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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GreenC bot (talk | contribs) at 10:31, 15 February 2019 (Add {{reflist-talk}} to #La chevalerie de Judas Macabé (via reftalk bot)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Untitled

There are two different spellings for Judas' father's name: Mathathias and Mattathias. Aligma 03:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pseudonym

he is jewish "Pseudonym" implies someone is trying to hide their identity, which is clearly not the case here. "Epithet" may have some unfortunate modern associations (probably because epithets like "the Hammer" aren't much seriously used in the Western world anymore), but it is the correct term.--Pharos 06:42, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly, I am trying to avoid "unfortunate modern associations". BTW, let's not forget that there was no such this as surname until many-many centuries later. What else do we have: nom de guerre, nickname? ←Humus sapiens←ну? 06:53, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, which is why I removed "surname". I think most readers will understand that calling someone "the Hammer" was not meant as an insult. An epithet is definitely a kind of nickname, but it doesn't have the same connotations of use. It would also be quite anachronistic to say that some 2,000-year-old person had a nom de guerre. I really don't think "epithet" is such a bad word; might your negative impression of it have been influenced by the somewhat common Wikipedia practice of dumping offensive content in "List of X epithets"?--Pharos 07:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose "honorific" would work? --99.226.246.180 (talk) 02:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If people say things like "Greek was the lingua franca of the ancient world", I don't see why nom de guerre would be unreasonable. -- TimNelson (talk) 06:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the Maccabeans article it states that Maccabee is "an acronym for the Biblical verse Mi kamokha ba'elim Hashem, "Who is like unto thee among the mighty, O Lord!" (Exdus 15:11)." Does it also mean hammer? Which is correct. I have no knowledge of Hebrew, so someone please help me out here...

Macabee means hammer, the idea of it being an acronym is more like a "backronym" or speculation. --99.226.246.180 (talk) 02:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who says that this is the acronym? How do we know this?```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSha (talk • contribs) 01:38, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Objection to the use of this image

I object to the use of the image containing the map of the Hasmonean Kingdom set against the background of the so-called present-day borders of Israel. The image is also being used in the articles on Hanukkah, on Maccabees, on Jewish history, on Hasmonean and on the Golan Heights. But these are not the internationally recognised borders of Israel. The image suggests that the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are integral parts of the state of Israel, whereas this is subject to international disputes. To present these borders as undisputed facts, is to lessen the quality of information provided by Wikipedia. I therefore decided to remove this image. In a (very swift) reaction by a Wikipedia administrator, he accused me of "blatant vandalism". That is absurd. I'm in the habit of using Wikipedia as a source of factual, unbiased information. Ocasionally, I make a small contribution to try to enhance the factual accuracy of an article. To enhance an article is not vandalism. It is what I thought Wikipedia was all about. There are undoubtedly many images available that could be used in these articles that depict the borders of Israel, while clearly marking the disputed Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights as disputed entities. Why would an unbiased encyclopedia, out of of all the available options, choose an image that is provided by the Israeli Foreign Ministry? If it is Wikipedia's standard policy to discourage user participation in this agressive way, then in my view, it fails in its stated purpose. --82.215.24.131 13:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

please do not double post. you have left this comment at talk:Golan Heights, Talk:Hasmonean, Talk:Judas Maccabeus, Talk:Maccabees, Talk:Hanukkah, and Talk:Jewish history. I have moved it to Image talk:Hasmonean-map.jpg. Jon513 14:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for opening that Image talk page and for your comment. But I would also have to disagree with you on multiple postings. There is a good reason to place multiple postings. Many users only view one of the involved pages. If they wish to see whether there are differences of opinion on the article they are reading, they have a right to a complete overview. Now if they would happen to forget to click on the image itself (and subsequently on its Image talk page), but instead would only view this discussion page, they would be denied that complete overview, if there were no multiple postings. --82.215.24.131 17:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

There are now two articles on the same person: Judas Maccabeus and Judah Maccabee, which must be merged. Please do not remove the tag until the merge is complete. Beit Or 15:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed move

I propose to move this page to Judah Maccabee, which appears to be a more common name in the modern English. Beit Or 20:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)he is jewish[reply]

Judas Maccabaeus, Jonathan Maccabaeus and Simon Maccabeus seem to be the popular form both as article title and incoming links --Henrygb 21:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

last Charles the Hammer info

I don't really know who that man was, but he leaved about 800 years after Judah's death. If any, Charles nickname derives from Judases, not the other way around.--ArnoldPettybone (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. With proper referencing and inline citations, this article would easily qualify for B class if not GA. --dashiellx (talk) 19:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

name?

