Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of Pennsylvania Glee Club

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is consensus that the sources added to the article are enough to meet WP:SIGCOV. (non-admin closure) Qwaiiplayer (talk) 15:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

University of Pennsylvania Glee Club

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It does not appear to be the case that reliable sources on this page (or ones I could find) cover the club in-depth enough in a manner that is separate from the University of Pennsylvania for the club to be independently notable, especially in light of WP:RSSM. In the absence of reliable sources independent of both Penn and the club, the club's page should be deleted. While a user commented on the talk page about the supposed "a lot more here than WP:RSSM", a cursory view of the google news results provided did not show substantial coverage by newspapers that were both independent of the University and not student media. Searches of other areas show many works written by people who were in the club that reference their time there, but the works that cover the Penn Glee Club in a substantial manner are plainly not independent of the club itself. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 06:42, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 06:58, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 06:58, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Most of the references are not independent of the University - needs independent RS Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:45, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I added some references from Arizona Republic and WHYY-FM. A note on independence: A university's book publishing press makes its publishing decisions independently of the university, and any good student newspaper is barely on speaking terms with the university administration. There are also some relevant comments under the heading "Proposed deletion" on the article's talk page. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 08:28, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If university's book publishing press makes its publishing decisions independently of the university is with reference to the memoir that is currently cited multiple times throughout the book, the main independence problem is that the guy was employed by the club for about fifty years and is telling his own life story; he may have editors, but we generally don't count autobiographies towards notability.

Regarding any good student newspaper is barely on speaking terms with the university administration: sure? To the best of my knowledge WP:RSSM is justified more in that student media tends to be hyperlocal to a University, and thus extremely mundane things that occur at the university will get picked up by student media; student media's coverage also generally does not itself provide evidence that the subject is independently notable from the University, owing to that same hyperlocal scope. This is on top of reliability and independence issues that student media generally face. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 04:32, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Rather a lot of independent reliable substantial sources really. First three I found: [1][2][3] Thincat (talk) 18:23, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
None of those articles go really any more in-depth into the club than something along the lines of "this glee club will be playing at a local venue," even mentioning how to purchase tickets. In many ways, those articles feel like an old version of churnalism that doesn't provide more coverage of the club than a simple press release would. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 21:56, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am reading "Now in its second century, the University of Pennsylvania Glee Club is recognized internationally as one of the outstanding groups of its kind in the country. It also is known as a chorus of unique versatility. Highlights of the past few seasons have included shows in major cities of the United States, Puerto Rico, South America and Eastern Europe that have won rave reviews from the public and press alike. The Glee Club incorporates dramatic lighting and scenic effects, unorthodox groupings on the stage, frequent costume changes, irrepressible humor and pertinent essays in several media." This accounts for my different assessment. Thincat (talk) 13:05, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I just added about a ½ dozen references that have no direct connection with the UoP. I do not buy Deathlibrarian's argument that it needs "references [that] are not independent of the University". This is not an article about the University, it is about the Glee Club, & neither it nor student press have published much that is in the citations. WP:RSSM is specifically about student media, & I only see a few citations that fit into this category. I think that in this light that most editors would agree that my comment on the talk page that there is "a lot more here than WP:RSSM". Make your argument on other grounds, because WP:RSSM/student media is not getting much traction here. Peaceray (talk) 00:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as there are numerous independent references.Jackattack1597 (talk) 21:32, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV and criteria 1 of WP:MUSICBIO.4meter4 (talk) 15:13, 21 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.