Talk:VH1 Storytellers (Kanye West album)

VH1 Storytellers (Kanye West album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 28, 2024	Good article nominee	Listed

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GA Review

Passed. Chchcheckit (talk) 20:24, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:VH1 Storytellers (Kanye West album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Kyle Peake (talk · contribs) 15:03, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Chchcheckit (talk · contribs) 15:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I'll do this. // Chchcheckit (talk) 15:20, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Well-written

On February 3, 2009, West announced that he would perform an episode in Los Angeles for the VH1 Storytellers program on February 13. Would it be better to write this line as "West announced that he would film an episode in Los Angeles for the VH1 Storytellers program on February 13"? (source)

Done --K. Peake 18:56, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Rabin's AV Club review: it is not clear what (according to the critic, at least) the spirit of VH1 storytellers is and how West violates it. Perhaps (per source) this could be written as: In a mixed review, Nathan Rabin of The A.V. Club found that West's "unusually dour" presentation "undermines the back-porch, intimate, telling-stories-to-pals vibe of Storytellers". ~~Also; it feels innacurate to label the review "mixed" when Rabin writes that "Even diehard fans will likely have a prohibitively hard time listening to this footnote of a CD/DVD more than once."~~

Comment: I'm a little confused by this one – do you want me to replace the entire review with the sentence you re-phrased to above or just the first sentence and keep the rest of the review as it is currently? --K. Peake 18:56, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake Sorry, I sometimes suck with words. I would suggest replacing the first sentence with the rephrased sentence. Also, minor suggestion regarding "while Rabin praised the rapper for sounding "tight, accomplished, and polished to a blinding sheen" on certain tracks". Rabin thinks that Kanye sounds that way "at least before [he] goes off on a tangent or painful freestyle." With this in mind, it might be better to replace "on certain tracks" with "at certain points" since this implies it happens during tracks. I have no more issues with the reception, hope I'm not being nitpicky. // Chchcheckit (talk) 19:38, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, we all word things wrongly at points even myself rarely and done this now! --K. Peake 18:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Executive producer Bill Flanagan said that some of West's stories were cut down due to time constraints, trying to capture the essence of his comments. perhaps redo that last line to add attribution, such as:

In an interview with Reuters, executive producer Bill Flanagan said that some of West's stories were cut down due to time constraints and that he "tried to get to the essence of his comments."

Done --K. Peake 18:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy/Verifiability/Spotchecks

No sources flagged as unreliable
Earwig Copyvio detector finds plaigarism is unlikely: highest percentage is 11.5% (pitchfork's review)

Spotchecks

Y This followed his mentor Jay-Z having appeared for the program a year and a half prior, and West gave away around 80 tickets to his fans through a contest on his website.[1] Verified.
Direction and production design were done for West's episode by Es Devlin, while lighting design was handled by Martin Phillips and John McGuire. Citing Es Devlin's website: better source (i.e. personnel) is needed. ~~Also does not mention Martin Phillips and John McGuire.~~ (error)

Done --K. Peake 18:56, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Executive producer Bill Flanagan said that some of West's stories were cut down due to time constraints, trying to capture the essence of his comments. West insulted English band Radiohead in the taping for lead singer Thom Yorke's alleged snobbery of him backstage at the 51st Annual Grammy Awards, taking offence as he saw the band as an inspiration. He also asked the audience to give American singer Chris Brown "a break" after the singer's assault on Rihanna, although there was a lack of detail available regarding the incident at the time. Verified by both sources.
Y He was backed by the theatrics of an elaborate light show,8 12 featuring visual projections on the background screen and illumination from a floating square overhead that shoots red beams down near him on occasion.2 Verified by all sources.
For the show, West wore a bowtie, shades, and a shining suit.111213 Bowtie verified in pitchfork, shades and suit in A.V. Club. Popmatters is wrong; I think the "shining suit" line may have been referring to this line: the set begins with West cladding himself in the shimmering robes of a power-ballad-purveying singer/songwriter.
- (note: the closest i got was this source but hhhhh)

Done --K. Peake 14:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The rapper delivered an intimate gig sitting on the stage's back porch.14 Failed verification. (as in, the "back porch")

Done invoked the appropriate ref here --K. Peake 14:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y He segued from the song into "RoboCop" and recited the stanza "You spoiled little L.A. girl / You're just an L.A. girl" at the end, mentioning Tenacious D as an influence.[1][2] Verified.

Broad

~~No personnel/credits section; please add.~~ (addressed below)
Otherwise; all other sections listed are good, especially how the "synopsis and music" intergrates both point together.

NPOV

Seems alright to me.

Stability

Kinda given; no major edits/changes since August 2024

Illustrations/Images

The album artwork has appropriate fair use rationale, whilst the other two images (of Thom Yorke and Chris Brown) are appropriately licensed under creative commons 2.0
the captions appear to be appropriate under WP:CAP. the subjects of both photos are given context relevant to the article and its date.

Work ongoing. // Chchcheckit (talk) 16:01, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding credits/personnel: I am aware that there is no image of the credits to VH1 Storytellers on Discogs, and if ebay is anything to go by this thing is damn expensive (i.e. above £26+) if you don't own the release yourself (to use for reference). It might be useful to post a request on WP:RX on this. // Chchcheckit (talk) 16:09, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chchcheckit: While the good faith comments are very much appreciated, I actually own this live album on its CD and DVD package myself so can confirm there is no personnel listed for the album – only the lengths of the performances for these songs. --K. Peake 18:56, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah alright, thanks. Chchcheckit (talk) 19:25, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake: Alright we're almost good to go (i.e. 75-80% of the way), the main issues right now seem to be with references, verifiability and whatnot but I'm happy with the rest of the article's prose, NPOV, etc. I've made a few minor tweaks where applicable but ya. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chchcheckit: I have worked in any of the remaining points and done some slight copy editing too, let me know if this is ready! --K. Peake 14:46, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake You're close, but you can't have the cigar yet.

The rapper delivered an intimate gig sitting on the stage's back porch. Failed verification. I think you confused the line I suggested you put in reception with the actual setting: Ever the iconoclast, an unusually dour West undermines the back-porch, intimate, telling-stories-to-pals vibe of Storytellers ever so slightly by performing in a suit and shades on a bare stage, surrounded by an extravagant light show and a small army of musicians. Try writing about the stage itself; AV Club mentions it is bare, Complex describes it as simplified, etc. Describe the feeling of the set if you can't describe the set itself, I guess.

EE. // Chchcheckit (talk) 18:36, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chchcheckit I have now implemented this with the info as suitable as can be, can you check now please? --K. Peake 18:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake: Yeah, seems better. Last thing: the lead.

Minor suggestion: Reception of the rapper's speeches was more mixed, while a few reviewers commended his honesty. Can you explain in better detail why the speeches were mixed? see the reception.

That should be all. // Chchcheckit (talk) 19:19, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chchcheckit I have now added more context, feel free to check if anything else could be added! --K. Peake 15:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]