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Archive 1Archive 2

History

Why is there a tremendous lack of recent history? I doubt Alabama became uninteresting. Willie Stark 20:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure many people would like to fill that vacancy, but before they can we need to know where to put it. --ArtifexCrastinus 19:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There is already a "History" section started. Just jump in and add away. Thanks for your help.--JodyB yak, yak, yak 22:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

What date exactly in 1861 did Alabama join the Confederacy? .--Kennin< —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.197.26.136 (talk) 16:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

County numbers

What is the state numerical value of each county? /* History */ Alabama has state issued license plates that counties are idenitified by a numerical value eg. Jefferson County=1; Mobile County=2; Montgomery County=3; Madison County=4 and Baldwin County=5 Is there a list of each county with it's numerical value? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.191.212.31 (talk) 18:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Tag numbers 1-3 are the top 3 counties in population (Jefferson, Mobile & Montgomery). The rest of the 67 counties are in alphabetical order. I think this is too detailed to go in this article. One on the Alabama DOT would be more like it maybe. -Fnlayson (talk) 18:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
There's more on this at List of counties in Alabama. --Dystopos (talk) 20:58, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Events

List of events should include associated cities. --Parkwells (talk) 13:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Famous Alabamians

Should the list of Famous Alabamians include only Alabama NATIVES (i.e. place of birth), and change the section heading to say such, or also those who obtained their fame while residents of Alabama? I'm thinking of such recently removed individuals as George Washington Carver who was a Missouri native, but rose to fame in Alabama and lived here for 47 years. I propose we should include such people as they may be more closely associated with the state than those who where born in Alabama, then quickly moved away with no further ties. Thoughts? Civilengtiger (talk) 05:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

When I edited the article to add the wiki links, I checked each person to see if they were born in AL. I was thinking of each person as being NATIVE and didn't consider them as just living there for a period of time or becoming famous there. Whatever is decided, I'm good with it. Jmerchant29 (talk) 06:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to add back George Washington Carver and Booker T. Washington to the list. They lived most of their lives in AL even though they were not born there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmerchant29 (talk • contribs) 13:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Looks great to me, thanks for the thoughtful consideration and contributions Jmerchant29. Best wishes.Civilengtiger (talk) 16:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Mississippians

I changed the unreferenced popular myth that the Mississippian culture was of Mesoamerican origin, with a few lines about the importance of Moundville to the understanding of the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex. It's all backed up with citations. Hope I haven't stepped on anyones toes, but this is the current concensus amongst historians and archaeologists.Heironymous Rowe (talk) 06:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

SAR 21

Hi y'all! Just wondering, does anyone have reference or news pertaining to the SAR 21 being use by SWAT team(s) in Alabama? Please let me know if you do, thanks! ...Dave1185 (talk) 06:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

WikiMiniAtlas

The WikiMiniAtlas, at the top of the article, has a link to a term at bottom left. I have tried to find a way to have it corrected, but I am informed this may take weeks or months. I propose that the {{Coor}} be removed, periodically checked, then restored when the mistake is corrected. Is there any objections? cygnis insignis 15:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Condeleeza Rice mentioned twice

In the famous Alabamians section, Condeleeza Rice is credited more than once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.168.113 (talk) 03:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. It's fixed now. Qqqqqq (talk) 03:49, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

In re: 1968 election

Wallace was the official Democratic nominee in Alabama in '68. If one voted a straight Democratic ticket that year, their presidential vote went for Wallace. To vote for Humphrey, they had to cast a vote for "National Democratic" which was an African-American political movement in Alabama at the time.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=1&year=1968&f=0&off=0&elect=0

Also, in 1964, Johnson wasn't even on the ballot in the state. http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=1&year=1964&f=0&off=0&elect=0


In 1948, Thurmond was the official Democratic candidate and Truman was kept off the ballot entirely.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=1&year=1948&f=0&off=0&elect=0


To this end, I feel that the table needs to be edited to reflect this fact.

--Genovese12345 (talk) 04:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Never had a major league sports team

