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[ 0 => '{{Skip to talk}}', 1 => '{{ArticleHistory', 2 => '|action1=FAC', 3 => '|action1date=20:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)', 4 => '|action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elvis Presley/archive1', 5 => '|action1result=failed', 6 => '|action1oldid=83063082', 7 => false, 8 => '|action2=GAN', 9 => '|action2date=00:41, 7 July 2007 (UTC)', 10 => '|action2link=Talk:Elvis Presley/archive19#Good article nomination on hold', 11 => '|action2result=listed', 12 => '|action2oldid=146894542', 13 => false, 14 => '|action3=FAC', 15 => '|action3date=22:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)', 16 => '|action3link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elvis Presley/archive2', 17 => '|action3result=failed', 18 => '|action3oldid=160029510', 19 => false, 20 => '|action4=GAR', 21 => '|action4date=03:09, 25 November 2007 (UTC)', 22 => '|action4link=Talk:Elvis Presley/archive22#Delisted GA', 23 => '|action4result=delisted', 24 => '|action4oldid=173645743', 25 => false, 26 => '|action5=FAC', 27 => '|action5date=19:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)', 28 => '|action5link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elvis Presley/archive3', 29 => '|action5result=failed', 30 => '|action5oldid=340894651', 31 => false, 32 => '|action6=FAC', 33 => '|action6date=18:44, 23 February 2010 (UTC)', 34 => '|action6link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elvis Presley/archive4', 35 => '|action6result=promoted', 36 => '|action6oldid=345852096', 37 => false, 38 => '|topic=music', 39 => '|currentstatus=FA', 40 => '|maindate=January 8, 2012', 41 => '}}', 42 => '{{Talk header|search=y}}', 43 => '{{User:MiszaBot/config ', 44 => '| archiveheader = {{aan}}', 45 => '| maxarchivesize = 125K', 46 => '| counter = 31', 47 => '| archive = Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive %(counter)d ', 48 => '| algo = old(30d) ', 49 => '| minthreadsleft=4', 50 => '}}', 51 => '{{Auto archiving notice |bot=MiszaBot I |age=1 |units=month }}', 52 => '{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn', 53 => '|target= Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive index', 54 => '|mask= Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive <#> ', 55 => '|leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes |template= ', 56 => '}}', 57 => '{{American English}}', 58 => '{{Vital article|topic=People|level=3|class=FA}}', 59 => '{{WikiProjectBannerShell|collapsed=yes|1=', 60 => '{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=FA|musician-work-group=yes|filmbio-work-group=yes|filmbio-priority=high', 61 => '|listas=Presley, Elvis|core=yes|musician-priority=Top}}', 62 => '{{WikiProject Elvis Presley|class=FA|importance=Top|listas=Presley, Elvis}}', 63 => '{{WikiProject Pop music|class=FA|importance=Top}}', 64 => '{{WikiProject Tennessee|class=FA|importance=High|listas=Presley, Elvis}}', 65 => '{{WikiProject United States|class=FA|importance=Top|MS=yes|MS-importance=Top|USMusic=yes|USMusic-importance=top|portal1-name=United States|portal1-link=Selected culture biography/9}}', 66 => '{{WikiProject Nevada|class=FA|listas=Presley, Elvis|b1=yes|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes|b6=yes|importance=Mid|Las Vegas=yes|Las Vegas-importance=high}}', 67 => '{{WikiProject Rock music|class=FA|importance=Top|listas=Presley, Elvis}}', 68 => '{{WP1.0|v0.5=pass|class=FA|category=Arts|VA=yes}}', 69 => '}}', 70 => false, 71 => '{{On this day |date1=2004-04-21|oldid1=6718180|date2=2005-02-22|oldid2=13972237|date3=2007-08-16|oldid3=151704700|date4=2008-08-16|oldid4=231847197|date5=2009-08-16|oldid5=308242610|date6=2010-08-16|oldid6=379292203|date7=2010-12-21|oldid7=403555255|date8=2013-08-16|oldid8=568674590}}', 72 => '{{tmbox|type=style|text=[[Elvis Presley#Questions over cause of death|''Questions over cause of death'']] gives the balanced views of various experts. Please note that although Nichopoulos, Presley's main physician, was at the time ''"exonerated of criminal liability for the singer's death, ... His license was suspended for three months. It was permanently revoked in the 1990s after the Tennessee Medical Board brought new charges of over-prescription."'' Consensus among regular editors who judge it important to preserve a reliable, mainstream view in this encyclopedia article is that the discredited doctor's opinions, such as those published in his 2010 book, and including his attempt to emphasize constipation as the likely cause of death, should not be propagated by Wikipedia, and hence receive no coverage in this article.}}', 73 => '{{Portal|Elvis Presley}}', 74 => '{{find sources notice}}', 75 => false, 76 => '== Ancestry ==', 77 => false, 78 => 'I don't think it can be confidently asserted what his ancestry was. He certainly doesn't look like he had predominantly European ancestry. It is false to assume the official birth, death, and marriage records are correct, particularly in an era when illegitimacy and racism were burning issues, and when the family involved was poor and uneducated.