This is brills!

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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
mortimermcmirestinks
mortimermcmirestinks

Think of the worst person you know. If you could put them in one of two prisons, one of which is a magic chill prison which doesn't hurt them AT ALL but keeps them away from the public, and the other of which is a harm prison which hurts them a lot -- and, importantly, in both of these situations NOBODY AT ALL will EVER know that this person has been sent to EITHER prison -- would you put them in one of the prisons or not. no due process needed, in this hypothetical God has personally confirmed to you that this person is as bad as you think they are

yes I would put them in the chill prison

yes I would put them in the harm prison

I would not put them in either prison

[see results]

i said chill prison assuming it's the worst person i actually know (which is what i assume is the meaning based on the wording) if it was the worst person i know OF.... hurt prison. absolutely. this made me realize that i'm genuinely not sure who the worst person i know is so that's good probably someone i went to school with who's now super right wing or some shit but i don't have to regularly interact with anyone super awful i'll take that as a win polls
fairandfatalasfair
sketiana

to this day i cannot BELIEVE aang called up and blew off like nine avatars just because they didnt offer any vegan options to ending the war

pikameme-dayo

roku: my best friend assaulted me as a senior citizen :(

kyoshi: sometimes some murder is OK

kuruk: just punch people that disagree with you

aang: okay i’m starting to think that none of you took this avatar thing seriously

teeveew

You're not wrong

image
aboutiroh

Aang when he is told he’s the Avatar at age 12: *has a melt down because he understands the seriousness of this function and the consequences his new responsibilities will have on his personal life* 

other Avatars at age 16: I’m the avatar? Cool! Hey look it comes with a glowing eyes feature! 

aviculor

aang: fuck this noise, i’ll get advice from the last air nomad avatar

yangchen: i gave up that hippie bullshit first chance i got, i love murder

hedge-rambles

I will never not laugh at the bit where Aang is like "finally, an Air Nomad, you get me, right?" and Yangchen just says "sorry bud, I also vote murder".

A close second on that note is of course the trial of Kyoshi in which she manifests in the courtroom just to say "Actually, I did murder him and I'd do it again. But consider: the bitch had it coming".

kittyissac

#tbh I think there's something to be said for the fact that Aang was 12 when he ran away from home#and how there's more than a bit of evidence that the adult airbenders had a less strict pacifistic approach#Aang was purposefully sheltered by Gyatsu to protect his childhood and so he has the ethics of a child#and when he awoke there were no other air nomads around to sit him down and have The Violence Talk#about how yes we're pacifists and murder is bad but there are exceptions#like Gyatsu was a kindly man of the highest order but uh#he didn't just lay down and die on a pile of skulls he just found#man went out taking like 20 fire nation soldiers with him#Aang: ''I could never kill! Gyatsu taught me to abhor all forms of violence“”#Gyatsu: deals out death to attacking soldiers like he's got a side hustle as a claymore mine

zarohk

And the fact that he figures out a more technically complex and socially stable way to remove Ozai without making him a martyr just shows that he has a lot more skill at the problem at hand than most the previous ones.

To me, that whole scene was very much the previous avatars saying “when all you have is a hammer” and Aang going “okay, but what can I do with this Swiss Army knife?” and they don’t give very useful advice about it.

tamer-of-jabberwocks

Personally I also don't think the prior Avatars were all that helpful, but they weren't all saying murder was okay. Aang's there asking for help with Avatar skills because he'd had so minimal training, maybe there's something in the toolbox he doesn't know how to use yet, but they're all trying to make him comfortable with using the hammer he already has and knows how to use. What they were saying was what they thought he needed to hear, based on what they regretted most from how they'd acted as Avatars, and what they thought was most needed here.

Roku regretted not killing Sozin specifically because it gave him the opportunity to come back and kill him, then the Air Nomads. His lack of decisive action led to a lot of tragedy, and so his advice was to make sure whatever he did, make sure it was permanent, or Ozai would come back.

Kyoshi regretted not moving sooner on the threat of Shin the Conqueror and waiting until he was at the very edge of Kyoshi Peninsula before actually doing anything. She allowed a lot of destruction on the continent because she didn't move fast enough. Her advice is to move swiftly instead of allowing Ozai more time to act.

Kuruk basically did nothing as Avatar by his own admission and basically just said that Aang had to do something, and not to back off of his responsibilities because it was hard.