Sentence reads "Alabama does not have a major professional sports team." This borders on Appeal to pity!  :) It is WP:POV to perform a negative inventory on what is not in Alabama that "someone" has thought necessary to apologize for or imagines that the state is lacking. This would be a huge list if carried to extremes: "has the Olympics ever been held here"? With 45 presidents and 50 states, you'd think an Alabaman would have been president by now! No national monuments, etc. etc. lst's inventory what is there instead of WP:POV suggesting what should be there. Student7 (talk) 20:54, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Just removed some of this POV type wording: "Alabama is the second largest state by population that does not have a major professional sports team." -Fnlayson (talk) 23:34, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Users keep adding this type stuff without any kind of a reference. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
I disagree, and think this is fair. It is WP:Notable that a state with a large population doesn't have a major league sports franchise; if this is not so then there are a whole host of edits across Wikipedia that need to be made, starting with this one: U.S. states without major sports teams. It's also a pair of simple facts: Alabama is, in fact, the second-most populous state without a major sports franchise; both Alabama's population and the fact that it has no such franchise are listed on this very page. Furthermore, the significance of the "second-most populous state" formulation is that many reasonable observers would conclude that Alabama is indeed, the most populous such state, by dint of the fact that the Virgina page lists, in almost exactly the same wording, that it is the most populous such state with the caveats that the Washington Redskins and Washington Capitals are headquartered in Virginia. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
OK, the Alabama sentence was readded. The Virginia details were omitted as being irrelevant to this article. -Fnlayson (talk) 14:15, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
I explained the relevance and would appreciate an actual response. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 06:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
The explanation for removing is already provided with the post at the top of this section. -Fnlayson (talk) 12:43, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Inventorying what a place doesn't have is counterproductive and not useful IMO. There are 50 states. Not all of them are going to have major league teams, or major Coast Guard Stations, or Parks for Grizzly Bears, or Disneyworlds, or Statues of Geronimo, Eiffel towers, or whatever. The list of what every place doesn't have is sufficient to bore any reader. Which is why we don't list them. Thede are not WP:TOPIC. Student7 (talk) 03:00, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Look, there are three arguments going on here:
1) There are no references -- This is absurd; everything in question (the absence of a franchise, the relative populations of the states in question) are simple facts and don't need attribution.
2) The absence of something isn't notable -- Obviously in this case it is, if people keep adding it, it's noted on several states' and cities' pages, and there's an entire page that's five years old devoted to the subject.
3) The Virginia details are irrelevant to Alabama -- These are indeed relevant as many reasonable observers would conclude that it's appropriate to consider Alabama the largest state without a major franchise, due to the headquartering of the Washington teams. This argument has not been replied to, just labeled as irrelevant and dismissed out-of-hand. I repeat, I would appreciate and actual response. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 19:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Given that there's a whole section on professional sports teams in Alabama, mentioning that there are no major league teams seems appropriate. I don't think it necessary to include the extra detail about it being the largest such state by population. Perhaps that information is best conveyed by a link to U.S. states without major sports teams, where that condition can be explained in more detail. --Dystopos (talk) 19:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I also edit many cities. Some of them don't have "major league sports teams." Poor them. Again we have Appeal to pity. Feel sorry for poor us!  :( Come on! Let's present what Alabama has and stop trying to inventory what they don't have. They don't have much of a seacoast. Mountains are mangy by Western US standards, some people may not like the food (I about gagged on one restaurant's idea of "cheese grits"- a slab of cheese, unmelted, on instant grits!). Inventory that! (whine). Cross state roads stink. Except for turnpikes, lots of roads stink. Too hot in summer; too cool in winter. Lousy ballet. Lousy opera.
Just present the facts. Facts are not what you don't have, they consist of what you have. "Fewer grade A chefs than any other state east of the Mississippi" is not a credible inventory, however accurate it may be! We don't inventory the fact that Wikipedia has fewer people over 6'6" than any other major encyclopedia no matter how much space it is given on what passes for "news" on television. If editors would spend sufficient time in inventorying what states and municipalities have, there would be a lot more informative articles. I don't care to hear that Istanbul has never won a superbowl! There are a lot of interesting things in Istanbul that are worth inventorying. Student7 (talk) 23:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The absence of a thing is indeed a fact, and often a notable one. Among other things, quantum physics, social science research, and espionage all depend on analyzing what's missing. And for the third time, the existence of this page demonstrates notability in this particular instance. As for accusations of bias, I think this reveals more about the reader than the writer. The fact of this absence can inspire a person to pity ("Alabama deserves a team and is unfairly deprived"), contempt ("something's wrong with Alabama for not being able to support a team"), or anything in between. I came at it from pure curiosity -- one might expect major franchises to track directly with population sizes, does the data support that? -- but this is immaterial. How any given person interprets facts is irrelevant to their existence. I would appreciate fewer casual accusations of POV problems; I'm clearly not some partisan with an axe to grind. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 02:43, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