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 03:23, 4 February 2015 (UTC)', 79 => false, 80 => ':Your personal opinions on Presley's appearance are of no relevance whatsoever to this article - and this is [[WP:NOTFORUM|not a forum]]. [[User:AndyTheGrump|AndyTheGrump]] ([[User talk:AndyTheGrump|talk]]) 21:41, 4 February 2015 (UTC)', 81 => false, 82 => 'You have misconstrued my comment.--[[User:Jack Upland|Jack Upland]] ([[User talk:Jack Upland|talk]]) 08:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)', 83 => false, 84 => ':The point is, what basis other than official records would you have this article use: hearsay and conjecture? While it may not be ''safe'' to assume the records are correct, neither is it safe to call it ''false'' without more reliable documentation proving it so, such as a DNA test showing predominantly non-European ancestry. Officially, no such test has been done, although someone claiming to have Presley's hair allegedly tested it for genetic health issues. Until there's a confirmed personal genome test for his ancestry, the official records are the very best we have—or can have. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 09:44, 1 April 2015 (UTC)', 85 => false, 86 => '== Deletion? ==', 87 => false, 88 => 'I assume the AfDM is an April Fool's joke, but can we delete it without going through a bureaucratic process? [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 07:45, 1 April 2015 (UTC)', 89 => ':I've just done it. Whatever the motive, it was clearly inappropriate. [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 08:24, 1 April 2015 (UTC)', 90 => false, 91 => '== A Few Important Questions...... (Piano, Arranger/Producer, Philanthropy) ==', 92 => false, 93 => '1) I don't understand for the life of me why on the front page here, "Piano" is missing from the list of instruments Elvis played, as it is clearly documented throughout his career that he played piano on a number of his records, including being documented in the highly acclaimed and credible book on his recording career "Elvis Presley: A Life in Music - The Complete Recording Sessions" by Ernst Jorgensen. He is also on film playing the piano live in concert. Why is that instrument not listed here for EP?', 94 => false, 95 => '2) It has also been documented in quite a number of books on EP, many which I've read, including the aforementioned book "The Complete Recording Sessions," that Elvis arranged and produced the large majority of his RCA non-movie soundtrack records. Steve Sholes was listed as producer (that's just how they did it then) of his 1950s to early '60s stuff, and sometimes with Chet Atkins, but it's been stated repeatedly by the studio engineers who worked with Elvis, and Elvis' own musicians themselves that very early into starting at RCA in '56, now away from the relaxed comfort of Sun Records and Sam Philips' guiding hand, Elvis realized quickly that he was getting virtually no help at all in the studio from Sholes, (who was just an A&R man) nor Atkins, and Elvis called up Sam Philips kinda nervous and asked him for some advice. Philips told Elvis that he (Elvis) knew what he wanted and that he had worked with him (Philips) long enough and had learned enough to take control himself, which by all accounts from people there in the studio with him, was exactly what Elvis did. Later on when Elvis hired Felton Jarvis as his "producer," Jarvis was there to take care of business, but he basically did exactly what Elvis wanted, from instruments, to back-up singers, to song arrangements - everything. It's talked about in the book I've mentioned, it's discussed in the big booklet that comes with the 1950s "King of Rock and Roll" box set, and it's discussed in several other books - right from the guys there with Elvis in the studio. Elvis was his own arranger and producer for much of his non-movie stuff. The '69 Memphis sessions were produced by Chips Moman, but even there Elvis had disagreements with him at times, but mostly let Moman have his way since he had agreed to that at the beginning. Elvis' gospel albums actually say "Arranged by Elvis Presley." This is even touched on in a YouTube video I watched recently, titled "AMS Lecture Series: Albin Zak -- Elvis Presley's "Hound Dog"." The professor of musicology in the video is giving a lecture and discusses this for a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame event. Should Elvis not be listed as an Arranger/Producer, even if only for his own music? He deserves that credit, I might add. Elvis was an extraordinary song interpreter, he could take something previously done and make it into something else completely different - and aside from his voice, his own arranging/producing skills are precisely what allowed him to do this so brilliantly throughout his career.', 96 => false, 97 => '3) Elvis was also known throughout his lifetime as being extremely generous and giving. Having grown up in abject poverty, he was particularly sensitive and caring about people who were struggling, once he had millions. He gave countless donations to not only many charities, and not only family and friends, but to strangers on the street that looked like they were in need. He bought cars for strangers, he paid their hospital bills, there are countless examples of Elvis' huge generosity - and Elvis did it because he wanted to, not because he wanted good press. He said himself "Money is just paper if it isn't used to help somebody." Maybe it's here and I missed it, but shouldn't this be here on his page as well?', 98 => false, 99 => 'I'm not just throwing this stuff out there willy nilly - these are facts, and they should be documented in any comprehensive encyclopedia entry on Elvis Presley. :) <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PatrioticHippie|contribs]]) 13 April 2015‎ 09:09 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->', 100 => false, 101 => ':1) See [[Template:Infobox_musical_artist#instrument]]: "Instruments listed in the infobox should be limited to ''only those that the artist is primarily known for using''. The instruments infobox parameter is not intended as a WP:COATRACK for every instrument the subject has ever used." Yes, Presley played piano, but he is not primarily known as a pianist. Arguably, he's not primarily known as a guitarist, either; but the image of Presley with a guitar is iconic, whereas the same cannot be said of Presley at the piano. His piano playing should nevertheless be discussed (briefly) in the article's text.', 102 => false, 103 => ':2) Presley was never credited as a producer or arranger on any of his records, and he never produced or arranged anything for anyone but himself. This, too, merits brief discussion in the article's text, but it wouldn't belong in the infobox.', 104 => false, 105 => ':3) To the extent that Presley's charitable giving is distinctive, I would agree that it merits discussion. It's part of his legend, and so belongs in the article. However, he is not known as a philanthropist. Per Wikipedia's article on [[philanthropy]], "charity relieves the pains of social problems, whereas philanthropy attempts to solve those problems at their root causes (the difference between giving a hungry man a fish, and teaching him how to fish for himself)." By this definition, Presley was charitable, not philanthropic. Presley was given to frequent and often substantial—but spontaneous, rather than planned—acts of generosity, targeted at the recipient's immediate need. There is an Elvis Presley Charitable Foundation, but it was not established until years after Presley's death. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 23:04, 15 May 2015 (UTC)', 106 => false, 107 => 'Alright, maybe "Philanthropy" is the wrong word here, fair enough. I won't argue the point. But Presley's massive generosity is known to anyone on the planet who knows a lick about him and his life, and it should've been in his page long ago. As for the rest, I'll try to make it brief, as with all due respect, I'm thinking it's pointless. I don't believe George Harrison was or is "primarily known" as a "sitar" player, and Elvis played piano live and in the studio far more than George ever played sitar, but sure enough "sitar" is there for George - as is John Lennon apparently "primarily known" as a "harmonica" player, despite using it on basically a handful of early Beatle tracks before it disappeared. Other examples are endless, but again, I won't argue the point. As for producer or arranger credits, everything I said earlier aside, Presley is clearly credited as "arranger" on his Gospel albums. But I get the feeling it doesn't matter. ( [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 06:53, 19 June 2015 (UTC) )', 108 => false, 109 => ': {{ping|PatrioticHippie}} I get the feeling from reading your previous contributions that you're having a difficult time connecting with something fundamental about Wikipedia and the way we build articles. It doesn't matter what you "know" or "believe" about the subject of the article, or what is "clear" and "true" to you personally. It only matters what is verifiable in reliable sources. In the case of subjects like Elvis where there is clearly more information out there than we can ever cover, we rely on what's stated in the ''preponderance'' of reliable sources to guide us in what to include in the article. If several reliable sources (and I mean published, vetted, well-thought-of sources, not blogs and amateur publications) state that Elvis was well-known for his piano playing, then