As it stands, the article switches back and forth between using "Judah" and "Judas." The article needs to be consistent in using one or the other. I would correct the problem myself, except I strongly favor "Judah Maccabee" to "Judas Maccabeus," and I don't want to move the article without discussion. I prefer "Judah Maccabee" on the grounds that it's closer to the original Hebrew, not to mention that it avoids any confusion betwen Judas from the Christian Bible and may be more common in modern English usage (I don't have proof of this, but it's at least more common among people I talk to). Can we get some kind of a consensus on this - which should it be and why? Aaronak (talk) 22:42, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the title of the page is 'Judas Maccabeus', but the article starts "Judah Maccabee ...." Either change the title of the page or the lead sentence. FurrySings (talk) 01:21, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting move to Judah Maccabee

Per WP:COMMONNAME. There are also 524,000 results for "Judah Maccabee" versus 189,000 results for "Judas Maccebeus". "Judah Maccabee" also bares a stronger resemblance to the Hebrew pronunciation. I had Jewish friends and teachers, and I never heard anyone say "Judas Maccabeus". --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it should be changed. A redirect can be left on Judas Maccabeus. - Lisa (talk - contribs) 02:06, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, no I meant were there any other articles about members of the Maccabee family here on Wikipedia? Seems there aren't other than Maccabees. I'm quite likely to strike through my vote, but I almost voted 'support' without bothering to check, and was quite surprised to find the Handel/Josephus spelling still more common even on Google Scholar, that's all. What does the SBL Style Book say? In ictu oculi (talk) 11:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know how to contact someone who would know what the SBL Handbook of Style says? --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:02, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move 1. Google search is often used to get a fair indication of the usage of various names. 2. The present title is Latin, which is used only in specific, limited sources. 3. "Judas" is widespread for example in relation to "Judas Iscariot", who lived in roman times, but "Judah" is more relevant in this case. 4. Compare the spelling of our article 1 Maccabees. Debresser (talk) 06:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

RfC – Suggested move to Judah Maccabee

At the moment, I don't feel that there aren't enough participants in the #Suggesting_move_to_Judah_Maccabee discussion in order to determine consensus. I already requested assistance from WikiProject Judaism and from WikiProject Military history, but it didn't generate enough participants. Some extra voices and some more insight would be helpful. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I found a complete copy on the web. It doesn't give guidance on Latinized names - simply to use whatever is consistent with a mainstream version. I expect for the Apocrypha that means NJB, for Josephus - Whiston's version. A punctuation example mentions "Judas returned on 21 Nisan 164 B.C.E. from his trip to . . . " but that is in passing. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:26, 23 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename Per Google hits. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ Talk Email 13:54, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep given the much larger number of results from Google books. Frankly, I'm more concerned with the lack of clarity in the article-- and the lack of references for whole sections as well. One example for people not familiar with the Hebrew Bible or the Christian Bible is the use of BCE to distinguish a period of time, without a wiki link to explain it. I personally found the article tedious reading at best. I'm also confused about the difference between comments here quoting Google hits vs. Google books. I'm not as qualified as I should be b/c of a lack of familiarity with these religions. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 14:24, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BCE is now wikilinked in the article. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The RfC has ended. It appears that there isn't any consensus to change the page's title. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 15:32, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Josephus?

The article says "Judah was the third son (Josephus) of...". What does this even mean? Does 'Josephus' mean third son? If so the linked article says nothing to that effect. Is it a bizarrely placed citation? This is very confusing and it would be helpful if anyone could clear it up. -Oreo Priest talk 15:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Naming conventions on WP for the Maccabees

Please see Talk:Eleazar Avaran#Naming conventions on WP for the Maccabees. Discussion: How should the original Maccabees, the father Mattathias and his five sons, John (Johanan), Simon, Judah (Judas), Eleazar (Elazar), Jonathan be known on Wikipedia? Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:17, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

La chevalerie de Judas Macabé

La chevalerie de Judas Macabé[1] is a 13th century french poem by Pierre du Riés (not Pierre du Ryer, the 17th century french dramatist).[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.48.192.101 (talk) 16:18, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If that's true, you just change "dramatist" to "poem" rather than removing the content entirely. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 16:23, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pierre du Ryer was a french dramatist, but he did not wrote La chevalerie de Judas Macabé. The author of la Chevalerie de Judas Macabé was a french clerk named Pierre du Riés, who lived in the second half of the 13th century. La chevalerie de Judas Macabé has nothing do with nationalism or the 17th century litterature. It is part of a larger medieval tradition who evolve around the christian memories of the maccabean martyrs and the figure of the Nine Worthies.198.48.192.101 (talk) 16:55, 19 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ ms. : Paris Bibl. nat. fr. 15104
  2. ^ La chevalerie de Judas Macabé, éd. J. R. Smeets, Assen, Van Gorcum (Van Gorcum's litteraire bibliotheek, 10), 1955, lxxxiv + 326 p.

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