I appreciate your agreement with the fallacy Appeal to pity. But your agreement doesn't seem to have translated to Wikipedia policy which is to eliminate fallacies from textual material. My main concern is overloading articles with negative inventories. This is not the first I have read BTW. Another city thought they were "notable" (non-notable? infamous? I don't know what they were trying to achieve) because they didn't have a particular fast food chain represented in the city! In their case, they were glad they didn't have it. They had picketed to keep it out! Encyclopedic concerns prevailed and they are not listed for that. I have not seen a negative inventory yet succeed. A comprehensive list of what Alabama (and every other state and place) does not have would be much too large and uninteresting.
The idea of any article is to put the best foot forward for the subject. Not the worst foot forward. It sounds a bit WP:COATRACK and WP:SOAPBOX as well. After which, the subject/topic may be exposed to criticism. I suppose if someone really important were to criticize Alabama for discouraging a major league team.... In other words, it is gratuitously negative as construed.
I'm not too thrilled with this and may renege, but how about, "Out of 50 states, there are x states with no major league sports teams, of which Alabama is one." With a real solid reference from a source outside Alabama? This is good only if there are less than (say) ten states or so without any major league teams. If there are 15 or 20, it's hardly a rare case.
Also, does "major league sports teams" only include your definition of football, baseball, basketball and soccer, or does it include table tennis, lacrosse, rugby, etc. (In other words, someone else's more inclusive definition). That would simply create an ongoing problem with wording that it would be nice to avoid, and just another example of why negative inventories should not occur. Incidentally, I am not the only person you would have to convince!  :) Student7 (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The only fallacy being engaged in here is the slippery slope argument that inclusion of one significant absence will lead to this absurd scenario of comprehensive negative inventories. The idea of an article is to put neither the best nor the worst foot forward, it's to state the notable facts. The notion of it as Coatrack or Soapbox is frankly risible -- it's a single line entry that speaks to a directly connected fact about the state. I repeat, interpreting this as negative, much less gratuitously so, says much more about the reader than the writer.
As for which sports are major, it's the definition given here and here. If you have a problem with that definition, take it up on those discussion pages. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 14:57, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Actually, notability for one article does not signify relevance for another. Otherwise they'd all be one big monster article. Which is why we try to confine articles to essentials. And why articles have boundaries.
And we do put the best foot forward as a prelude to the rest of the article, otherwise no article. "Time said Jim was a wonderful man." Now, and only now, can another editor add, "Newsweek said he stinks." But using the last statement alone is rather WP:COATRACK. Student7 (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
Of course notability and relevance are not the same thing. Relevance doesn't seem to be in question; obviously a fact concerning Alabama is relevant to the Alabama article. My edit has been (I think) described as not a notable fact, I've addressed why it is both notable and a fact, and haven't heard an on-point reply to either. As I said, no serious observer would characterize a one-line observation of a fact that's directly connected to the article as Coatrack. I'm also confused as to whether you think my edit is defending Alabama (your "Appeal to Pity" language) or attacking it (your "not best foot" language). I actually think that speaks pretty well to its neutrality.
Let's start over and try to work to a compromise. I would like to make this the opening paragraph of the section, before the table:
"Alabama is the second-most populous U.S. state without a major professional sports league franchise (it is the most populous if one considers Virginia to be the home of the NFL's Washington Redskins and NHL's Washington Capitals, which have their practice facilities and operational headquarters in Northern Virginia). Alabama has several professional teams including four minor league baseball teams, and one Arena Football League team."
Please list any objections you have to this, with your reasons fully articulated, and I will attempt to either address them or propose alternate wording to satisfy them. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 03:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Question: How many states do not have a major league team? (forget size for now please). Student7 (talk) 01:04, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
25. Hythlodayalmond (talk) 18:08, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems to me that "Like 24 other states, Alabama does not have a major league sports team" sounds pretty lame. Which is why it was suggested that we "spice it up" and say, "The second largest...." I don't know. Hard for me to get enthused. Alaska is probably the "largest!"  :) My point being that more than size comes into account here. Population of a single large city would matter more, IMO, than the population of the state itself, if widely distributed in an otherwise large state. Phoenix, for example. SLC. It seems to me that the "size of the state" is a canard which is WP:OR in this case. Because we would be introducing state size as a criterion, which is probably untrue and misleading. Student7 (talk) 14:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Alabama has several well known College sports teams, not major league teams. Mnemnoch (talk) 05:47, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
At this point I'm pretty baffled as to what your objection is. I think it's useful from a social science perspective to note the relationship of Alabama's population to its absence of major league sports teams. I've listed several reasons why it's notable, a demonstrable fact, and in line with several other Wikipedia entries, and haven't received a meaningful response to any of them, just an ever-shifting morass of picayune complaints. I asked for you to list your objections in a format where I could respond or modify my proposed wording, and it was ignored. I'd like to seek compromise but I'm convinced at this point you're not interested in it. Therefore I'm implementing my revision and will defend it until an administrator intervenes to settle this.Hythlodayalmond (talk) 07:27, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Politics and government