I'd support writing more about it here. If not, it just doesn't go here. In the case of George Harrison, major works about his life state that the sitar was a well-known part of his musicianship, so there it is. But even so, doing something in one article does not mean we necessarily do it in other articles. We use judgement and consensus on each case. Vague statements about "quite a number of books" don't help us—please do post specific sources and page numbers so we can verify what you're claiming and make an informed decision. Please do "argue the point" but do so within Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. --[[User:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">'''Laser brain'''</font >]] [[User_talk:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">(talk)</font >]] 14:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)', 110 => false, 111 => '::Regarding the instrument credits: It is so common for western pop musicians to play at least some piano that the bar should be relatively high for including it in an infobox. Presley's piano style is neither distinctive nor influential. Conversely, it is exceedingly rare now, let alone prior to "Norwegian Wood," for a western musician to play sitar, and Harrison's use of the instrument was influential on many other westerners to develop an interest in Indian music in general as well as the sitar (and Harrison's teacher, Ravi Shankar) specifically. Lennon's harmonica falls somewhere in between: the instrument is played commonly enough, and Lennon's playing is common as well. But, the crude harmonica on "Love Me Do" was still a defining moment in the British Invasion, and it sent a lot of young folk who'd never heard of Little Walter scurrying to buy their first Hohner Marine Band. For that matter, Lennon's piano playing was more distinctive and influential than Presley's.', 112 => false, 113 => '::Anyway, I wouldn't get too hung up on the infobox. I don't see anyone arguing that this information doesn't belong in the body of the article, so long as you can cite quality sources and keep a sense of proportion in crafting an entry. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 22:48, 19 June 2015 (UTC)', 114 => false, 115 => 'I'm not concerned about his piano playing being discussed on his front page here, all I wanted to know is why "piano" is not listed in the infobox thingy under "Instruments" he played, as, I'll say it again, he played it; not regularly, but on occasion throughout his career, including live on film, and this fact is for just one of many sources, included in the book I've listed here previously, "Elvis Presley: The Complete Recording Sessions" by Ernst Jorgensen. Nothing "vague" about it, and I assure you it is a very-well thought out and painstakingly done, reliable, verifiable, and highly professional and beautiful hunk of publication, by a man who has complete RCA/BMG/EPE cooperation on anything Elvis, and first hand official access to Elvis' master RCA session tapes and studio recording log books. Short of sending you a copy of Jorgensen's book, or copies of other sources, I guess there isn't much I can do. At any rate, I wasn't aware prior that the artist has to be "known for" playing the particular instrument. Nothing "difficult" about it, that part simply makes no sense to me. Elvis' arranging activities are also discussed in the book, and as I said earlier, his gospel albums "clearly" list him as "Arranger" right on the album back covers. But I can't send copies of the albums and the book.', 116 => false, 117 => 'What qualifies as "verifiable" etc, that part I guess I find "vague" and obviously subjective, and I guess I simply don't understand the strictness of standards as to why he must be "known for" playing it, as he obviously to anyone who knows his career certainly played it enough to be simply listed as an instrument he played. It's not like he played it three or four times in 1956, and never again. Moreover, since originally writing this entry here, I've noticed under the "Instruments" box in Mick Jagger's article that it says he plays "guitar and piano" - and so by the apparent standards of this website which I've been given, Mick Jagger is "primarily known for" playing guitar and piano. In some other universe maybe, but not this one.', 118 => false, 119 => 'Also, again, Presley's huge generosity has been massively documented from the time he became famous, and it isn't even mentioned here. A very well-known and documented trait of the man. Are there no "reliable sources" for this either? Why not say there are no reliable sources that John Lennon wore glasses? No mention of EP's generosity alone is incredibly ridiculous, even without "Piano" not even being listed in the "Instruments" he played box. In fact, there doesn't seem to be much here at all about his extremely well-documented personal life regarding