User talk:Bèrto 'd Sèra

Hello almost-homonymous :-). Just a minor point: the babelfish templates are created as needed and are not meant to cover all possible languages spoken around the world. If you want/need a pms-M babel template be bold and create it, no one will be angry at you becuse of that ;-). If you have problems in creating the template just ask help or copy it from other babel templates. Ciao! --Berto 07:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• Hi! :)) LOL yes, it's what I'm going to do :) Honestly, I thought templates where not that easy to be managed, and did not even look for a way to do it. I thought that probably developers would not want to risk an incredible inflation in the number of existing templates and chose to keep them locked... Luckily, I was wrong :) So yes, I'm going to make myself one :) --Bertodsera 09:03, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Press contact details

If you are receiving this message, you are either a new, existing, or possible future press contact for one of the languages you speak. What does this mean, being a press contact?

The Wikimedia Foundation runs a Communications Committee, which co-ordinates requests for interviews from the press. When we receive a request for an interview, often the journalist wants to interview someone that speaks their "native tongue", or someone that lives in the same country as their publication. For this reason, it is important the the Communications Committee keeps an up-to-date log of contributors that they can trust to represent the community in a professional manner.

This list of press contacts has started to grow. The goal is to eventually have at least one trusted user on the list from every country in the world, and one user for every language that the Foundation runs a project in.

What are your responsibilities? Whenever a journalist requests an interview, either by phone, by e-mail, or (rarely) in person, you are able to either answer the interview request, or pass the request off to another user that you trust. Whenever a newsworthy milestone is reached on your project, you should help co-ordinate the creation of a press release, and once it's ready, send it to me to post in your language's press room.

Any questions, comments, or concerns? Contact me directly. -- en:user_talk:zanimum

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• Hi

Thank you for your support for South Azerbaijani wiki. BayBak--Baybak 04:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

pms template

Hi Berto, I have copied/pasted pms template from English Wikipedia. See you. (not so soon, I am afraid).--clamengh 14:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Approval of wikipedia in Belarusian (normative) language?

Hi, sorry for trespassing on your time, but could you, as a member of m:Special projects subcommittees/New languages, give the issue Talk:Special_projects_subcommittees/New_languages#Approval of wikipedia in Belarusian (normative) language? a look? Thank you. Yury Tarasievich 11:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your support for the future bel.wikipedia.org

Blog

Hello,

is your blog going to post about Wikimedia projects, or about I-TER? The first post tagged wiki doesn't really seem to have much of a connection...-Eloquence 22:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Kabyle wikipedia

I have had a look at the piedmontese wikipedia, I really liked the interface, very good looking. It seems you're using templates to display an explicative column (i liked that idea too), however I wanted to ask you about a political issue (if it's an issue) : did some people complain about the Piedmont flag? does it have a separatist meaning to some people?

Just to give you an example, the berber flag was designed in the sixties by a group of kabyles and officialized by all berbers in the canary islands (a separtist guanche movement hosted the conference...), it was seen seen as political threat in north african countries (some poeple got in jail because of it) but not anymore since it gathers disparsed human population with no geographic continuity, but if we use a kabyle flag (one people, one language, one land) in the Kabyle wiki I guess it would have a significant and direct political message and many people would complain (including kabyles!).Agurzil 12:59, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