Needs to be updated for 2008 election.--Parkwells (talk) 02:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Venues, etc.

These are all local venues. They need to be deleted. They should be placed in local articles only. Student7 (talk) 14:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

  • I remade the section into a gallery highlighting specific sites and events. In my opinion the photos do a good job of illustrating the cultural attractions of Alabama without going into detail better placed in the individual articles. (And this way we're not repeating the same information in two places under 3 headings) --Dystopos (talk) 23:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Sports

Yellowhammer

The state bird of Alabama is not the one referenced at Yellowhammer, which is, as it says in the very first line of the article, a Eurasian bird. The bird referenced on the Alabama official website at http://archives.alabama.gov/emblems/st_bird.html is at Northern_flicker, but is commonly referred to in the South as a yellowhammer. The same editor redirected Yellow-shafted_Flicker, a common synonym for the Northern Flicker, to Yellowhammer. I don't want to get into a revert war with anyone, so I'm posting this here. Moioci (talk) 22:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Seem like the Yellowhammer article really should be covering the Yellow-shafted Flicker (or vice versa). I question if "Yellowhammer" is the most common name for the Eurasian Emberiza citrinella. Both Yellowhammer and Northern Flicker articles are poorly referenced so it is difficult to say which details are correct. -fnlayson (talk) 22:38, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Regressive tax?

The state tax may well be regressive, but didn't seem to be demonstrated here. The ref seemed to be offhand, more of a slur than anything substansive. It needed improvement. I looked up the tax tables which seem to say that low salaries are taxed 4% or so, and higher salaries up to $100k are taxed at 5%. This is not demonstably regressive. But if there is no tax above that, then yes, I suppose so!

In any event the subsection needs to be enhanced. Okay for maybe a year or two ago, but needs beefing up with a little more concrete facts. "People making $10K are taxed at n%, while people earing $100K are taxed at y%." That is something everyone can understand as regressive, IFF it is regressive!

Also, the tone of the subsection tends to be a bit WP:SOAPBOXy. While the facts may not change, the wording should. We should not be indicating that Alabama "needs" to change. That is the current tone, and it is clearly WP:POV for that reason. Student7 (talk) 16:30, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Clearly state income tax is not regressive. Sales tax tends to be regressive since lower income earners generally spend a higher percentage of their income on food. Alabama's sale tax rate is higher that some states but has lower property than many other states too. It would take a fair bit of work to combine all the taxes and compare/rank the states. In any event, simply saying "Alabama's tax structure is one the most regressive in the United States" without some explanation or context is not good. -fnlayson (talk) 16:51, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Alabama's income tax may be "more" regressive than in other states, because the minimum taxable income is lower and the system of tax rates and requirements favors those whose wealth comes from sources of income other than wages (capital gains, rents, perquisites, inheritences, etc). And of course, income tax is only one source of revenues. With its relatively paltry property taxes and high sales taxes, the overall system is rather regressive. That said, Wikipedia should naturally be attributing its characterizations to independent sources. --Dystopos (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Birmingham/ UAB Hospital

UAB hospital is not the only Level I Trama center in the state, Huntsville Hospital is one as well. There may be others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.73.88.43 (talk) 08:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Combine economy into a state economy section

Economy is explained by city: Birmingham, Huntsville, Mobile, Montgomery, and Tuscaloosa. These need to be merged into a state section. It may be necessary to state a city when explaining "iron", for example, but that should be a byproduct of the discussion. Right now, it is a bottom-up explanation instead of a top-down, which is should be. This way is regionally chauvanistic. Student7 (talk) 02:09, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Just did this. So it looks okay superficially. The merger was a "bit" rocky and still needs smoother integration. But at least it is Alabama now and not merely a collection of cities.
Incidentally, most of the previous city writeups were great and should go there if not there already. Student7 (talk) 13:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

File:Uab campus night shot .jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Secession

An editor has consistently reverted my simplification of "declared its secession" to "seceded" since "seceded" is "quite possibly" pov. What in the world??!!!! The state seceded. Why use a contorted way of saying that? Let's make it simple for foreigners. And what is the problem, anyway? Student7 (talk) 20:03, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

The user seems to be claiming succession did not happen, since it was later deemed illegal/null by the US Supreme Court. -Fnlayson (talk) 20:17, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

at will state employment

I would like to know how I can get this state transition from an at will employment state prefix:Talk:Alabama/" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.115.230 (talk) 15:48, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Graduation rate

Like all statistics on the South, education tends to look worse than the rest of the country. Sometimes (Mississippi) this is correct. It may or may not be for Alabama. The reason is that when whites are compared to whites ("up north") they often do fairly well. Similarly, when blacks are compared to blacks nationwide, they often do better than average. The cards tend to be stacked against the South when comparing everybody in one big melting pot, which the South is not. Student7 (talk) 21:10, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Famous Alabamians

Henry Louis (Hank) Aaron baseball player, Mobile Ralph Abernathy civil rights activist, Linden Tallulah Brockman Bankhead actress, Huntsville Hugo LaFayette Black jurist, Harlan Nat “King” Cole entertainer, Montgomery Marva Collins educator, Monroeville Bobby Goldsboro entertainer, Dothan William Crowford Gorgas army officer, physician, Mobile Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald writer, Montgomery Lionel Hampton jazz musician, Birmingham William Christopher Handy composer, Florence Emmy Lou Harris singer, Birmingham Kate Jackson actress, Birmingham Percy Lavon Julian inventor, Montgomery Helen Adams Keller author, educator, Tuscumbia Coretta Scott King civil rights leader, Marion Harper Lee writer, Monroeville Carl Lewis track athlete, Birmingham Joe Louis boxer, Lexington Willie Mays baseball player, Westfield Jim Nabors actor, Sylacauga Jesse Owens athlete, Danville Rosa Parks civil rights activist, Tuskegee Jimmie Rodgers singer, Geiger David Satcher surgeon general, Anniston Waldo L. Semon inventor, Demopolis George Wallace governor, Clio William Weatherford (Red Eagle) Creek indian leader Heather Whitestone Miss America, Dothan Hank Williams recording artist, Georgiana Courtney Cox, actor, Mountain Brook Lionel Ritchie, recording artist, Tuskegee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.64.36.158 (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