his hobbies and things he was known for - "huge generosity, his huge love of cars and collecting them, his airplanes, Karate, football, other things." Nope, it's just the smut - "drugs and his demise, his divorce, women, racial garbage etc..." A whole lot about the drugs. This website has been here too long now for someone like Elvis Presley's article to be so void of clear and obvious facts about the man to anyone who knows about him, other than plenty of the smutty parts. Anyone coming in here will certainly get plenty about that stuff, and if they don't know much about Elvis Presley in general, they'll at least take the smut away from their reading experience.', 120 => false, 121 => 'I'm not sure what the agenda is exactly in regard to Presley's article here, but it's curious to me. I know this page has been very well locked down through the years, and I've even tried to make small edits about small but well-documented facts, only to be deleted and brushed off with the "reliable, verifiable sources" stuff. After all of the various versions of this EP article, and all of the edits posted in, and taken back out, I simply cannot grasp how EP's hugely famous generosity is not in here after all these years, nor a simple acknowledgement, based on fact, of "Piano" being included in his "Instruments" box. No, he wasn't Elton John or Jerry Lee Lewis, but he played the instrument through his career more than enough to be credited for it in such a simple manner. I just don't get it. Thanks for the feedback. [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 10:12, 22 June 2015 (UTC)', 122 => false, 123 => ': {{ping|PatrioticHippie}} Once again, please do provide reliable sources and page numbers so we can verify and discuss your proposed edits. You don't seem to connect or agree with Wikipedia's policies, so perhaps this isn't the best hobby for you. In the event you just missed what I wrote previously and aren't being deliberately obtuse: It doesn't matter what you personally know or believe about the subject. It only matters what is verifiable in the preponderance of reliable sources. --[[User:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">'''Laser brain'''</font >]] [[User_talk:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">(talk)</font >]] 12:25, 22 June 2015 (UTC)', 124 => false, 125 => '::{{ping|PatrioticHippie}} There is no agenda regarding this article other than to keep the quality up. Yes, other articles exist that don't adhere to the same standards. They are ranked accordingly. Different articles are maintained by different editors: If I were working on the Mick Jagger article, I would object to the inclusion of piano and guitar in his infobox, as he is not known as an instrumentalist.', 126 => false, 127 => '::The "'reliable, verifiable sources' stuff" is not specific to this article or these editors: it is foundational to Wikipedia. If the facts you want to introduce into this article are well-documented, then by all means provide links to the documentation (from quality sources, not fan sites) along with those facts. If you don't, chances are that your edits will come right back out. As I've said before, there is room in this article to discuss Presley's generosity, his piano playing, his arranging, and his uncredited self-production. I simply haven't the time or inclination to write those entries at the moment. Presley's karate is part of his iconography, and should be mentioned—which explains why ''it already is.'' Owning airplanes, loving football—these things are mere trivia, which is why they aren't mentioned. On the other hand, there's sufficient cause to note that Presley loved Cadillacs, especially his famous custom pink 1955 Fleetwood 60. (As Elvis was known for giving away Cadillacs, this info could be included along with his reputation for generosity.)', 128 => false, 129 => '::The "smut"—"drugs and his demise, his divorce, women, racial garbage etc."—is essential information about Presley's life, death, fame, and historical import. In fact, a great deal about his alleged excesses and peccadilloes has been (repeatedly) excised from this article because it's mostly prurient and inconsequential. There, too, the editors have sought balance. Nevertheless, Presley is more famous for his drug use and relationships/liaisons than for his pianism and football fandom, and more historically important for the racial context of his work than for all those other things combined. Those are the primary things one has to consider when structuring an encyclopedia entry. For a list of Presley's airplanes and the name of his favorite football team, one can go to a fan page. