Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Chà Là

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. postdlf (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Chà Là

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Article fails WP:V and WP:RS, having done a web search I am unable to find any information other than reverts back to this page. If the US really lost 18 planes and helicopters in the battle as claimed, then that would have been reported somewhere Mztourist (talk) 04:21, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This one is tough without access to paper military records. After much varied searching I found this, the dates line up. And "a major battle developed between Viet Cong forces and the ARVN's 21st Division at Cha La on the Ca Mau Peninsula" in Vietnam Air Losses: United States Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps Fixed-wing Aircraft Losses in Southeast Asia 1961-1973. The other problem is that Kennedy was assasinated the day before so it is much like trying to observe a small star next to a supernova (if we were to look though old US news sources). —Noah 05:21, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Response: I don't think that the Vietnamese army newspaper can be regarded as RS. I note the timing, but even with saturation coverage of the JFK assasination it would have rated a mention somewhere and would certainly have appeared in the MACV or USAF records, I searched Vietnam Air Losses and they seem to list 1 plane lost on 24 November 1963 at Cha La, which hardly supports the exaggerated claims of 18 aircraft lost, nor establishes notability.Mztourist (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The exaggerated claim might be from the Viet Cong docuemnt which presumably was translated to produce this article. Also, the losses were likely ARVN losses to US Army or AirForce may not have recorded it?? In any case, not arguing either way, just find this one to be a nice mystery. —Noah 06:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Even ARVN losses would have made the MACV or USAF records as the US operated all the South Vietnamese aircraft and helicopters at this time. A translated Vietcong document cannot in any sense be regarded as RS. The problem that I have found is that these Vietnam War battles that have no or minimal non-communist Vietnamese sources are usually either exaggerations or complete fabrications Mztourist (talk) 06:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Vietnam-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (unless improved). I am not prepared to accept that a North Vietnamese newspaper is ab objective source, without corroboration from what South Vietnamese or American sources say about it. If improved, I will reconsider my vote. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:43, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon 01:49, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:HOAX. I have not found any non-primary reliable sources that verify independently that the subject of this AfD actually took place. Therefore without any non-primary reliable sources, I am inclined to believe that the event which is the subject of this AfD never took place, and thus the article should be deleted.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unlike Battle of Pat To, I don't think this is a hoax. I think something happened at Chà Là on 22, 23 or 24 November 1963, but there are simply no WP:RS to verify what happened or establish notability. Mztourist (talk) 08:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.