See List of people from Alabama. Student7 (talk) 20:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Graduation rate

Like all statistics on the South, education tends to look worse than the rest of the country. Sometimes (Mississippi) this is correct. It may or may not be for Alabama. The reason is that when whites are compared to whites ("up north") they often do fairly well. Similarly, when blacks are compared to blacks nationwide, they often do better than average. The cards tend to be stacked against the South when comparing everybody in one big melting pot, which the South is not. Student7 (talk) 21:10, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Famous Alabamians

Henry Louis (Hank) Aaron baseball player, Mobile Ralph Abernathy civil rights activist, Linden Tallulah Brockman Bankhead actress, Huntsville Hugo LaFayette Black jurist, Harlan Nat “King” Cole entertainer, Montgomery Marva Collins educator, Monroeville Bobby Goldsboro entertainer, Dothan William Crowford Gorgas army officer, physician, Mobile Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald writer, Montgomery Lionel Hampton jazz musician, Birmingham William Christopher Handy composer, Florence Emmy Lou Harris singer, Birmingham Kate Jackson actress, Birmingham Percy Lavon Julian inventor, Montgomery Helen Adams Keller author, educator, Tuscumbia Coretta Scott King civil rights leader, Marion Harper Lee writer, Monroeville Carl Lewis track athlete, Birmingham Joe Louis boxer, Lexington Willie Mays baseball player, Westfield Jim Nabors actor, Sylacauga Jesse Owens athlete, Danville Rosa Parks civil rights activist, Tuskegee Jimmie Rodgers singer, Geiger David Satcher surgeon general, Anniston Waldo L. Semon inventor, Demopolis George Wallace governor, Clio William Weatherford (Red Eagle) Creek indian leader Heather Whitestone Miss America, Dothan Hank Williams recording artist, Georgiana Courtney Cox, actor, Mountain Brook Lionel Ritchie, recording artist, Tuskegee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.64.36.158 (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

See List of people from Alabama. Student7 (talk) 20:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

History: 1960-2000

Any particular reason the latest history section a) has hardly anything not pertaining to civil rights and b) ends over a decade ago? Can we get an update, please? 50.130.8.41 (talk) 03:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome to expand/update it yourself. Just keep in mind that the history section here is only an overview, the full version is at History of Alabama. You are correct though, the section pretty much addresses rural white dominance and civil rights only; it really needs to address many other subjects also. Altairisfar (talk) 12:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Christianity picture

This billboard along I-65 north of Millbrook attempts to get people to church by fear.

It seems to me that this picture ought to be in the religion section to underscore the dominance of Christianity in Alabama and show something unique to Alabama. I haven't yet figured out how best to work it in. -- ke4roh (talk) 04:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that this image is the best way to represent the nature of Christianity in the state. This particular image definitely represents one evangelical POV, but not necessarily the majority view. It is not unique to Alabama, you find signs of this genre all over the Deep South. While this image may be illustrative of how some Christians in Alabama attempt to force their views on others, for the main article the text is a better, neutral representation. Altairisfar (talk) 13:28, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
I almost agree with you! Roy Moore and his electoral success drives me to think it's less POV and more representative of the state of the state. Perhaps the caption I hastily scribbled isn't the best, but that is easily fixed. An alternative image to convey more precisely the blending of the Christianity with Alabama's government would be the wooden plaque Moore hung in his courtroom before he ran for State Supreme Court. I found this non-free picture of the stone monument in the Supreme Court building. I have asked for permission to use it. -- ke4roh (talk) 18:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Permission granted. See File:Roy_Moore's_Ten_Commandments_monument.jpg. -- ke4roh (talk) 14:22, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I think that the best thing to do on the subject is to convert the Religion in Alabama link from a redirect to the religion section on this page into an in-dept article that covers religion in Alabama in general, plus the the undue influence Christianity has over our state institutions. Even Alabama Public Television was covered recently in the news for an alleged Christian bias with the appointment of a new director. That way, all aspects can be covered well enough to be balanced in a way that space won't allow here in the main article. Altairisfar (talk) 17:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Agreed. Would you like to take the first pass? -- ke4roh (talk) 19:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Without giving my opinion about whether the photo is appropriate for this article or not, I would like to argue against the idea that it is "representative". I grew up attending one of the largest Southern Baptist congregations in the state and our pastor more than once made fun of this well-known sign (or, specifically its predecessor) and got plenty of chuckles. If the simplistic message of the sign isn't even representative of the Southern Baptists in Alabama, I can't think how it could be any more representative of the state's broader spectrum of religious attitudes. --Dystopos (talk) 00:42, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
P.S. If you want to formulate a description of the importance of religion in Alabama, I suggest that Roy Moore's electoral results don't offer enough context. Perhaps a brief article compiled by eminent historian Wayne Flynt would be more useful: http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1617 --00:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Dystopos, for sharing your experience, and for the link to the article. Now we just need to scare up a few more sources and we can make a proper article of our own. -- ke4roh (talk) 02:03, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Ke4roh, I'd be happy to help with an article for religion in Alabama, but I don't know if I can do much at present. My on-wiki time has been very limited lately due to other commitments. My focus is writing articles for Alabama places on the NRHP (which I haven't had time to work on in almost two months) and attempts to copyedit and add/fix references for what is already contained within the Alabama article. I have little interest in anything pertaining to matters of faith, but if you start it I'll certainly try to help. Altairisfar (talk) 10:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Sweet Home Alabama?

