User talk:Woko Sapien

March 2021

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give a page a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into U.S. Presidential IQ hoax. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Thank you. Polyamorph (talk) 16:18, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How the US government does it

Witha cap R [1] Carptrash (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Carptrash: Perhaps, but Wikipedia's style guide is pretty clear (see MOS:JOBTITLES). Also, this issue has been thoroughly debated here and here. Woko Sapien (talk) 16:44, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And strictly speaking, the website you linked to isn't an official U.S. government website, but a non-profit that works in U.S. civics. Either way, you're welcome to voice your objection at the Manual of Style talk page. --Woko Sapien (talk) 16:49, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's fine, I saw what I thought was a un-thought-out edit and since it turns out to be a thought-out edit I'm okay with that. Carptrash (talk) 23:26, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi sorry, juut letting you know actions you have done have been undone on a page named Chip Roy for grammatical reasons. Msaskiw (talk) 22:26, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2022 Elections Task Force

Hi Woko Sapien,

I'm looking at starting a task force of Wikipedia editors to work on the pages of candidates up for election in 2022. Many congressional member pages have very few votes or political positions (for example, compare Michelle Steel and Steve Chabot against Nicole Malliotakis), and so I think it would be a great resource for us to flesh out a lot of these pages ahead of the election to better support people who come to Wikipedia for information before they vote.

I see you've been active on a couple of congressperson pages recently so thought you might be interested. If you are, please message me on my talk page. Once I have a couple of interested editors I will work on building a task force page so we can coordinate our work. No worries at all if you're not interested or too busy. Thanks for everything you do for the Wikipedia communtiy!

Wildfire35 (talk) 22:45, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PVI Even/EVEN ratings

Hi, it looks like the change from EVEN to Even of all PVI ratings per MOS has been reverted manually in a number of pages. Are you sure that MOS:Caps really apply here, considering that EVEN is the official term used by Cook PVI [2], the ones who created it, and literally every other political newsletter? This is to say that the all uppercase EVEN is the only version we find in all sources. Thanks! —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 06:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@CX Zoom: It seemed clear to me MOS:Caps (specifically MOS:ALLCAPS) applied here, since EVEN is not an acronym, abbreviation, Unicode, etc. It's literally just the word "even". As far as how Cook renders it, I'll point out the official government profile of Justin Trudeau says he is the "23rd Prime Minister". But on his Wikipedia page, it is rendered as the "23rd prime minister" because the consensus is that MOS:JOBTITLES takes priority over the official source. All that said, if people feel that strongly about it remaining in all caps, I'm not going to edit war over this. I was just being bold.--Woko Sapien (talk) 14:00, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@CX Zoom: I'll also point out that the reversions seem to be the work of a single IP user, and not a mass reversion by multiple editors. --Woko Sapien (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Sockpuppet tagging

Please do not add {{Sockpuppet}} tags to userpages unless an SPI, CU or admin investigation has reached a conclusion to that effect. And even in that case, it is advisable to leave it to the CU, admin or SPI clerk's discretion as to whether the page needs to be tagged. Abecedare (talk) 20:49, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Abecedare that's my bad. This was my first sockpuppet investigation request and I wasn't sure if I needed to manually tag the accounts in question (like the way you have to manually tag categories for category rename requests). I'm sorry for any trouble that caused and won't do it again. Woko Sapien (talk) 21:26, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit to "United States Secretary of Commerce"

Dear Woko Sapien,

I have noticed that you recently edited the Wikipedia article on the U.S. Secretary of Commerce, and uncapitalized the words "Secretary" and "Commerce". I had recently edited the article by capitalizing those 2 words. Could you please explain your reasoning for this uncapitalization.

Sincerely,

A.FLOCK, Wikipedian

A.FLOCK (talk)

@A.FLOCK: Hi there, the reason for undoing the capitalization was because it technically violates MOS:JOBTITLES — a rule that I'll openly admit is enforced on Wikipedia haphazardly. While capitalization is acceptable when denoting a title (Bob Blow was appointed Secretary of Affairs last July or Secretary of Affairs Bob Blow was appointed last July), the manual of style dictates that lowercase must be used when denoting a description (The current secretary of affairs is Bob Blow or Bob Blow is the worst secretary of affairs ever).

Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is that if it has a modifier before it (the, a, an, many, etc.), it's being used as a description, rather than a title. There are a few exceptions, like when the title is being used as a substitute for the person's name (The Secretary of Affairs gave a speech after he has appointed in July has a modifier, but is referring specifically to Bob Blow).

In the instance of "The United States secretary of commerce is the head of the United States Department of Commerce..." secretary of commerce is describing the officeholder, but not the title or any particular individual who's used it. A workable alternative that could use capital letters would be something like "The title of Secretary of Commerce is used by the heads of the United States Department of Commerce", but that's rather wordy.

Anyway, I hope that helps clear things up. My apologies if you thought I was edit warring; I hadn't seen that you changed it a month earlier. --Woko Sapien (talk) 13:58, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

Hello Woko Sapien!

The New Pages Patrol is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles needing review. We could use a few extra hands to help.
We think that someone with your activity and experience is very likely to meet the guidelines for granting.
Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, but it requires a strong understanding of Wikipedia’s CSD policy and notability guidelines.
Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision, and feel free to post on the project talk page with questions.
If patrolling new pages is something you'd be willing to help out with, please consider applying here.

Thank you for your consideration. We hope to see you around!

