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Infobox

Shouldn't the image in this article's infobox be dated, as is the case with almost every other biography on Wikipedia? 147.147.205.222 (talk) 23:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The date is not known. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please decapitalize "Prime Minister" for not following MOS:JOBTITLE. 112.204.199.9 (talk) 11:11, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: It is used correctly, e.g., Theresa May became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in 2016. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 13:22, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image again

There's been some back and forth over the lead image again, so I figured it couldn't hurt to open up a new discussion thread. This was last discussed a couple years ago (here) but no clear consensus was achieved.

For reference, here are the two images that have recently been used:

Image 1
Image 2

I'm not crazy about either of them, frankly, and have no strong opinion as to which is better. But I see that others do have opinions on the matter, so it would be good to try to establish a consensus if possible. Generalrelative (talk) 01:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, 1 looks more neutral, 2 looks like a piece of propaganda. ალექსანდროს (talk) 06:07, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image 1 has an annoying background, which ruins the image; that’s the simple reason I reverted it. Articles on high-profile individuals are never allowed to have images with bad backgrounds. Trakking (talk) 08:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing propagandistic about the second image, which looks like any old black-and-white photo. It would have been ”propaganda” if he was wearing a crown, standing under a banner reading «our noble Caesar». If anything, the first image is more propagandistic since it portrays him as some kind of high-ranking military commander. In reality, both Mussolini and Hitler were only corporals—one of the lowest military ranks. Their primary talent was oratorical demagoguery. Trakking (talk) 10:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I vote for Image 1. The second image has his profile partly shrouded by shadow.Emiya1980 (talk) 22:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick.mon, M. Armando, Barjimoa, and Rjensen:Emiya1980 (talk) 23:05, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

voting for image 2 as it looks better as portrait. Shadow4dark (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alessandro57, Yakme, Anteosaurus magnificus, HangingCurve, Rrburke, Anthony22, and A.S. Brown: Any thoughts on this issue?Emiya1980 (talk) 08:45, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The second is a classic photo of Mussolini as he wanted to be seen (grim look, jaw out: this pose has been the subject of countless satirical drawings abroad), while the first shows him as he actually was. Since Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral, I say number one (although there are better photos around). Alex2006 (talk) 12:47, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox Picture

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Which of the following images should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?

A (Current Image)
B
B2
C
D
E
F

Emiya1980 (talk) 02:15, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DrKay, Lightiggy, Spf121188, Gennarous, R-41, Shanes, John, Kinneyboy90, Mkpumphrey, Kurt Leyman, Conte di Cavour, Nick Graves, LahmacunKebab, Attilios, and Mvaldemar:Emiya1980 (talk) 06:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current image is fine; B is alright as well. C and D have bad backgrounds. E is taken from an awkward angle. Trakking (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prefer, D since it's in color, is sensibly illustrative and not contrived or weird like E. After that, probably A, C, B, E in decreasing order. PS: A background that doesn't happen to be completely blank is not "bad". There is no image policy or guidelines basis for such a mis-assessment. Thousands and thousands of our bio articles have photos that are "natural" shots with real-life background elements in them instead of being artificially posed ones with blank or "haloing" background screens. Not only is this not faulty, an argument can be made that the natural ones are preferable. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 04:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~NOTA~~ Are these really the best free images of Mussolini that exist?? To be frank all of these are terrible. A and D have tiny resolutions, B and C are quite grainy, and E is a side-profile. With D, I'd also like to know if it is colorized/re-colorized; a reverse image search shows many different variations, which is concerning. Curbon7 (talk) 04:22, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Curbon7 You're free to provide an alternative.Emiya1980 (talk) 06:32, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Library of Congress has a large collection of negatives of Mussolini here. I'm sure other such repositories have similar. Curbon7 (talk) 06:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Upload some to Wikimedia Commons then.Emiya1980 (talk) 20:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're the RfC starter, you should have been better prepared for such a response when all the presented options are so lacking. Curbon7 (talk) 20:58, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's your opinion.Emiya1980 (talk) 21:01, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One that I share. Taking this kind of hostile posture toward RfC respondents is unproductive, and you should know better. No one is obligated to satisfy you, especially since you are the one who claims that the current image isn't good enough. You've been told how to find potentially better ones, and the onus is not on someone else to go do that for you. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 05:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If D is a recolor (which it almost certainly is, the original seems to have been printed on Agfacolor by Henri Roger-Viollet in 1940 (possible original)), the question becomes if it is a sufficiently neutral recolor, which is a frequent issue with colorizations of Axis figures of this era. Curbon7 (talk) 21:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note I have found a better quality and higher resolution version of B (c:File:Benito Mussolini 1930 (alt).jpg). I think it is quite an improvement and am leaning towards it. Curbon7 (talk) 05:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer either B or D.Emiya1980 (talk) 21:06, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Alessandro57, Yakme, Anteosaurus magnificus, HangingCurve, Rrburke, Anthony22, and A.S. Brown: Which image do you think should serve as the infobox picture for the Mussolini article?Emiya1980 (talk) 21:04, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Generalrelative, Shadow4dark, Alex2006, and ალექსანდროს:Emiya1980 (talk) 04:35, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Neveselbert, Rjensen, and Favonian:Emiya1980 (talk) 04:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Barjimoa,M.Armondo, and Nick.mon Which image should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?
A since the alternatives are not a real improvement to the status quo. Nemov (talk) 01:55, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A, per reasons stated above and no good reason to change. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:19, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A since the alternatives are not a real improvement, all are flawed in one way or another.Pincrete (talk) 03:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with @PincretePincrete, maybe the color version would be a slight upgrade, but why not just go with what Italian wiki uses. MaximusEditor (talk) 17:42, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
MaximusEditor The Italian wikipedia uses F.Emiya1980 (talk) 07:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the clarifying comment, I will cast a vote towards F. I think consistency across the board has its advantages. MaximusEditor (talk) 22:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note the Italian Wikipedia using this one https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mussolini_mezzobusto.jpg Shadow4dark (talk) 04:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shadow4dark Image added.Emiya1980 (talk) 05:02, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~voting for F as the others are no improvement for the current image~~. Changing my vote to A Shadow4dark (talk) 05:04, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding even more options just makes this a bigger mess for the closer. Nemov (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