this article shood have the song Sweet Home Alabama in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgsho (talk • contribs) 00:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Why?Chagallophile (talk) 18:48, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Where is the culture ? Songs, artists, literature and so on ? Gujjo (talk) 17:41, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Improvements to offer

I did some sprucing of this article as some improvement I'm trying to do to US state and related articles. This article is pretty good and thorough, with no obvious glaring issues, but there are means of improvement. I'm just suggesting these as a general recommendation that anyone, including myself, may consider adding.

1. The article seems to lack a characterization of the people of the state, which I see in other similar articles. It talks a lot about the state's famous history, but it lacks a more modern Culture section like most states have. A Culture section made by those familiar with the state would help talk about the population beyond just demographics.

2. The History section ends abruptly after the 1960s. I know not much has happened of significance since, but it might be useful to follow up and perhaps explain briefly how racial issues have evolved since or mention other events.

3. The Economic section doesn't talk at all about poverty, wages and wage gaps, or social security, which seems like information any state should have. The healthcare section is also rather short; a mention of health insurance figures in Alabama might help.

4. A lot of states have tables listing how the state voted in presidential elections. Alabama is missing this, and I think it would prove useful, especially when the Law section describes Alabama's shift from Democratic to a Republican stronghold. Scarlettail (talk) 18:41, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Sports

@Fnlayson: I wanted to share some ideas on how to improving the sports section. I propose adding some text discussing the popularity and success of its college football teams (I had begun adding some text along those lines, but you removed it). I think it's also worth mentioning in text that Alabama does not have any major league sports teams. I had some other ideas re reorganization and trimming, but we can put those aside for now. It's clear from your revert and edit summary that you took issue with my changes. If you would explain further what your main objections were, I'm optimistic we can quickly reach consensus on how to improve this section. Thanks. Barryjjoyce (talk) 01:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

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Dothan, Alabama Cops Accused Of Mass False Arrests Of Blacks

There will be some interesting facts to add to Dothan and Alabama history as the events detailed on sites such as the following develop:

https://www.popularresistance.org/rural-alabama-cops-accused-of-mass-false-arrests-of-blacks/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaecyy (talk • contribs) 08:54, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

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Added Archives

I will add 8 access-dates and 77 archive urls to the citations in this page. Details:

--Tim1357 talk|poke 02:21, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Added Archives

Here is a list of archives/accessdates that I added to this article.

Reference edited Actions taken
A look at the languages spoken in Alabama and the drop in the Spanish speaking population +archive_url, date (archived on 22 November 2015)
An entry level guide to all about Alabama +archive_url, date (archived on 8 August 2016)
Alabama Historical Association Marker Program: Washington County +archive_url, date (archived on 22 August 2011)
The Black Belt +archive_url, date (archived on 11 January 2011)
Wetumpka Crater +archive_url, date (archived on 16 February 2012)
April 27's record tally: 62 tornadoes in Alabama +archive_url, date (archived on 9 November 2012)
State Membership Reports +archive_url, date (archived on 13 April 2010)
Bahais of the Shoals +archive_url, date (archived on 11 May 2015)
Planning Your Alabama Visit +archive_url, date (archived on 2 September 2016)
Reducing Alabama's Income Tax on Working-Poor Families: Two Options +archive_url, date (archived on 16 January 2011)
2006 Gubernatorial Republican Primary Election Results – Alabama +archive_url, date (archived on 19 November 2008)

--Tim1357 talk|poke 04:40, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

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Inland waterways

Hello. There is two different information about length of inland waterways. Which is correct 1,300 (source) or 1.500 (source) miles? --Aabdullayev851 (talk) 07:44, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2017

