Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Skala (sports organization)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. stub with potential to grow. Relisting isn't likely to grow any more consensus. TravellingCari 04:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Skala (sports organization)

Article does not assert notability. VG ☎ 17:46, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 17:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article is a stub, but it's referenced from a scholarly book. --Eastmain (talk) 20:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mentioned in passing if you look at the page numbers. VG ☎ 21:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am all for expanding articles related to Polish history, but I am concerned about notability here. Not all organizations are notable. Why would this one be? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 04:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Never heard of the Jewish Section of the Communist Party of Poland. Communists were rather over-nationalistic, their motto: proletarians of all nations, unite, not separate. Looks like an OR to me, but I may be wrong. It needs some explanation, and now is the best time to do it. greg park avenue (talk) 14:06, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, notability might be an issue, but its certainly not an OR issue. Jewish sections were established in many communist parties at the time (see Yevsektsia), and the reference clearly identifies the organisation as connected to the Jewish section of the Communist Party. --Soman (talk) 17:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me; still, we need something to make this article notable, say, a name of a notable sportsman who made it to the Olymplics, or if not at least to the National Championship or any notable competition. Otherwise, it looks like a Little League in Baseball or a Day Care Squad in Soccer. Thanks. greg park avenue (talk) 01:08, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete per A7. Perhaps this line belongs in an article about Judaism in Poland or Communism in Poland or ~~Communism and Judaism~~ Jewish Communists or somesuch, but it certainly doesn't compose one all on its own. (If it were actually marked as a stub, I wouldn't say this; that alone would be an implicit claim of notability. But it's not.) –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 04:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As per Eastmain's observations. Ecoleetage (talk) 01:30, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Piotrus, can you see if there are any references. Sports clubs like this usually do get into publications, though this is almost certainly pre-Google. DGG (talk) 03:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is one other definite hit (different book) in Google books. Based on the snipped I can read on Google, it's still only a mention in passing. You can definitely mention it one of the substantive articles Aponar gave, but a separate article seems unwarranted. VG ☎ 16:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Which book is that? i couldn't identify it (it's not in top 10 hits when i google). --Soman (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Emancipation Through Muscles by Michael Brenner, Gideon Reuveni, Universität München Institute of Jewish History. VG ☎ 18:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry, it's the same book that's cited in the article. And mentions Skala in one short sentence "At least one local sports club---Skala (Rock)---consisted primarily of members of the Jewish Section of the Communist Party." Nowhere near enough to base an article on. VG ☎ 18:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, http://www.olszowka.most.org.pl/histspzyd.htm seems to mention Jewish Communist sports movement in the 1930s. Could anyone give a translation to Komunistyczna Partia Polski i ZKM zrzeszały w 1927 roku 76 klubów żydowskich? Also, could the name 'Skala' be incorrect? --Soman (talk) 17:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: from a few minutes research, it seems this was an initiative of the CP Jewish sections during the Popular Front era. It was one of the competing organisations of social/sports clubs tied to political parties during the inter-war years in Europe and the US. Its the same thing as the Maccabi clubs (Zionist), Hapoel clubs (Labour-Zionist), etc. I'll add a couple of leads for refs on the article talk page. T L Miles (talk) 18:10, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I hope those references are better than two sentences in a book (I checked page 99 as well; it is another one-sentence mention). WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a good argument. VG ☎ 18:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. -- VG ☎ 18:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. There seems to be enough material for an article on interbellum Jewish sport organizations (history), but I don't see enough material about Skala to meet the notability guidelines, let alone those for organizations: The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. VG ☎ 18:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- How about moving to Jewish Communist sports movements in interbellum Poland? --Soman (talk) 19:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, no nontrivial references in reliable sources. Stifle (talk) 14:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep But please expand a bit - way too stubby and also contextualize notability. Sources do seem to exist but we're dealing with timewarp issues (most sources arguably offline) and likely language barriers. Also noot some sources on talk page. -- Banjeboi 19:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Jewish section of the Communist Party, mentioned at http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN9027932395&id=82ncGA4GuN4C&pg=PA362&lpg=PA362&ots=wlRamGIAQ3&dq=zydokomuna+endeks&sig=oiNo2S0bQl7bW6EUb3edvKEcKXg#PPA290,M1 . --Soman (talk) 08:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.