. I'll have a look at the entry. --EncycloPetey 17:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I've combined the apparently synonymous defintions, which reduces the number of definitions to 2, 2, and 1. Does that look better? I do think, however, that we might want to call the "noun" sense a "pronoun" instead, but that would affect a number of entries if we do. --EncycloPetey 17:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, it's much better now. Yes, I think that the "noun" sense is in fact either a pronoun or an adverb, but certainly not noun - at least not in the examples given. --Duncan 20:28, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

In the definitions, "more many/more much" - this sounds horrible --Volants 15:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

1. Comparative form of many: more many., in greater number. (for a discrete quantity)
2. Comparative form of much: more much., in greater quantity, amount, or proportion. (for a continuous quantity)

Well, I've made it stop saying "more many". - -sche (discuss) 06:38, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Struck. The etry was detagged months ago. - -sche (discuss) 02:22, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Determinative

I have changed the "Determiner" heading to "Determinative", since we're talking about category. See also Huddleston and Pullum. Drmies (talk) 16:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Etymology 3, Example 2

To increase by an amount larger than that previously mentioned.

2011: Bokardo

We wanted to double or triple (or more) the number of people who were signing up and trying out the product.

This may be a legitimate verb, but the etymology is the same as Etymology 1, not (as is the case with Example 1) Etymology 2. 37.190.146.24 21:08, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Clearly not a verb; removed; thanks for noticing. Equinox ◑ 21:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

RFV discussion: March–April 2019

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more

RfV-sense: Adverb: "rather" He is more clever than wise.

The definition is not substitutable, even in the usage example, let alone in variants like He is rather more clever than wise. or He is much more clever than wise.

To me the wording of adverb definition 1 "To a greater degree or extent." covers the usage example with the definiens appearing postpositively.

I can't find another dictionary that has this definition. I find it difficult to summon up examples where this definition is required. DCDuring (talk) 13:35, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

It appears to me that this is not an essentially different sense from what we see in He is more clever than is good for us. In both cases the first part can be paraphrased as His cleverness exceeds ..., where the first sentence can be finished with his wisdom and the other one with what is good for us.  --Lambiam 15:37, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

In fact, the definition is substitutable (more or less with the same meaning, anyway), but the result is an old-fashioned word order: "He is rather clever than wise" = "He is clever rather than wise". Because it is not ordinary modern English, I don't think it is "wise" to use this definition, at least not with this example. Mihia (talk) 18:22, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

I thought there might be a chance that it was from a different era. I suppose I should look at Century 1911. DCDuring (talk) 02:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 05:33, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

more's the pity

What meaning is used in more's the pity? --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:41, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Everyday meaning like "I have more bread than you". The pity is more, i.e. greater. It is even more of a pity. Equinox ◑ 12:16, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

one or more + singular noun

Should a note regarding its concord in sentences such as "one or more serving too much of alcohol" --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Backinstadiums: "One or more serving too many" is not grammatical! (It would be "one or more servings", i.e. literally one serving or more servings.) Equinox ◑ 12:16, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Possible missing English adverb from Latin

Chambers 1908 has more, adverb, "after the manner of", i.e. the Latin word mōre (ablative singular of mōs (“a custom”)). Obviously hard to attest. Has it entered English, like qua and other Latin words? Equinox ◑ 12:17, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

adverb : Moreover; furthermore.

Moreover --Backinstadiums (talk) 09:08, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

more of

This is more a war movie than a western; We see more of Sue these days
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/more-of

--Backinstadiums (talk) 16:37, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

rather

For example if in Well, he was more surprised than angry, he is NOT angry at all, but rather totally surprise, yet admittedly 100% is "a greater extent" than 0% --Backinstadiums (talk) 13:39, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

(of something)

(of something) in the definition is at odds with the usex There aren't many people here yet, but more should be arriving soon. --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:00, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

The "of" is optional. Hence parenthesis. Equinox ◑ 12:14, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Monosyllabic adjectives can take more for stylistic reasons

E.g. This was never more true than at present --Backinstadiums (talk) 10:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

more than = extremely

I'm more than (a little) happy (= extremely happy) to take you there in my car. --Backinstadiums (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2021 (UTC)