Change "US Senators: Luther Strange" to "Doug Jones" Mrfantasticface (talk) 03:46, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

@Mrfantasticface:  Not done. He hasn't taken office yet; Strange is still the senator. CityOfSilver 03:56, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

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County

What is the largest county in Alabama? Moorermary (talk) 02:11, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

I think it is Baldwin County. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Moorermary (talk) 02:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Discussion of UN report

There has been some back-and-forth about how to include the assessment made by an observer from the United Nations regarding environmental conditions in rural Alabama. (Currently: "In 2017, a UN investigator stated that parts of rural Alabama had poorer environmental conditions than anywhere he had seen in the developed world.") It seems like it might be a good idea to discuss the reference here rather than in competing edit summaries. --Dystopos (talk) 14:00, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed changes

Information to be added or removed: I propose adding the below text to the education section of the page: Alabama ranked 43rd in the nation for educational performance, according to Education Week’s Quality Counts 2018 report. It earned an overall score of 70.2 out of 100 points and a grade of C-minus. By comparison, the nation received a score of 75.2 or a C.

Alabama posted a C in the Chance-for-Success category, ranking 41st on factors that contribute to a person’s success both within and outside the K-12 education system. Alabama received a mark of D-plus and finished 36th for School Finance. It ranked 43rd with a grade of D on the K-12 Achievement Index.

Explanation of issue: I believe this text would enhance the page, adding information on the quality of the state's K-12 education which is not currently available on the page. I'm asking your consideration because I work for Education Week. I apologize if I've misformatted this or left out information you need to make a decision - I'm rather new at this.

References supporting change: this is the source I'd cite: https://www.edweek.org/ew/collections/quality-counts-2018-state-grades/highlight-reports/2018/01/17/Alabama.html --Csmithepe

Reply 11-FEB-2019

  Edit request declined  

  • Please provide a source unconnected to Education Week for this claim.

Regards,  Spintendo  21:02, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2019

There is a grammatical error in the section about the history of Alabama; an "is" should be "are" : What is [should be 'are'] now the counties of Baldwin and Mobile became part of Spanish West Florida in 1783, part of the independent Republic of West Florida in 1810, and was finally added to the Mississippi Territory in 1812. Most of what is now the northern two-thirds of Alabama was known as the Yazoo lands beginning during the British colonial period. It was claimed by the Province of Georgia from 1767 onwards. Following the Revolutionary War, it remained a part of Georgia, although heavily disputed.[35][36] AMGunn (talk) 21:47, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done for now: the "is" refers to the area as a whole: currently the area is the counties of Baldwin and Mobile. DannyS712 (talk) 22:15, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

"Alabmama" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Alabmama. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Alabama for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Alabama is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Alabama until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 21:21, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

You're welcome

I routinely add blank lines (which by the way are completely invisible to the reader and therefore irrelevant to MOS) because they might be useful at some point to some editor—or so y'all tell me, via talk page and email. If there's a policy or guideline indicating they should be removed (or consensus that I should stop), please share. --Brogo13 (talk) 22:40, 17 January 2020 (UTC) p.s.

Again, they're invisible to the reader and therefore irrelevant to MOS—in my opinion. --Brogo13 (talk) 19:26, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Brogo13, I can't understand why this would be helpful or why there is a dispute here. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
Why is this (adding any particular blank line) helpful to any particular editor? Follow the see and also links in my edit summary and they'll explain. There is no dispute here; the lines are still gone from this article, and I simply avoid both His Highness and His subjects (aeronautics). --Brogo13 (talk) 20:38, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
You're welcome.
Again.

--02:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2020

Please add in the following copy to the "Economy" section as an additional subsection on the Alabama Wikipedia page.


Bioscience

Bioscience plays an important role in Alabama's economy. The economic impact of the bioscience industry to the state of Alabama is $7.3 BILLION.

The bioscience industry in Alabama by the numbers:

  • 780 bioscience companies
  • 48,000 direct and indirect jobs
  • $68K Average salary (46% above average Alabama Salary)
  • $2.3 Billion Payroll
  • $161 Million Payroll taxes
  • $101 Million in venture capital since 2012
  • $1.3 Billion NIH Funding
  • 1.9% of Alabama’s GDP

[1] SOURCE: BIO Alabama, https://bioalabama.com/About-Alabama-Biotech Kristinakeogh (talk) 16:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference BIO Alabama, https://bioalabama.com/About-Alabama-Biotech was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
That seems overly detailed and from a self-published source. A neutral 3rd party source would be much better. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:03, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Goldsztajn (talk) 05:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Notification: Housing in Alabama

A request has been submitted to WikiProject Alabama for a new article to be created on the topic of Housing in Alabama. Please join the discussion or consider contributing to the new article. Best regards, -- M2545 (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

"Alabaman people" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Alabaman people. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 29#Alabaman people until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ℜob C. alias ALAROB 23:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Unverifiable information on Scots-Irish Americans in Ancestry section

"Based on historic migration and settlement patterns in the southern colonies and states, demographers estimated there are more people in Alabama of Scots-Irish origins than self-reported.[129] Many people in Alabama claim Irish ancestry because of the term Scots-Irish but, based on historic immigration and settlement, their ancestors were more likely Protestant Scots-Irish coming from the northern province of Ulster, where they had been for a few generations as part of the English colonization.[130]"

Source [129]:

https://archive.today/20200211182250/http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US01&-qr_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_DP3YR2&-ds_name=&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false

Source [130]:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg

I see no information in source [129] that supports any of this information. It's just statistical info.