PS: We're already using a kabyle flag in the incubator (since the first page was created), and no one complained, but I'm pretty sure it won't be the case in the official wiki.Agurzil 13:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi! yes, it's a two part template with explanations and news. We have a very low alphabetization rate (around 2%) so it's vital for us to deliver instructions on all access points. The flag is the official flag of the Piedmont region, where the language originated. It is exposed on all administrative buildings of the same region, so it can hardly have a political value. There are different positions among the members of the piemontese community at large, but I'm not aware of clear separatist trends inside our wiki community. In any case, when we opened the wiki we had one right wing and one left wing (the latter is me) making up the admin structure, to avoid having a dominant political tinge. Whatever the ideas, any political movement (pro or against the secession) needs people to be able to read what they write, before they can campaign. Also, having a clearly identified political direction is enough to be shut down by wmf :) and it does keep lots of people out of the wiki, as they think that is "something for the radicals". So we decided that it was better to consider the wiki as a "common asset" for all political tendencies and avoid clearly disbalanced stances. So far it works. When you have to "invent the language" for many topics that aren't in the traditional vocabulary you are going to face enough practical problems to keep the people concentrated on the language, and not on politics. Feel free to ask any question that may be of help to you :) Send me an email from here if it's urgent, as you noticed I can be pretty casual in my passages here. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 22:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Latgalian representative

Re: URGENT A native latgalian speaker who can represent the latgalian community please urgently contact LangCom. You can send mail from the user pages of GerardM or Bèrto 'd Sèra.

Hi, Bèrto 'd Sèra, I am a native speaker of Latgalian, I grow up in my family using spoken and written Latgalian. I am an active member of Latgalian Wikipedia and can represent the community. Stiernīts 18:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Extremaduran Wikipedia

Hello! I´m one of the people working on the Extremaduran Wikipedia proyect, and i´ve seen that it has been conditionally approved, but i´m not sure about the meaning of this, could you help me? What have people who work on this proyect to do now? When there will be a final decision?... I don´t know a lot ^^... i hope you will be the person who i have to contact, if not, sorry for the inconvenience. PD.- I forgot asking you about "a translated user interface", how can i translate the user interface?

Greetings, and thanks! 81.37.40.40 16:14, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

You should better send me mail using this link because it's much quicker. You don't have a userpage here so I can only hope you'll come and check for an answer :) Conditionally approved means that all formal conditions are present, your language can have a wiki and we encourage you to:

1. continue to work on your text project, which seems to be doing quite well
2. translate the interface at betawiki.

When you open the betawiki page you find a language selector. In the next days the field for Extremaduran will appear. Please contact me on my mail as the process maybe a bit complicated in the beginning. Once you have the interface you are basically ready to go online --Bèrto 'd Sèra 18:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi! I send you a message, but i think i didn´t do it right, so i´ll write you here this message, i´ve seen the link you gave me, but i don´t know what to do... I´m a little bit confused... there says that i needed to create an account, i did it, and now i need an autorizaton, how can i get it? I need some help please...

Thanks! Better 20:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Bèrto. I am an Extremaduran speaker living in Extremadura. I guess you have possibly accepted the Extremaduran Wikipedia (Incubator) because you are Piedmontese and like minority languages to have an own Wikipedia, an option I respect and support. Me too, I would like to have a Wikipedia written in Extremaduran the sooner the better. But, you have accepted the proposal of a group of (4 or 5) friends - the links to the websites posted in the proposal page itself lead you to them -, without any support whatsoever from any association or institution related to the language. They are not only using their own personal orthography, but also trying to promote a personal grammar from their Incubator Wikipedia (as far as I've read) - as well as trying to write in "Olivenza Portuguese", "A Fala" and other speeches and/or dialects used in Extremadura - someone should make something about this, and I don't know why we Extremadurans should care about trying to stop them from promoting such wrong writings, when they haven't questioned anyone or announced their Wikipedia anywhere in the net or in our education centres. I feel sorry about this, but languages should have an official or non-official institution which cares about and gives guides on its regulation, and the Wikipedia is not the right place to do it. On one hand, to promote the language through Wikipedia articles is great (I think), but, on the other, to use it to promote individual ideas of a person or group of people about a language, its affiliation and writing system, is a shame - this Encyclopedia deserves something more serious. Even if we didn't have a regulator, but there were a big group of decided Extremadurans, it would be right to use the Free Encyclopedia to promote a new orthography. But to use it to promote the (probably wrong) choice of two or three Extremadura fans (I doubt they even speak it at home), it's not the aim. There are some traditional writings out there in Extremaduran (Gabriel y Galán, "El Prencipinu", "El Ebanheliu sigún San Huan", etc.) that could be used to promote a writing, but they are not even following any of those alternative orthographies - or any rule whatsoever, apparently. In my opinion, the Wikipedia in Extremaduran should be kept indefinitely as Incubator - or completely frozen - until there is a real organization (not a group of recently created Mediawiki usernames who could lead to the same user...) to back such efforts - As the Academia de la Llingua Asturiana for Asturian, or the Concello d'a Fabla Aragonesa for Aragonese, and so on. Wikipedia is maybe (or maybe not) the right place to promote minority languages, but is certainly not the right place to promote personal views about the language, to advertise personal grammars to be sold and promote personal names and websites. I think you should recommend them (or maybe just "him") clearly to look for official or institutional support, to promote the creation of an association or foundation (the only requirement under Spanish law is that more than two people associate), and then to promote institutionally their own language learning methods, grammar, rules, etc. and then come again with a minimum of rules and support to write Encyclopedic content... If not, they should look for official or institutional support right now before continuing this nonsense. Neron 10:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