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 22:11, 22 June 2015 (UTC)', 130 => false, 131 => '{{ping|Pstoller and --Laser brain}} As for Elvis playing "piano," when I have enough time, I'll try and collect some page numbers, quotes, info and whatnot from the book I mentioned, and other sources - and I'm sure the video of him playing "Unchained Melody" live is on YouTube. These things are the only "links" I'm capable of providing. I'm assuming you guys know about Elvis Presley, since you're apparently in charge of his article, so I'm still a bit curious about why I need to supply this on this particular point, but if that's the policy, so be it. Again, all I requested was "piano" be put into his "Instruments" infobox, not that his piano playing in particular needs to be discussed in the article. ', 132 => false, 133 => 'His producing/arranging of his own recordings, (non-movie stuff) I can dig up some of the same things as for piano. It would seem relevant in the article of a musical artist, especially since he's never gotten credit for it officially, except on his gospel albums - and I'm thinking that was probably because his gospel work was so close to his heart. Years ago, I always just assumed that Steve Sholes "produced" Elvis' earlier RCA stuff, since he was listed as Producer - but his producing duties as far as the music have since been documented in multiple sources as basically bringing in demos he thought Elvis might like, supplying any additional musicians or back-up vocalists etc that Elvis requested in particular, and sitting up in the control booth with a cup of coffee and watching the clock, while Elvis ran things down in the studio and the actual making of the records with complete final say. Later on, Felton Jarvis, who did apply himself more than Sholes in the actual "producing" effort in the studio, still mainly did the same things as Sholes above, and did exactly what Elvis wanted him to, with Elvis having the final say on the tracks and everything involved. Just something about Elvis' actual role in the Producing/Arranging process would be fair. As I said, I'll dig up some stuff on this - pages and quotes, etc, soon as I can. I would never just take something from a "fan site." LOL I understand the unreliability of that.', 134 => false, 135 => 'As to the rest, to follow on what you've said, Pstoller, it would be great to include a section on his "generosity," as Elvis' was/is legendary, and it should be pointed out in his Wiki article. Hopefully you can get that going at some point.', 136 => false, 137 => 'As far as his hobbies, same thing, I guess. His particular hobbies, he is well known for them. His planes, his Cadillacs and other cars, karate, whatever else. He loved his automobiles and he loved planes too - they are part of the Graceland tour, as some of his various automobiles are. A "Hobbies" section with all of this included would be a great and worthy addition to his article. [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 05:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)', 138 => false, 139 => ':{{ping|PatrioticHippie}} You're still missing the point. We ''know'' Presley played the piano; that's not a matter of dispute. However, it doesn't belong in the infobox because that field is reserved only for ''main'' instruments. The infobox has a higher, not lower, standard of inclusion than does the main article text. Think about the reverse: Would Elvis be mentioned in an article about rock & roll singing? Absolutely. Would he mentioned in an article about the role of the guitar in rock & roll? Quite possibly, as the image of Presley holding a guitar helped to popularize the instrument, though the sound of Scotty Moore made a bigger impact. But, in an article about rock & roll piano? Almost certainly not, other than to note that his early records had a key role in promoting the guitar over the piano as the music's dominant instrument.', 140 => false, 141 => ':Editors don't "own" articles. They tend to adopt them, but they can always be overruled—usually by broad consensus, sometimes by a formal vote. I happen to have a historical familial connection to Presley that, on the one hand, gives me a body of knowledge and some perspective (such as being able to confirm Steve Sholes' generally passive production role); and, on the other, would make it inappropriate for me to be "in charge" if it were possible (which it isn't). For the sake of maintaining objectivity, I write little if any of the text. So, I'm unlikely to get a new section going, but I encourage other editors to do so.', 142 => false, 143 => ':Volumes have been written about Elvis Presley. It should go without saying that the vast majority of what's in those books cannot be included in this article. Presley made the pink Cadillac an iconic rock & roll image; he did nothing similar for the Lockheed JetStar. That's the difference between what does and doesn't make the cut. As with the infobox, you don't cram in everything that might fit, but rather include only that which is essential. Just because something is true doesn't make it relevant. With that in mind, hobbies are generally of no significance in biographical encyclopedia entries. However, there is a Graceland article that mentions the planes, as they were/are on display there. That article, not this one, is the appropriate place for such information. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 07:51, 23 June 2015 (UTC)', 144 => false, 145 => '{{ping|Pstoller}} OK, I understand the point completely now. I guess ''my'' point ultimately was simply - Unfortunately, while "we" know Elvis played the piano, anyone coming in here who does not know a lot about him, and wants to know if he ever did, will leave here believing he did not, as unfortunately many people these days simply think "Wikipedia" anytime they think they would like to know something. I wish the standards for the rest of the articles here for musical artists were as strict as Elvis' article gets. Jerry Lee Lewis is apparently "known for" playing "guitar," and Buddy Holly is apparently known for playing not only piano, but the violin and the banjo, no less. Never seen any of that from either of them in my lifetime, but hot damn, good for Buddy and Jerry Lee. Well, at least "guitar" managed to squeak into Elvis' page, He actually had strings in his and everything. I don't agree with your standards in this case, but I do grasp the point you're making and what you're telling me. I don't mean any ill will towards you, but this annoys the hell outta me to the point where I'm just going to forget Elvis Presley has an article here. Again, it's too bad these stringent standards are not applied across the board here at Wiki, but I do appreciate and thank you for your feedback, as well as you saving me the time of doing what I said was going to in my previous entry. I guess there's no need. [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 14:24, 24 June 2015 (UTC)', 146 => false, 147 => '::{{ping|PatrioticHippie}} I appreciate your frustration, but I would suggest that your main takeaway should be that you've made valid suggestions for information to be included in the body of the article, which I hope you or some other editor will add. I am likewise frustrated that other Wikipedia articles don't adhere to the stringent standards that are, after all, published on Wikipedia for all editors to see. That said, I'm disinclined to tilt at those particular windmills, so I haven't much right to complain. I would hope your secondary takeaway would be that Wikipedians hold Elvis Presley in high enough regard to maintain his article at a high standard. With the addition of well-supported entries about Presley's piano playing, producing/arranging, and iconic relationship with Cadillacs, that standard will be higher still. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 22:26, 24 June 2015 (UTC)', 148 => false, 149 => 'Some sources:', 150 => '*"Lisa Marie: My father was always singing songs, playing the piano or guitar or listening to music." David Ritz, ed., ''Elvis by the Presleys'' (London: Arrow Books, 2005), p.38. ', 151 => '*"Elvis also was expanding his music horizons. He began to teach himself to play the piano. He had many chances to use the pianos at his church and his school. Whereas he struggled to learn the guitar, he found that '''he had a natural gift for playing the piano'''. He learned quickly and soon felt that '''the piano was his best instrument. In fact, throughout his career, he never rated himself very highly as a guitarist'''." John Micklos Jr, '' "I want to entertain People": Elvis Presley'' (Melrose Park, IL: Lake Book Manufacturing, 2011), p. 25.', 152 => '*"Elvis sat down at the piano in the lounge area in front of the court. He began to play gospel songs and sing. Elvis played the piano by ear. He had never had lessons. '''The piano, not the guitar, was his natural instrument'''." Joel Williamson, ''Elvis Presley: A Southern Life'' (Oxford University Press, 2014), p.316. [[User:Onefortyone|Onefortyone]] ([[User talk:Onefortyone|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2015 (UTC)', 153 => false, 154 => '::{{ping|Onefortyone}} OK, now I'm a bit confused. I'm not quite sure what took place, but I just saw this, and then I noticed that "piano" is back in EP's instrument infobox. Does this mean it will now stay there? [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 04:12, 26 June 2015 (UTC)', 155 => false, 156 => ':::As I said before: no editor owns an article. Entries come and go frequently. I've given my rationale for piano being out (though I have never removed it myself); Onefortyone has given his for putting it back in. Rather than edit-warring, I'm waiting to see what other editors have to say. On the one hand, I stand by what I've already said. On the other, it makes a lot more sense than putting "violin" in Buddy Holly's infobox. So, it depends whether we go by written policy or common practice. [[User:Pstoller|Pstoller]] ([[User