Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Colorado Springs Christian Schools

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 22:50, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Colorado Springs Christian Schools

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~~Almost no coverage by independent reliable sources, and the only ref available is no longer verifiable (I'm getting Error 500). Tube·of·Light 12:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)~~ Current state of sourcing is accceptable, so now, I believe that the article should be kept. Tube·of·Light 01:07, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Schools, and Colorado. Tube·of·Light 12:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Can't find secondary sources myself; can't redirect to school district because this is a private school. Iseult^Δxparlez moi 14:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE: the school k-12 has maybe 862 students and has been around for some 50 years. links describing it include https://www.ecfa.org/MemberProfile.aspx?ID=6283 (finances) Rabey, Steve (2022-05-01). "Colorado Springs Christian Schools celebrates 50 years". Colorado Springs Gazette. Retrieved 2022-06-11.. It is part of Association of Christian Schools International --Erp (talk) 17:01, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Enough sourcing to meet WP:GNG as with any American secondary school. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:07, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- There is only one news article about the school. If there is "enough sourcing to meet WP:GNG as with any American secondary school", please provide the links. Plus, as per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Schools, secondary schools are not presumed to be notable simply because they exist, so the "as with any American secondary school" doesn't make sense. Tube·of·Light 15:18, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Per WP:NEXIST sources only have to exist. They do not have to be in the article. They do not have to be online. My point is that it is virtually impossible that an American (or British or Canadian or Australian etc) secondary school will not have enough sources available to pass GNG. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:25, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - If there are sources, those sources should be listed. We can't keep an article because "it is virtually impossible that an American (or British or Canadian or Australian etc) secondary school will not have enough sources available to pass GNG" unless someone actually finds the relevant articles. Tube·of·Light 01:22, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - You're basically just saying you don't like a guideline! -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:44, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Absolutely incorrect, Necrothesp. I am saying that since you never listed any sources, you failed to prove that the article subject even satisfies WP:GNG or WP:NEXIST. Tube·of·Light 14:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:56, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per —Necrothesb. And in this case are the schools, plural, effectively a school district? In which case even more solid "Keep". -Doncram (talk) 02:09, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, unless someone provides enough sources, an article can not be kept. Please provide sources. Tube·of·Light 06:54, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- It appears to be a single school. BilledMammal (talk) 07:08, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment per WP:NSCHOOL, all schools must satisfy WP:NORG, WP:GNG, or both. Arguments that they are presumed notable must be discounted as per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. So far, it appears the only WP:GNG complaint source is this one from the Gazette, and even it only just meets the requirement, as most of the coverage is not independent of the subject - has anyone been able to find more? BilledMammal (talk) 07:08, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not just one school As point of fact, it is a school district or like that. Colorado Springs Christian Schools (per http://www.cscslions.org/ ):
- has a "Colorado Springs Campus" / K-12 / 4855 Mallow Road Colorado Springs, CO 80907 719.599.3553
- has a "Woodland Park Campus / K-8 / 1003 Tamarac Parkway
- CSCS was named a National Blue Ribbon School (whatever that is) in 2010
- CSCS is a 501c3

Also, per Google maps, Colorado Springs Christian Schools includes

- a middle school at 4845 Mallow Rd.
- a Colorado Springs Christian High School at 4825 Mallow Rd.