Yangchen is complicated because, well, she isn't talking about one of her own regrets. She's the one trying to give the 'Violence is sometimes necessary' talk to Aang, because she's the best person to tell him his duties as Avatar have to outweigh his duties as an Airbender. Arguably she is the one telling him to murder Ozai, but personally I read that as more 'you need to do what's right for the world, and I am giving you permission to break our cultural rules to do that. Because I am the only person you can ask for absolution.'

They were all trying to offer him spiritual guidance and support, but Aang wasn't looking for emotional support here, he was looking for solutions. Because he had already decided he wouldn't kill Ozai. No advice or absolution was really going to change that he already knew he wouldn't do it.

atla aang
periwinkle-polkadots-blog
sthilarions

I may be forgetting something that suggests otherwise, but - I wonder if Charles was a very different person when he was alive. And I don’t mean that in terms of like, maybe he was a bully and reformed in death. I mean in terms of identity and presentation and relation to others (and especially authority).

Because the thing is, right. We look at Charles and we see a cool punk, right?

But that’s not the clothes he died in. He didn’t die in a battle jacket.

Because, right. He seems to have gone back and forth between living with his father - presumably a high-control environment - and St. Hilarion’s - ie institutionalized. So when was he going to all these alleged concerts? Where was he getting the punk clothes? What authority did he know that he was able to stand up to?

It’s fully possible that he was sneaking out, and earning un-monitored money somehow, and so forth, of course. But… I just keep thinking… we sorta just take Charles’s implied word for it that he was cool, you know? That he was a Rude Boy. (Although, actually, all he really tells us is that he spent his life desperately trying to be “good” enough for his father.)

So what if he was exactly who you’d expect from someone who grew up caught between extreme abuse and institutional control? What if kicking his mates off that boy was the first act of rebellion in his life (and the last)?

In short, what if that whole identity - just like the jacket and the patches and the rest of his look - was posthumous?

What if he died, and the first thing he wanted to do for himself, when he realized no one could stop him anymore, was to go to a concert, because he’d never been and always wanted to? What if Edwin helped him learn to stand up to authority figures like he helped Edwin learn to express himself freely? What if both of them only became themselves after death, together?

playfulpawing

100% this. I think he likely yearned to inhabit the persona he does now during life but spent all his time trying to conform to what his father wanted.

It is precisely this concept that makes me wonder if he would have seen some bigger changes in Edwin’s external presentation in season two.

Because while Charles likely threw off the shackles of all that he was suppressing in his efforts to assimilate in life, Edwin was still thoroughly denying himself that freedom. He defaults to his school uniform, clothes he no doubt felt helped him to fit in and hide his true nature by making him present as more like his peers than he truly felt.

I bet we would have seen if not a complete shift away from his normal suit (let’s face it it does suit Edwin’s personality in some ways) still a bit more variety. Like his Creeping Forest dress down.

We may have even seen something like Charles’s mood shirt now that Edwin isn’t keeping as much of a lid on his emotions.

ooh excellent addition dbda dead boy detectives charles rowland edwin payne
sthilarions
sthilarions

I may be forgetting something that suggests otherwise, but - I wonder if Charles was a very different person when he was alive. And I don’t mean that in terms of like, maybe he was a bully and reformed in death. I mean in terms of identity and presentation and relation to others (and especially authority).

Because the thing is, right. We look at Charles and we see a cool punk, right?

But that’s not the clothes he died in. He didn’t die in a battle jacket.

Because, right. He seems to have gone back and forth between living with his father - presumably a high-control environment - and St. Hilarion’s - ie institutionalized. So when was he going to all these alleged concerts? Where was he getting the punk clothes? What authority did he know that he was able to stand up to?

It’s fully possible that he was sneaking out, and earning un-monitored money somehow, and so forth, of course. But… I just keep thinking… we sorta just take Charles’s implied word for it that he was cool, you know? That he was a Rude Boy. (Although, actually, all he really tells us is that he spent his life desperately trying to be “good” enough for his father.)

So what if he was exactly who you’d expect from someone who grew up caught between extreme abuse and institutional control? What if kicking his mates off that boy was the first act of rebellion in his life (and the last)?

In short, what if that whole identity - just like the jacket and the patches and the rest of his look - was posthumous?