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I'm also an Extremaduran speaker living in Extremadura and born in Extremadura. I have started to collaborate in the Extremaduran Wikipedia (in this article [1], for example) and intend to go on collaborating. I'm not at all a friend of the other Extremaduran collaborators, I do often speak Extremaduran and I USE MY OWN ORTHOGRAPHY, different from the ones the rest of people in the Extremaduran Wikipedia use. There's not any conflict going on because of that and there won't be. I have recently met other wikipedians who use other orthographies in the net and there hasn't been any trouble at all. There is NO official orthography for Extremaduran, but most wikipedians there use Ismael Carmona's because he has systematized the orthography to an extent few people have tried to, regardless of weather it's the best orthography or not. But nobody is compelled to use that orthography, I don't even do it and I see no trouble there, although some people try to create trouble where there isn't any, as I can see.

I usually understand anything written in Extremaduran, regardless of the orthography they use.

Other wikipedias, like for example [2] the Sicilian Wikipedia or [3] the Lombard Wikipedia have no orthography sanctioned by any organisation, but an orthography or several orthographies agreed by the wikipedians themselves, maybe they don't even have an official one. Articles in the lombard wikipedia are written in a variety of orthographies and standards. Discussions about orthography are welcomed in the extremaduran wikipedia. If somebody doesn't agree with the way somebody writes, he's free to discuss about the orthography other people use, to collaborate writing articles with the orthography he supports or to suggest alternative orthographies. As many other wikipedias, we don't need an orthography sanctioned by an organisation. Sicilian wikipedians and others are also promoting a kind of orthography not agreed by any organisation, but if that kind of issues don't entail any trouble for other wikipedias, it shoudn't in the Extremaduran one either. Anyone's opinion about other people's orthography is a personal opinion.

What was written in Olivença Portuguese is very, very little, one article maybe (the one about Olivença itself), is something quite neglected, and shouldn't be there, but that's something anecdotal, like some Castilian Spanish or English that can be found in some stubs in the Extremaduran wikipedia like in other wikipedias.

Extremaduran has its own ISO code and has people collaborating in the Wikipedia. What else do we need?