This is a school district, IMO, and as that plus being a charitable nonprofit with reporting requirements there will exist substantial coverage, in addition to high school sports reporting level stuff. Performing wp:BEFORE is a requirement or recommendation before nominating articles for deletion; the nominator mentions searching and implies that reliable sources do exist ("almost no coverage by independent reliable sources' -> they did find some coverage). --Doncram (talk) 16:11, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete not sufficiently notable (and I've searched). Probably merge into the Colorado Springs, Colorado article section on education. Perhaps expand the current list item there with a short description, e.g., "A PreK–12th grade Christian school started in 1972 and with an enrollment of 744 in 2016". The same should probably happen for most of the other schools on the private list (with a couple of exceptions like Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind which is notable in my quick opinion and Hilltop Baptist School which no longer exists and never notable so should be dropped from the list). --Erp (talk) 16:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is now ongoing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hilltop Baptist School, where discussion has developed that Hilltop Baptist School is in fact notable. Scandal there, enrollment drop, and closure might relate to enrollment increases at Colorado Springs Christian Schools. Also in general CHCS enrollment increases documented in some sources (I forget which ive seen) deserve coverage in this article. --Doncram (talk) 02:46, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nonprofit financial info: Continuing, it is a school district with revenues of $8,716,551 and assets of $10,949,710, as easily available from the main source on nonprofit financials, www.guidestar.org, which is free to all for use (requires opening a free account). Form 990s are available immediately online for 2019, 2018, 2017 filings (about 2018, 2017, 2016 fiscal years). From the 2019 one, the required brief description of the organization’s mission is:
COLORADO SPRINGS CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS (CSCS) IS A COLORADO NONPROFIT CORPORATION WHICH EXISTS TO PROVIDE HIGH QUALITY EDUCATION FROM A BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE FOR LIFELONG SERVICE CSCS WAS FOUNDED IN 1971 OUT OF THE NEED FOR BIBLECENTERED EDUCATION FOR THE CHILDREN OF CHRISTIAN FAMILIES CSCS SEEKS TO BE AN EXTENSION OF THE HOME AND THE CHURCH, PROVIDING A MEASURE OF CONSISTENCY REGARDING INPUT INTO THE LIFE OF THE CHILD CSCS SERVES THE HOME AND THE CHURCH IN THE REALM OF CHRISTIAN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT AS WELL AS IN ACADEMIC, PHYSICAL, SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL AREAS THE SCHOOLS HAVE PROGRAMS FOR KINDERGARTEN THROUGH SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.
Typical sports type reporting found easily by Google searching "Colorado Springs Christiann High School" in "news" category:
- "Elle Stevens brings home 3200-meter win for Colorado Springs Christian, adds to Lion legacy", by Luke Zahlmann, May 22, 2022 in the Pulitzer prize-winning Colorado Springs Gazette
- Mentions in Colorado State Track Meet Day 3 Results in Denver Post
- etc. --Doncram (talk) 16:42, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Feature type article: Colorado Springs Christian Schools celebrates 50 years, by Steve Rabey, May 1, 2022 in Colorado Springs Gazette. Among other things it mentions affiliation with Association of Christian Schools International. It seems possible to me that superintendent Roland DeRenzo (currently a redlink) is a wikipedia-notable person. It states:
CSCS has seen more than 10,000 students enter its doors and 3,228 graduate. The school now has 1,150 students — including some in Woodland Park and Westcliffe — 130 employees and an $8 million budget. Tuition costs $6,500 to $9,700 a year. / The 2021 class graduated 71 students, who won more than $5 million in academic scholarships to attend some of the country’s best secular and Christian colleges. Many grads have attended the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, a mile to the east, and some now work there.
routine news / Covid news type articles: "Christian schools note growing enrollment as parents seek alternatives to public schools", by Debbie Kelley, Oct 25, 2021, in Pikes Peak Courier (currently a redlink) (Article appears to be a reprint from Colorado Springs Gazette, and/or Pikes Peak Courier is another newspaper in Gazette's ownership/portfolio.) Includes:
A difference in pandemic practices created what Roland DeRenzo, superintendent of Colorado Springs Christian Schools, calls “a wave of enthusiasm for recruitment season.” / Parents noticed that the pandemic’s typical seesawing between live classroom instruction and remote learning didn’t seem to be happening at faith-based schools. / “Parents were so hungry and excited and had an intensity in getting students back in seats,” he said. / Like many private religious schools, Colorado Springs Christian Schools stayed open after mandatory closures lifted last spring, while still following public health practices, such as installing air filtration systems and stepping up cleaning.

