Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hellmouth (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite the sources put forward there is a consensus that this topic is not notable. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:03, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hellmouth (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

No evidence this fictional location passes WP:GNG, WP:NFICTION and like. BEFORE fails to find anything that is not an in-universe WP:PLOT summary. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:50, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:50, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:13, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Crappy article, decent topic. Hellmouths have received plenty of attention in Buffy studies; Slayage, a peer-reviewed journal focussing on Whedon's work, has a lot of articles with "Hellmouth" in the title - and not just Slayage. See here. And that's before we get to journalistic or otherwise non-scholarly (but reliable) sources. Even if this isn't it, I'm sure that a strong article could be written about this topic. Josh Milburn (talk) 14:17, 3 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @J Milburn: I saw those sources, but the problem is that none that I found discusses the concept of "Hellmouth" in detail, all I see is effectively a short PLOT-like summary. I am afraid it is one of those cases where a term may be popular enough to become worthy of includion in a dictionary, but not encyclopedia. But I am open to seeing any evidence of analysis of what Hellmouth is, its significance, etc. But right now we are at a stage of WP:GOOGLEHITS. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:39, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - My argument isn't that there are lots of Google hits; my argument is that there are reliable sources ostensibly about the concept. I understand your claim that the sources don't discuss the concept of the Hellmouth, though. I suggest that this paper and this paper contain a decent amount of analysis; there's more out there that I've not really looked at (non-English, paywall, etc.) which may be promising - this looks very interesting, for example. There are also lots of smaller mentions that go well beyond plot summary; there seems to be a good bit about the difficulties associated with the Hellmouth as a metaphor for (or mirroring) the difficulties faced by adolescents, and about the role of the Hellmouth in the show, and about the significance of ways that characters go about trying to open the Hellmouth. Again, while I don't think that this article is very good, I do think that a very strong article could be written. Josh Milburn (talk) 07:56, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    - [1] does not appear to be reliable (fan article?). Your second link has expired, can you link it again in a way that will work for others? I will try to access the third article form my uni later, it doesn't appear to be on Library Genesis :( --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:27, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      - The first article is from Slayage, which is a peer-reviewed journal published by a scholarly society. (The link I gave was to a fansite, but here is the same article on the journal's website.) I admit their formatting leaves a lot to be desired, but it's undoubtedly a reliable source. (And the author is an associate professor at CUNY.) The second article, also from Slayage, is this. Josh Milburn (talk) 10:17, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect or weak selective merge to Buffy the Vampire Slayer#Setting and filming locations, where the concept is already covered with WP:DUEWEIGHT. The article is currently a mix of WP:PLOT and WP:OR, neither of which necessitates a stand-alone article. The "References in other works" section is the biggest plus point of the article in regards to WP:NOTABILITY, but it's overall pretty trivial as pass-by mentions. I have no prejudice against recreating the article with proper sources and scholar analysis per Josh Milburn's comments, but there have been no attempts to include them in the past 15 years. Until then, there is simply no need for a WP:SPINOFF. – sgeureka ^t•c 09:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Pure PLOT. Fails GNG/NFICTION.Kacper IV (talk) 12:26, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Redirect to Buffy the Vampire Slayer#Setting and filming locations, per Sgeureka. Not individually notable but can be mentioned in context._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 20:21, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.