Now it's more important to USE the Extremaduran language than the way people write in Extremaduran or orthographic issues. I don't agree with the way many people write Extremaduran, but I don't see the point of complaining. The Extremaduran language doesn't have to wait at all. --Ringurrangu 06:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

There is but ONE organization whose support is needed in order to get a positive answer: it is called ISO 639-3. No other voice will be relevant, as per policy. Different orthographies are not a problem LangCom deals with, it's up to communities to make their choice(s). --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

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My ABSOLUTELY personal suggestion is that you reflect on the quantity of effort people need in order to learn 4-5 different orthographies at the same time. We use but one orthography in pms.wiki, and it worked pretty well in making up a community, since it's the same used in books. I know that many languages do not have a unique orthograpgy, yet IMHO you would get more people to help you if you could make a unified version. I repeat, this is NOT at any level something LangCom considers in order to approve or refuse a project. It is but a practical suggestion that you are free to send to dustbin :) --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Korean Hanja Wikipedia

Please read this. I want your answer about Korean Hanja Wikipedia. --Masoris 18:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

About the new technical solution for Kor. Hanja WP

(From Talk:Special projects subcommittees/Languages#May Korean Hanja Wikipedia be approved?)

Hi, I'm Yes0song participating in opening Korean Wikipedia written in mixed script of Hangul and Hanja.

You refered the new technical solution on that page. Is "the new technical solution" a method which let same-contented articles (written in different writing system) coexist in a same wiki? If my understanding is correct and the solution will be developed, I think it will be useful not in only Korean but also other languages such Vietnamese. Currently Vietnamese Wikipedia is being written in Chữ Quốc Ngữ (Latin alphabet script of the language), but the language can be also written in Hán Tự (Chinese characters; incubator). Both the automatic conversion of Chữ Quốc Ngữ-to-Hán Tự and Hán Tự-toChữ Quốc Ngữ are impossible[4], but these different scripts will be able to coexist as introducing the solution. :D --Yes0song 17:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Frieda

Ciao Bèrto, I found Frieda has no translation of her platform in Piemontese. Do you think is it okay in regard to equal opportunity? I'd like to listen to your opinion about that. --Aphaia 19:56, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Please reply it

Masoris left a message on Talk:Special projects subcommittees/Languages#New solution. Please answer to him. --Yes0song 06:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I made a new comment, I'm waiting your respond. --Masoris 04:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia

Bèrto 'd Sèra, The current discussions about the proposal for conditional approval of the Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia are followed eagerly by contributors and members of this test project. As you would know this rather successful test Wikipedia has been active for over a year and there has been almost no change in status, or no feed back, so any move brings a hope for a step forward.

I respect your opinion on viability of some Wikipedias and not others, but I feel some point of views (of contributors) are not being taken into account.

The only opposing argument for the go ahead seems to be: - Ottoman Turkish is a historical and dead language, if it was classical language like Latin it would be a different case.

May I point out, that Ottoman Turkish is indeed Classical Turkish. THis language may be categorised as historical, but not so sure if it is dead language. Indeed it has never been a colloquial language and as a literary language it has evolved and in use as a Classical Turkish. For instance I have brought up in a Bahá'í family and have come to know some daily texts and prayers we use in Azeri Turkish are in fact Ottoman Turkish. You can also come a cross Ottoman web sites such as this one [5] with some religious contents, and tools for teaching Ottoman Turkish to kids[6]].

Ottoman Turkish is classical Turkish and thousands of books and documents are written in this language. Naturally the Ottoman Turkish is not as known as Latin in the European literary circles, but it is indeed a classical language by any definition. That is all classical Turkish and Azerbaijani literature up until early twentieth century are written in this language.

Indeed approval of Ottoman Turkish would not set any precedence. WIth a quick look I could find following historical languages as active Wikipedias (there could be more) :

• Old Church Slavonic language ,
• Classical Chinese language,
• Latin language
• Sanskrit language

Ottoman Turkish within 621 years of Ottoman Empire has been used in a geographic region extending from Central Europe to Central Asia and the literary work if not more than some of the above, it is not least in number or importance.