What if he died, and the first thing he wanted to do for himself, when he realized no one could stop him anymore, was to go to a concert, because he’d never been and always wanted to? What if Edwin helped him learn to stand up to authority figures like he helped Edwin learn to express himself freely? What if both of them only became themselves after death, together?

oof that hurts my heart but also i really like it because we know/can surmise that edwin is much more expressive than he was when he was alive so it's not out of the question for charles to be too charles rowland dead boy detectives dbda
majorlb
l-nightmare

Just imagining Charles and Edwin having found that original empty place to call their agency. Getting some old furniture and putting the official “Dead Boy Detectives Agency” title on the door.

It’s just a random old room in some random old building, but it’ll do nicely.

Slowly filling the shelves with magic books and objects from cases they’ve solved. Adding some books they just personally like and may read through together every once in a while, a few knickknacks from some fun adventures the boys have gone on together, maybe even just some things they like end up decorating the room too.

After so many years you can’t look anywhere in the room without being reminded of those many years Charles and Edwin have spent together since that very first day. And at some point the old couch and chairs go from some old furniture they’d found to a place where they can sit down and rest, and the scratches in the wood from their antics or a result of being on a case are proof that this place in truly theirs and not just some place they can stay for the time being.

Suddenly, one day, these two boys who never had a real home while they were alive look around at the life they’ve built around them and realize that without even trying to, they’ve made themselves a home.

aww i love this charles rowland edwin payne payneland dead boy detectives dbda
majorlb
paraphwrites

charles never finished orpheus and eurydice, a three page myth. does that not encompass the whole of his character? he strives for distraction after distraction, things to entertain, things to stimulate. the myth was boring so instead he learned kickboxing. he needed to move and you can't move while you read. he never finished the myth. he never finished the story so he chose his own ending. he decided it would be happy because charles is a romantic, and who cares if virtually all greek myths end in tragedy? charles would defy fate a thousand times over for edwin. but they have to keep moving. they can't wait on the stairs, charles knows that, edwin knows that, they all know that. they have to keep going. charles never finished the myth and edwin did and if they don't keep going their story will end too. charles never finished the myth so he was not resigned to the ending and so their story did not end. edwin did finish the myth and he chose to have hope anyway so their story did not end. your story does not have a set ending your story is not over. their story is not over because i did not finish the myth

payneland charles rowland edwin payne dead boy detectives dbda
majorlb
sthilarions

How do you think Edwin feels when cases end with someone being taken to Hell?

I was going to say “in the early years” but I don’t really think he’d feel any better about it as time goes on, based on what we see, actually. There’d probably be less fear mixed in, over time, as they ran away over and over and escaped every time. And I’m sure it was worst the first time. I’d imagine Edwin probably tried to shut down the Agency on the spot, actually, that time.

Partly from fear - he wouldn’t have known yet how far he’d have to run, to keep the whipping tentacles of Hell from yanking at his feet - but just as much, I think, because someone just got taken to Hell and it was because of something he did and he could hear them screaming as they fell. Because he sent someone to Hell and he may not have meant to do it but the boys who sent him didn’t, either.

I imagine he’d get used to it some over the years, but in the way that someone with chronic pain starts to notice it less and work through it more - not because it hurts less, but because it hurts always. Because we know that even after three and a half decades he meets the boy who literally killed him and condemned him to decades of torment, and his response was to try to rescue him from Hell.

Because, the thing is, Edwin knows Hell. And he knows that infinite torture can never be proportionate for finite sin.

And what about the times when they weren’t expecting it? Because there had to be some. They took Brad and Hunter’s case, after all; ghosts do not wear their sin on their sleeves. There had to be times when they’d solved a case, and the client handed them their payment, and they were ready to run from the blue light and they heard the growl of Hell instead.

And they probably wouldn’t ever even know why, wouldn’t know what their client had done to get marked to go Down. All Edwin would know is that he was the one that made it happen. He solved the case, he let the client move on, he tried to help and now he can hear their screams mixed with the howls of the damned.

I’m not saying I think he’s some sort of anti-carceral saint; it did take him a few minutes, after all, to decide to help Simon. I’m sure there were a few times when someone deeply awful had hurt Charles or a client and Edwin saw the red light and found he didn’t mind all that much.

But… not many, I think.

edwin payne dead boy detectives dbda