There will be other news type stuff.

I'll stop here. I rather expect there is plenty more, that's just in first 2 pages of Google results. Perhaps the nominator and participants so far did not search on "Colorado Springs Christian High School". --Doncram (talk) 16:42, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Doncram: Perhaps the nominator and participants so far did not search on "Colorado Springs Christian High School": No, that's not the case for me. I went through the first five pages and found only one news article. I guess Google is using my past search history and choosing not to show search results from news sites. Anyways, going by the current state of the article, I'm certain that it meets WP:GNG. Tube·of·Light 01:07, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Doncram: it was a difficult to read through the above given some list formatting issues; however, "typical sports reporting" doesn't make a school notable especially when the divisions it plays in are quite low down. Nonprofit status certainly doesn't on its own. A quote by the superintendent in a local newspaper article doesn't make a school notable. There is one feature type article which had already been mentioned. Note I couldn't even find the school in the US News & World Report listings thought that is probably the school's decision not to be listed (it also wouldn't make it notable but would be some independent info). --Erp (talk) 18:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
some more stuff:
- Fox21 story on 50th year celebration (different than Gazette article)
- Colorado Springs Christian Schools-Woodland Park to add eighth-grade, become a middle school, by NORMA ENGELBERG, Apr 28, 2021
- ~~Colorado Springs District 11 votes to sell historic school building (actually i can't verify this is about CSCS because I hit my 4-articles-free limit on Gazette.~~ --Doncram (talk) 18:45, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Last one is not about the school. The public school district sold the building to a charter school, Mountain Song Community School. Announcing the addition of an 8th grade is hardly noteworthy beyond the local community. The Fox21 story is all of 5 sentences long and a picture which shows a sparse crowd at the celebration. Erp (talk) 20:00, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To User:Erp, thank you for bearing with formatting issues in my postings here, which have been mitigated somewhat by subsequent edits. Also thanks for identifying non-relevance if one article i cited, since struck-through by me. It takes a village, or something like that . --Doncram (talk) 03:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep there is enough coverage in reliable sources identified in this discussion for a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view. Also noting the nominator has withdrawn, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 19:44, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The sports articles does not significantly cover the district (it doesn't even seem to cover the schools significantly), and the Fox one is very little coverage. The Colorado District 11 article is just about District 11, not Colorado Springs Christian Schools. I do not see how nonprofit financial info helps with notability: this sort fo information is required, and the most unnotable organization that requires public records will have public records (also, according to WP:ORG, financial reports are primary sources, not secondary). Looking at the sources for Hilltop Baptist School that got deleted, a lot of them suffered link rot, but of the ones that didn't, Colorado Springs Christian Schools is not mentioned once: just because the school may be notable does not automatically make the overseeing organization notable.

The articles that significantly cover Colorado Springs Christian Schools so far mentioned is: Celebrating 50 years article (Colorado Springs Gazette), Growing enrollment as parents seek alternatives article (Pikes Peak Courier), and Adding 8th grade to school article (Pikes Peak Courier). Note that all of these articles come from the same organization, The Gazette. Per WP:GNG, "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability." So it seems to me that so far the only sources that contribute to proving notability are considered one source in the context of WP:GNG, so with the information given so far, this Wikipedia article should be removed. It also seems to fail WP:ORG for similar reasons (see WP:MULTSOURCES and WP:ORGCRITE). TheGEICOgecko (talk) 00:27, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep Present article flawed but notability is established via multiple sources and the discounting of the Courier and Gazette sources seems to be an errant application of the ORG regulations. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD discussion has been proposed for merger to Colorado Springs, Colorado, and a notice of the proposed merger was posted to that page on June 22. As such, this AfD discussion may need to be extended or relisted to incorporate input from that page.

Oppose merger, support keeping the article now that notability is proven (I am the nominator) The article subject is too minor to be mentioned in the Colorado Springs article. Tube·of·Light 05:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.