Talk:Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965)

Merge proposal

I propose merging Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965) into Estádio D. Afonso Henriques. I think the content in Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965) can easily be explained in the context of Estádio D. Afonso Henriques, and a merge would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Estádio D. Afonso Henriques. 44 Gabriel (talk) 23:36, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

For better justification:

This stadium was never demolished, but renovated. Show me a reference to the stadium demolition, if the location is the same. This stadium has never been demolished or anything like that. What took place were 2 major renovations a (1991 b en 2003 c) to the internal infrastructure and facades, but the skeleton and margins remain the same as always. [1]

The exceptions are the new south stand to increase final capacity. In fact, the club itself indicates this very well, both in the club's history and in the description of the stadium on the Vitória website. "Located in the heart of the city, the D. Afonso Henriques Stadium is a place of worship for the people of Guimarães. Built in 1965, then the Municipal Stadium of Guimarães, decades later it was named after the founding king of the nationality to whom he pays sincere tribute to host the games of EURO2004, it underwent extensive renovations, becoming an excellent venue for football matches. With a capacity for 30,000 people per sporting season, it occupies a prominent place in the League's visitors list."

Note the dates in the history and images of the evolution and expansion of the stadium in the dates 1965, 1989, 1995 and 2003. There is also a video showing the works carried out and new constructions.

Therefore, it is best to combine these two articles, and eliminate the first, as one is a continuation of the other and not two different objects and structures. With the merger you will also be able to obtain a better and more complete article with true and currently untrue information, such as what is present in wikidata, which basically says that the stadium was demolished in 2005 to be replaced by a new stadium built in 2003? This information on wikidata is wrong and general misinformation. 44 Gabriel (talk) 20:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I invite at least the users who edited here before to discuss merging the articles: @Mazewaxie, @V.B.Speranza, @GrahamHardy, @Polygnotus, @J 1982, @Mattythewhite, @FrenchFootball, @GiantSnowman, @Spicemix, @CactusWriter, @WOSlinker. Thank you 44 Gabriel (talk) 12:38, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I live in Guimarães and yes, this stadium was demolished. The current stadium was built a few meters away due to urban planning. They are technically 2 different stadiums, as nothing from the original one (from 1965-2003) remains. Maybe these photos can clarify it a bit better V.B.Speranza (talk) 13:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC) V.B.Speranza (talk) 13:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

If you are from Guimarães then you should know very well that the stadium's stands were not demolished, but were instead expanded closer to the game's rectangle in place of the athletics track. @V.B.Speranza These images show exactly the opposite of what you claim. In fact, these images, which I posted in my comment above, are not misleading. It shows how the infrastructure / stands are the same as they are today, only the pitch has been buried and taken off a few metres to the left, leaving space to build close to the pitch. Look at the stand in the background around 1991 or the circle-shaped stands just like today's :)

Once again, take a good look at this video, what the architect says about renovation, and the history of the club (1965, 1989, 1995 and 2003) where all the evidence is there.

Here is a little of architect Eduardo Guimarães' testimony and what he was asked to do: - I put it in Portuguese but you can translate automatically.

" O “gozo enorme de coser quatro bancadas diferentes”

Vimaranense e vitoriano, “nascido e criado na Rua D. João I”, Eduardo Guimarães recorda em conversa com o Jornal de Guimarães o “desafio” que foi este projeto. “O projeto” da sua carreira. “A câmara impôs um projeto de reformulação, e não de raiz, que tivesse custos controlados”. Foi, portanto, “um desafio”, tal como já foi referido, “coser aquilo”. “O estádio era composto por quatro bancadas, todas elas diferentes, feitas em alturas diferentes e sem qualquer ligação”. “Penso que foi conseguido criar um estádio homogéneo e com as exigências da UEFA”. " 44 Gabriel (talk) 19:56, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

See the official report of the Portuguese Republic:, which refers to renovation and improvement work on the stadium, not new construction.

" O seu clausulado, antecedido por cinco considerandos, é o seguinte:

"Cláusula 1.ª

Objecto

1 - O presente contrato-programa tem por objecto a execução da obra de remodelação e beneficiação do estádio D. Afonso Henriques, de propriedade do Vitória Futebol Clube, em cumprimento do projecto aprovado pela Câmara Municipal de Guimarães e tendo em conta os requisitos da UEFA, nos termos do caderno de encargos em apenso a que se comprometeu a candidatura portuguesa à realização do Campeonato Europeu de Futebol de 2004. " 44 Gabriel (talk) 20:12, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Nothing from the 1965 stadium exists, the “stands that were stitched” are from expansions made afterwards, but I digress. V.B.Speranza (talk) 19:21, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I reviewed the references here and saw that there are terms such as "remodeling", "renovation" as well as "new construction" for the current stadium. (Note that I do not read Portuguese so I'm looking at English translations.) However, it seems to me that it is irrelevant whether the initial structure was remodeled or completely reconstructed -- the structure holds the same name and appears to exist in the same location. Essentially the Estádio D. Afonso Henriques appears to be a continuation of the Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965). In fact, the Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965) article was probably an unacceptable Content Fork when it was created in 2009, four years after the Estádio D. Afonso Henriques. I see no problem with merging the minimal text from "Estádio D. Afonso Henriques (1965)" into "Estádio D. Afonso Henriques." It actually will make it easier for readers to locate information. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I come to say that the Dutch Wikipedia has also already merged. Now the question is, can someone with more powers do it or if I, a mere user, do it, don't I run the risk of being blocked and seeing the edit reversed? 44 Gabriel (talk) 08:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

See WP:MERGECLOSE. Waiting for one week following end of discussion is suggested. Note that what other language Wikipedias do is irrelevant to English Wikipedia procedures and guidelines. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 22:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)