We appreciate your involvement and other members of the Subcommittee in the discussion and hope for the positive outcome of the decision. --Mehrdad 18:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

ISO Code and Ottoman Language

Bèrto 'd Sèra, as I am following the discussions on proposed approval of Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia, noticed that you argue against the approval on the bases of ISO code designation. I would like to bring to your attention that according to Ethnologue, ISO code on ota also covered ISO code tur , as a vibrant living language. I invite you to have a look at the explanation on the process and reaseaning behind this at this URL:

http://www.ethnologue.com/14/show_iso639.asp?code=tur

My aim is to demonstrate that even so the Ottoman language "officially" ceased to exist, but in reality as you would agree no one can kill a language just by decree. in 1928 for political purpose initially only the writing system changed from perso-arabic to Latin. The following gradual but wide vocabulary change followed in later decades, and resulted in differences between Ottoman and modern Turkish.

In the list of countries where Turkish is spoken please note the alternative name for the language as OSMANLI, which is the self-name for Ottoman.

Please note that: - In countries outside of Turkey, the Turkish is not a state language, much like piedmontese in Italy. - Most of the states where this language is spoken are doing their best to prevent its continuity, for various reasons. - In Iran state likes to make the Farsi/Persian the only national language as a unifying effort for the nationalistic purpose. - In some East European countries Ottoman languge it is considered the legacy of Ottoman Empire and brings bitter feeling of that eara to the mind of some rulers and popular minds. For instance note the status in Bulgaria[7]

I personally appriciate the time and thank your voluntary erfforts that you display for new Wiki projects, hope we can open a dialogue on this subject in relation to application. --Mehrdad 20:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Ottoman turkish

Hi! The only source we use for decisions is ISO 639-3 (and we do not make any exception, even in the case the codes are wrong). ISO says Ot.Tu. is not "living". Unless you correct this with ISO officers (we have no power to do it for you) the only way for Ot.Tu. to get a wiki is to demonstrate with actual data that Ot.Tu. is taught in schools as a "classical" language, just as Latin or Ancient Greek. Obviously, this would require more than a couple of countries, possibly turkish schools ih Europe may help. I hope you inderstand that it is NOT in LangCom's mission to judge and correct ISO. We simply guard its application, no matter what we think of particular cases. If you have any problems with the way they classify Ot.Tu. you should interface to them, directly. I personally understand your situation and I do sympathize with you guys, yet by NO MEANS the WMF is willing to issue political recognitions of any kind to anyone. When what you need is recognition, ISO is the address. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 10:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bèrto 'd Sèra, Thanks for your effort to understand our position.
Ottoman language is thought in major universities around the world such as Oxford[8], Harvard[9], and UCLA[10] to name few. Ottoman language also thought in some Eastern European institutes [11], and some state run collages in Turkey such as Courses at 37 branches of Istanbul Technical Education Centres (ISMEK) and almost by all Turkish Universities. It is a core (non selective) subject for courses in Literature, History, Art, Librarians, and Archival education. [12][13] [14] [15]. (For more detailed list of educational opportunities in this language please refer to the list I am compiling to place in the English Wikipedia under relevant article Educational Opportunities in Ottoman Language).


Bèrto 'd Sèra, While understanding your task in providing a uniform rule and consistency in approving new applications, I would like to point out that, at the time of our application adn during the most of the last year, there was no such conditions you listed for the languages in similar situations, or much less known historical ones. While we have been busy writing more than 1200 articles, and tried to get someone to have a look at our case, no one has told us we need not to apply. Indeed if there is a new condition on acceptance of new projects, wouldn't it be unfair to apply it to old application like this one?