talk:Pstoller|talk]]) 08:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)', 157 => false, 158 => '::{{ping|Pstoller}} Well, FWIW, I may try and add some additional stuff here to accompany Onefortyone's to further support and validate "piano" being in EP's article, which I think it should be, and couldn't believe it had been removed. Is Elvis "primarily known for" doing "country" music, or "blues?" No, but he certainly grew up on a lot of both, alongside so many other styles, and he certainly recorded/performed lots of both. Both were a deep part of his musical make-up, and it would be ludicrous to remove them from his "music genre" box. I would think the same logic would apply with "piano" and Elvis as well, as piano was actually an important part of Elvis' life in music. Aside from Elvis both actually and factually playing piano on various studio tracks throughout his career, as well as live on occasion, and also a lot at home - anyone who has any real knowledge of Elvis and his career, knows he did so - thus isn't Elvis "known for" playing piano? Anyone else who doesn't know much about him, would never know by being here that he did so, if that fact were not here. I've always thought encyclopedias were meant to be informative about their subjects. I understand your strict standards, but I'd like to believe this upholds that, and this is kinda splitting hairs here in this case with EP, I have to think - especially in light of so many other ridiculous infoboxes, like the ones I've mentioned. [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 09:31, 26 June 2015 (UTC)', 159 => '::: {{ping|PatrioticHippie}} This is why some editors are against the inclusion of infoboxes in articles at all. They tend to be lightning rods for arguments that distract from the content of the actual article. The infobox is meant to distill information from the article prose and provide "at-a-glance" facts about the subject. Genre and instruments are two of the most oft-argued fields because some editors favor listing lots of things (i.e. everything they've dabbled in) but community discussions have always landed on listing only the things the subject is primarily known for. Many musicians are multi-instrumentalists and dabble in multiple genres of music, but that doesn't mean we need to list many of them in the infobox. We list what they are best known for, and people can read the article to get information on other things the subject did (again, citing reliable sources). That being said, I think {{u|Onefortyone}} presents a good case for piano being included in the infobox. --[[User:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">'''Laser brain'''</font >]] [[User_talk:Laser_brain|<font color="purple">(talk)</font >]] 11:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC)', 160 => false, 161 => '::::{{ping|Laser brain}} I completely understand editors not wanting to just throw into the infobox every single instrument an artist may have dabbled with a couple of times. I agree with that rule of thought and have expressed it myself here in this discussion in regard to others' infoboxes that have instruments I myself and I think most have never heard of them playing or seen them play at all, or very, very little of, if at all. So we're in agreement there. If I were here calling for "bass" to be put into Elvis' infobox because he played it on one track ("You're So Square, Baby, I Don't Care"), it would be ridiculous. But I agree with Onefortyone that "piano" is not such a case for Elvis, and that it firmly belongs in his infobox. [[User:PatrioticHippie|PatrioticHippie]] ([[User talk:PatrioticHippie|talk]]) 02:32, 27 June 2015 (UTC)', 162 => false, 163 => '== Conspiracy Theories ==', 164 => 'I am quite surprised that there isn't a section on conspiracy theories regarding his death. I am not suggesting any of them are true, but theories relating to his death would have to be some of the most notable conspiracy theories in American popular culture, along with JFK and Monroe. Did there used to be a section which was later deleted? [[User:Simgrant|Simgrant]] ([[User talk:Simgrant|talk]]) 03:30, 28 May 2015 (UTC)', 165 => false, 166 => ':I'm guessing you're talking about the stories of him faking his death. There is a paragraph under the subsection [[Elvis_Presley#Final year and death|Final year and death]]. I suppose it could be expounded upon (with source), but a whole section - I don't so. --[[User:Musdan77|Musdan77]] ([[User talk:Musdan77|talk]]) 02:29, 29 May 2015 (UTC)', 167 => false, 168 => '=== 'In The Ghetto' ===', 169 => false, 170 => 'Wasn't 'In The Ghetto' a major hit for Elvis in 1969? I see no mention of it. Of course, the article is already very long but I remember this as a major change of tone for Elvis at least on AM radio [[User:Seki1949|Seki1949]] ([[User talk:Seki1949|talk]]) 07:05, 11 July 2015 (UTC)' ]