Sent by Zippybonzo using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 07:51, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Charles III requested move discussion

There is a new requested move discussion in progress for the Charles III article. Since you participated in the previous discussion, I thought you might like to know about this one. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:01, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll give it a look. Woko Sapien (talk) 15:25, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other British monarch requested move discussions currently taking place

Since you recently participated in the Charles III requested move discussion, I thought you might like to know that there are two other discussions currently going on about other British monarch article titles here and here. Cheers. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:26, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Instagram etc as an EL

Perfectly fine. We have them across the project. Even have templates for them. 24.97.185.90 (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's a funny way of saying "screw the official guidelines, I'll do whatever the hell I want." But hey, whatever floats your boat. Woko Sapien (talk) 18:07, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Restore

In case other people haven't read the message can you reinstate oppositions and legal challenges in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005. See this example because it makes sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005&oldid=473961968. Please? Song4Life (talk) 01:20, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel that strongly about it, you should be bold and restore it yourself. There shouldn't be any restrictions that prevent you from doing that. Woko Sapien (talk) 14:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel nervous of spreading false info in Wikipedia. Please understand. Song4Life (talk) 04:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, asking other editors to add information you believe might be inaccurate is also discouraged on Wikipedia. Woko Sapien (talk) 14:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel Like i need approvae before I do the edit because I feel that is a good idea? Is there anything to get approval? Song4Life (talk) 05:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, you do not need approval. So long as the page isn't protected, you are free to edit it. If your edit is later reverted or changed, that's typically not a big deal. However, pestering other editors to do things on your behalf is considered annoying. Woko Sapien (talk) 18:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Let America Vote for deletion

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Accidental Revert

I accidentally reverted one of your changes, I have undid that. Your edit has been re-published. Sorry!! Cooldudeseven7 (Discuss over a cup of tea?) 17:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, it's all good! Woko Sapien (talk) 17:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Cooldudeseven7 (Discuss over a cup of tea?) 18:01, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please fix navbox names after moves

After you move a navbox, you need to fix the |name= parameter to match the new name of the navbox. If you don't, the little "E" (for edit) link at the top left of the box will not work correctly. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:28, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the reminder! Woko Sapien (talk) 20:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jonesey95 thank you for cleaning up those template document subpages! Going forward, I'll try harder to make sure I move everything when I'm moving templates around. Woko Sapien (talk) 15:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When I do a page move, there is a checkbox that says "Move subpages (up to 100)". I always leave that checked. It is possible that you do not have that checkbox, because of some editing permission differences. If not, please make sure to check for subpages. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You said this last month but failed to update any of articles that transclude Template:NFL general managers upon your recent move of the template. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:59, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is that 100% necessary? The discussion above was initially about the name parameters and then the /doc pages.

As for the pages that use the old template name, my understanding was that those pages would still display it correctly because the old template simply becomes a redirect. For instance, George Washington uses Template:US Presidents without issue, even though that template's undergone multiple name moves (currently Template:Presidents of the United States).

Please let me know if I'm mistaken on this. Woko Sapien (talk) 22:00, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's not 100% necessary but transclusion checks don't work unless the name matches, so it's just a matter of maintenance. It can easily be fixed with AutoWikiBrowser so it's not that big of a deal. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 03:45, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the insight!

I've always avoided AWB because I thought maintenance stuff like that fell under rule #4 (don't make insignificant or inconsequential edits). Now I might actually look into registering at some point. Cheers! Woko Sapien (talk) 18:44, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I only use AWB to batch-edit tedious things like this. If it was purely cosmetic like blank spaces in a infobox I wouldn't have bothered.

Also, shouldn't similar templates like Template:NFL head coach navbox be moved to match the naming scheme? It's move protected (the redirect is preventing it) and I can easily request it myself but wanted to check with you first in case you have plans to get to it and some others first. I can handle the post-move edits if done. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 01:11, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Dissident93 Yeah, that's my longer-term plan. You're more than welcome to take that initiative. Otherwise, I'll probably start tackling it next week Woko Sapien (talk) 22:01, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Move request made. Also, for the sake of consistency, I've taken the liberty of moving all the other NFL coaching templates (coordinators, position coaches, etc.). Woko Sapien (talk) 16:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Woko Sapien, was there a discussion or a consensus reached regarding removing the "navbox" suffix for all these navigation templates? We've got several thousand college sports navboxes pretraining to American college sports, that vast majority of which carry the "navbox" suffix in their name. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 00:10, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking we should go ahead and just move all of them for consistency reasons. There's really no reason why they need to self-named themselves as navboxes. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:20, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There was no discussion, just being bold since I didn't think it'd be a controversial change. And yes, my rationale was that the "navbox" suffix is largely unnecessary (e.g. Springfield Foobars president navbox versus Springfield Foobars presidents). Although in some cases it's needed to distinguish between similar, but different templates like Template:Houston Texans roster and Template:Houston Texans roster navbox.

Yes, there's a lot of templates out there that this would apply to. My plan (unless it's strongly opposed) was to chip away at them in the coming months. Woko Sapien (talk) 15:23, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Woko Sapien, I can see argument for concision here, but a standard suffix night be useful and lend consistently for the rare cases where it's needed, e.g. your example and Template:Twitter navbox vs. Template:Twitter. Given that this is a massive structural change requiring moves of thousands of templates plus tens of thousands of associated cleanup edits (just for the part related to college football, much less everything else), I think a discussion is warranted. Perhaps, Wikipedia talk:Navigation template or Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates is the right place? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 01:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Probably either forum works. But, as I mentioned above, I was always under the impression that subsequent cleanups weren't necessary as the old template name just functions as a redirect on the pages that use the old name. If the subsequent cleanups are in fact needed, I'm okay with not moving forward with any this since that would multiply the amount of work needed to be done for what's really a minor change at the end of the day. Woko Sapien (talk) 18:46, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanups would still be optional and not required, I was only changing them for basic maintenance reasons. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]