Source [130] is a broken link to an image that appears to have been uploaded on wikimedia. No way that was an effective source. Hunan201p (talk) 06:28, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

English bias in the "Ancestry" section, part 2

The first paragraph of the "Ancestry" section says that self-identified Americans in Alabama are of mostly English ancestry, whether they identify as such, or not.

In line with my previous comments from April 2021, I have doubts about the verifiability of this claim in the cited sources. The citations [128] and [129] don't appear to verify.

Citation 128: Sharing the Dream: White Males in a Multicultural America by Dominic J. Pulera

There is nothing in this book that says English people are the largest ethnic group in Alabama. In fact the word Alabama is contained only once on page 57 of this book, which can be seen at the following link:

https://archive.org/details/sharingdreamwhit00pule/page/56/mode/2up

I saw a young man in Northwestern Alabama who looked just like Britain's Prince Harry

That's a far cry from "most self identified Americans in Alabama are English".

Citation [129]: Reynolds Farley, 'The New Census Question about Ancestry: What Did It Tell Us?' , Demography, Vol. 28, No. 3 (August 1991), pp. 414, 421.

No link was provided with the citation to verify with, but that is available here:

https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article-pdf/28/3/411/904553/411farley.pdf

Again, there is nothing on pages 414 or 421 that says self-identified Americans in Alabama are of English ancestry.

That leaves citations [130] and [131] to check, but I can't get access to them. - Hunan201p (talk) 10:20, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

OK, but all this bold formatting and repeated blank lines is generally nonstandard for talk pages and mostly prohibited in the articles themselves (see MOS:BOLD). 9:59, March 17, 2022‎ -Fnlayson (talk)

Why is this page protected?

I was wondering why this page is protected? Thanks. -104.151.242.85 (talk) 02:08, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

The page was semiprotected indefinitely by Materialscientist on March 14, 2022 for persistent vandalism. If you register an account for three days and make ten edits, you'll be able to edit the page. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:22, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Account made, thanks! -Conservative Alabamian (talk) 02:30, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Conservative Alabamian, I don't know if you can see this, but there really is a long history of vandalism; the article was protected already in 2009. Drmies (talk) 17:51, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
Understood, thanks! Conservative Alabamian (talk) 22:48, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

English bias in Ancestry section

The Ancestry section is clearly biased towards making Alabama seem more English than it is. This source (American Community Survey):

https://archive.ph/20200211182250/http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=04000US01&-qr_name=ACS_2008_3YR_G00_DP3YR2&-ds_name=&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false

Does not give an "English" group of 23.6%, as listed on this Wiki article, but 10.2%. It's obvious that whoever wrote this combined the "American" and "English" group percentages. This unsourced gem of POV/OR appears to be offered as a reasoning for these errors:

"Those citing "American" ancestry in Alabama are generally of English or British ancestry; many Anglo-Americans identify as having American ancestry because their roots have been in North America for so long, in some cases since the 1600s"

Further, the Irish percentage given in the link is not 7.7%, but 10.3%. Someone also forgot to mention the very large 7.9 German percentage in the Wiki.

Cited multiple times is a 1980 census document. Dubious, as are these unverifiable sources: [128][129][130][131][132].

I have elected to relist the largest ancestry components of Alabamans as given by the American Community Survey in their accurate form. Hunan201p (talk) 06:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Yo, hey is this @Hunan201p Wise3beast (talk) 07:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Cities and towns in Alabama

How is it determined whether a place in Alabama is a city or a town? List of municipalities in Alabama says that it is determined by the population in 1970 or when it was incorporated, whether greater or less than 2,000. But I've seen some articles that say they changed from a town to a city later. Is the US Census Bureau profile (such as this) a valid reference for whether it's a city or a town? Kk.urban (talk) 22:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

That should be fine if the census data is recent, especially for those places well above or below the 2,000 town/city break point. -Fnlayson (talk) 22:55, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2023

According to the American Immigration Council, The top countries of origin for Alabama’s immigrants were Mexico (27 percent of immigrants), China (6 percent), India (6 percent), Guatemala (5 percent), and Germany (5 percent). Add to this information to the demographics section.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_alabama.pdf 103.164.138.55 (talk) 14:08, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 05:09, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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