Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alban Bunjaku (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Jujutacular (talk) 04:56, 6 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alban Bunjaku

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Player has not made a single appearance at a senior level (Derby County). Kő Cloch (talk) 10:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. JMHamo (talk) 10:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 11:22, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 11:22, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 11:22, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kosovo-related deletion discussions. — CutestPenguin^Hangout 11:22, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - He has played in a FIFA sanctioned international match therefore he passes WP:NFOOTBALL. IJA (talk) 11:47, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Kosovo is not a FIFA member; fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 13:30, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Since the last afd, WP:NFOOTBALL was clarified to explicitly say that it only covers tier 1 international matches, meaning Kosovo's matches as a non-FIFA member do not qualify. More importnatnly, he has not received sufficient coverage to meet WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:44, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm not !voting here this time around, but I do have to say (as this is by no means the first case I've seen from Kosovo) the FIFA and FPL argument is simply absurd. That notability "subguideline" (in fact an essay) needs an urgent update, as the list per se hasn't been updated in considerably long - disregarding reverted edits. That a football player from a FIFA member state such as the Federation of Saint Kitts and Nevis, with a population of about 55000 (which by the way is probably not a fully professional player due to that precise fact), is inherently notable yet someone from Kosovo isn't, is frankly insulting. As for coverage, there is stuff like [1] and [2]. Regards, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 17:43, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It is better to focus on quality footballer articles than to have an abundance of sub-quality and borderline ones.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:28, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Has played for national team of an independent nation in FIFA-approved match. It seems to be WP:BIAS to take advantage of the inherent bigoted position of some nations blocking this team from full recognition. This nation is 100 times more population than micronations that we accept without blinking. Nfitz (talk) 22:45, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Kosovo is not a member of UEFA/FIFA, so fails WP:NFOOTBALL JMHamo (talk) 22:49, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - ignoring the potential contentions around NFOOTY (though Kosovo aren't a member of FIFA, he doesn't meet that subject-specific guideline, so that's the end of that discussion), I'm just not seeing GNG. There's a lot of routine transfer talk. I'm struggling to find much in the way of indepth discussion of the player that does not come from a primary source. the two albanian language sources in the article return 404s for me, leaving the only thing I can see that might count as something approaching significant coverage being source 9 in the article. Can an albanian speaker provide any assistance in native language sources? Perhaps @Eni.Sukthi.Durres: or @PoshteMorriKuq: might be able to provide assistance? Fenix down (talk) 15:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If his GNG is not inherited by its belonging to a national team, it'll be difficult to otherwise decide it: he is clearly too young. The question is merely to decide whether Kosovo's national team is a national team or not. Some people say that in order to be a national team, it should belong to FIFA. Personally I find that position absurd because national teams existed before FIFA, but this is a community to which I belong for a very short time, so I'll respect its decisions, however I want to observe that the 2nd nomination had pretty much the same people discussing this footballer, and there was clearly no consensus. Since nothing has changed since for the position of Kosovo with UEFA/FIFA, why are we wasting time here? Why not discuss this at the WikiProject Football, come up with a resolution, and then proceed from there into taking to deletion footballers of Kosovo? PoshteMorriKuq (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - What has FIFA membership got to do with this? I thought this was Wikipedia not FIFApedia / UEFApedia? Is FIFA that corrupt it has infiltrated Wikipedia? IJA (talk) 11:52, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:NFOOTY # 1 "Players who have played in, and managers who have managed in any Tier 1 International Match, as defined by FIFA...are notable. The notability of these is accepted..." The latter part means, that under this guideline, sources for passing GNG are dispensed with. So let's have a look at what is a Tier 1 International Match: The FIFA regulations say: "...a tier 1 International Match shall mean any International Match in which both of teams participating are the "A" Representative Teams of the Members concerned, or an International Match involving a Scratch Team." That means if the match is authorized by FIFA, and one team is a national team of a FIFA member they may play against a "scratch team" to satisfy the Tier 1 requirements. A "scratch team" is defined as a "team brought together on a one-off basis, containing active players registered with clubs playing in the highest division of a Member that are not affiliated to the same Member". IMO that includes a "national team" of an unrecognized nation that is made up, at least partially, by players playing in leagues in FIFA members. this source says "second international friendly match Fifa-sanctioned." this source says that the previous match against Haiti was "Kosovo's first match approved by the international governing body FIFA" See here for the Kosovo - FIFA agreement. Kraxler (talk) 17:46, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A scratch team is defined as team brought together on a one-off basis, containing active players registered with clubs playing in the highest division of a Member that are not affiliated to the same Member. (Emphasis mine). The idea here is that a match between, for example, the English national team and a side consisting of the top foreign players in the Premier League would be tier 1, the qualifying criteria being that the side must be organised by a member association. You'll also note that the definition of tier 2 refers to matches against any other representative team. While Kosovo's matches are approved by FIFA, they are approved at tier 2 and therefore do not qualify under WP:NFOOTBALL. Sir Sputnik (talk) 20:34, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think your understanding of what a "scratch team" may be is too narrow, but I concede that your interpretation is as likely as mine. The wording is not that easy to parse. "Any other representative team" means the youth divisions or other non-principal team of the members, not a non-member team, "representative team" is defined as representing a member, only. Kraxler (talk) 05:04, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:01, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus so far. Mr. Guye (talk) 22:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mr. Guye (talk) 22:04, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - There is no argument that this article fails WP:GNG. Since Kosovo isn't in FIFA or UEFA, it also fails WP:NFOOTY as other users have already stated. Spiderone 21:12, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA wanted to admit Kosovo. It's not necessary to be an independent nation or a sovereign country to be a member of FIFA (see Faroe Islands, Wales etc.). Kosovo wasn't admitted due to the objection by Serbia. Subsequently FIFA allowed and sanctioned international matches of Kosovo against any FIFA member. Football has nothing to do with politics, much to the contrary, we all remember Avery Brundage saying "The Games must go on", in spite of nuclear bombs, cold war or dead Isreali hostages. Kraxler (talk) 22:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Even if FIFA wanted or not to admit Kosovo, the friendly itself was a non-FIFA match. Thus, he's still failing WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. MYS 77 ^✉ 19:31, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.