D is best for an idea of what Italians were forced to see every day . Rjensen (talk) 05:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Barjimoa,M.Armondo, Nick.mon, ალექსანდროს & Generalrelative Which of the images listed above should serve as the infobox picture for Benito Mussolini?Emiya1980 (talk) 05:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

M. Armando See above question.Emiya1980 (talk) 05:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

C - for the key reason that, even though it was taken with Hitler in an official capacity, it is arguably among these photos the least controlled and manipulated one, i.e. the one that does not fully succeed in projecting a propaganda message. A simple visual reproduction of propaganda would contravene NPOV and none of the images manage to avoid this as they are sourced from either Fascist or Nazi official sources. Ideally a non-propagandistic photo should be found but that seems unlikely. If not C, then I would favour F (the pose corresponds to a school photo of 14-year-old Mussolini who was not a fascist yet^[1]). A and D are the worst offenders, both project an image of a visionary statesman and D is from the Nazi press targeting occupied Europe^[2]. The "jawsplaying" and the effect of emerging from a dark background in A is standard Mussolini visual self-promotion^[3]. VampaVampa (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
B2 As the highest quality and resolution version available. Curbon7 (talk) 23:52, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ A. Antola Swan, Photographing Mussolini, London 2020, pp. 219–224.
^ See Antola Swan 2020, p. 212–213, for an interpretation of A, and otherwise the updated photo descriptions for their origin and for the bombastic propaganda caption accompanying D.
^ Antola Swan, p. 260.

B or D: Both seems to be offical portraits, with one adding colour a part of history we only see in black and white. Cossde (talk) 15:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's my tally of the vote so far.

A-Pincrete, Nemov, Shadow4dark, Traumnovelle, Trakking

B/D-Cossde, SMcCandlish, Rjensen, Emiya1980

B2-Curbon7

C : VampaVampa, Alex2006, ალექსანდროს

F : MaximusEditor

Emiya1980 (talk) 21:06, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus is not determined by counting votes per WP:CON. Nemov (talk) 21:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To second what Nemov said, it would be more useful to have a shortlist of arguments advanced in favour or against each. VampaVampa (talk) 23:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you look above,arguments have already been advanced for each position. Emiya1980 (talk) 23:57, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps they ought to be addressed each in its turn for a consensus to be reached. That is why I suggested bringing them together for easier reference. VampaVampa (talk) 05:24, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

C or F, concurring with VampaVampa that they are the least 'propagandised' images from an NPOV perspective. AlexandraAVX (talk) 20:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As previously indicated by Szmenderowiecki, Choices (E) and (F) have failed to gain much traction since this Rfc was opened over 3 weeks ago. For this reason, I have removed them from the range of choices available in order to help bring this debate to a conclusion. With that being said, please set forth which image option you prefer below.

A (Current Image)
B
B2
C
D

Emiya1980 (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Pincrete, VampaVampa, AlexandraAVX, Curbon7, MaximusEditor, Cossde, SMcCandlish, Rjensen, Nemov, Shadow4dark, Traumnovelle, Alessandro57, Generalrelative, ალექსანდროს, Nick.mon, Yakme, Anteosaurus magnificus, HangingCurve, Rrburke, Anthony22, A.S. Brown, Barjimoa, M. Armando, Beyond My Ken, DrKay, Lightiggy, Spf121188, Gennarous, R-41, Shanes, John, Kinneyboy90, Mkpumphrey, Kurt Leyman, Conte di Cavour, Nick Graves, LahmacunKebab, Attilios, and Mvaldemar: See above.Emiya1980 (talk) 17:03, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] A. Antola Swan, Photographing Mussolini, London 2020, pp. 219–224.

[2] See Antola Swan 2020, p. 212–213, for an interpretation of A, and otherwise the updated photo descriptions for their origin and for the bombastic propaganda caption accompanying D.

[3] Antola Swan, p. 260.

[1]

[2]

[3]

@@ Line 142: / Line 142: @@
 </gallery> [[User:Emiya1980|Emiya1980]] ([[User talk:Emiya1980|talk]]) 16:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 {{ping|Pincrete|VampaVampa|AlexandraAVX|Curbon7|MaximusEditor|Cossde|SMcCandlish|Rjensen|Nemov|Shadow4dark|Traumnovelle|Alessandro57|Generalrelative|ალექსანდროს|Nick.mon|Yakme|Anteosaurus magnificus|HangingCurve|Rrburke|Anthony22|A.S. Brown|Barjimoa|M. Armando|Beyond My Ken|DrKay|Lightiggy|Spf121188|Gennarous|R-41|Shanes|John|Kinneyboy90|Mkpumphrey|Kurt Leyman|Conte di Cavour|Nick Graves|LahmacunKebab|Attilios|Mvaldemar}} See above.[[User:Emiya1980|Emiya1980]] ([[User talk:Emiya1980|talk]]) 17:03, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
-:Please stop pinging me. There's sufficient support for the status quo to close this RFC and save everyone the time. [[User:Nemov|Nemov]] ([[User talk:Nemov|talk]]) 17:11, 14 June 2024 (UTC)