In the case of ISO code I may have failed to make it clear that in fact codes TUR and OTA are referring to the same language.[[:en:ISO 639:TUR|]] I'm not saying that ISO coding is wrong and need correction. ISO provides code OTA for the Ottoman Language which was once dominant language of Ottoman Empire and then changed in writing system from Arabic to Latin officially. While Code TUR refers to Ottoman Turkish outside of the modern Turkish borders but within the greater cultural zone of the Turkish influence in Eastern Europe and Asia. One would agree that this is not the usual case with most languages. Ethnologure clarifies this by this quote[16]:

We have mapped this code to Turkish [TRK]. ISO distinguishes this code from [ota] on the basis of time, [tur] applying to the Turkish language since 1928, and [ota] applying to the Turkish language prior to 1928. The year 1928 corresponds to the year in which writing reform occurred, changing from Arabic to Latin script. Thus, these two codes are distinguishing between the Arabic- and Latin-based writing systems rather than between languages. This goes against the normal practice for ISO 639-x, as described in clause 4.1.3. Thus, we deem that this language is also covered by the ISO code [ota].

I will look forward to know your views on the subject. Thanks --Mehrdad 18:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bèrto 'd Sèra, Thanks for discussions on Applications for approval of Ottoman Wikipedia. I left a response to your earlier comments in Special_projects_subcommittees/Languages. Thanks for you attention on this subject --Mehrdad 17:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks again, for contributions to discussion on OTA application for Wikipedia. I left a comment on the Talk:Special_projects_subcommittees/Languages#Ottoman. Alos have copied our earlier comments from my Talk page to the there.
Bèrto 'd Sèra, as a regular contributor and bureaucrat-admin in Azerbaijani Wikipedia I am very much aware of the constraints in use and allocation of resources, be it server space, bandwidth or man hours. I can asure you that Ottoman Wikipedia is a good seed in of sharing knowledge. I feel that our discussion has brought our views and understandings many steps closer and hope we can come to a decision that help wikipedias agenda in sharing human knowledge. --Mehrdad 16:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bèrto 'd Sèra, To assist with your assessment of the education activity for Ottoman Turkish, my Turkish Wikipedian friend Tarih, have helped me to compile a page as Statistics on Ottoman Turkish Education using available official statistics based on matrix provided byHigher Education Board of Turkey (Tablo 4) on its official website. Using this source we could extract the number of first year students who will be thought Ottoman Turkish Language during their courses. According to this tables, the total for the State Universities are 11870 students and private universities 1215 , which bring us to the Grand Total of 13085 students learning Ottoman Turkish (Osmanli). Considering these figures are just for the first year, it is safe to assume that at least twice this number being trained in this language. We hope this will help to clarify the status of this language as a prerequisite course for Turkish Literature, art and historical research. --Mehrdad 15:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Bèrto 'd Sèra, Thank you for approval vote. I am sure your vote will have a positive effect on the discussion. Would you kindly let the other committee members know of your vote please. DO you belive the discussion page for Ottoman Language needs to be moved/copied to November page? Look forward to see the other members view. --Mehrdad 17:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Final approval for bcl, now

Thanks. Create Bikol Wikipedia, now.

Nospam

Sure, it's ok. The title does not matter, it can be named anything. The only important part, is that it must be cascade-protected (instead of standard protection). drini ^[es:] _[commons:] 13:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I've added your translation to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Drini/nospam so now it'll be included on all wikis next time I update the file. drini ^[es:] _[commons:] 13:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Breton wikiquote

Hello! The breton wikiquote (see the test project) is ready to be approved and become official. All the criterias are completed: we've got an ISO 639 code, the language is unique with more than 300.000 native speakers, the test project is very active, the MediaWiki interface is completely translated! Could you help us to have our project approved? Thank you very much in advance!Benoni 13:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Berto.jpg

Please provide source and licence details for this image otherwise it might be deleted according to policy as it currently has an unknown copyright status. Thanks. Adambro 17:45, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Steward candidacy

Hi Bèrto 'd Sèra: I think you may have been logged out when you transcluded your candidacy at Stewards/elections 2007, so I reverted it. Please be logged in when you transclude it, so it's easy to be sure it really is you putting yourself up for election. Hope that helps. All the best and good luck in the upcoming election. ++Lar: t/c 20:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Ciao

Al bar di it.wikipedia, c'e un messaggio che publicizzava, i candidati italiani nelle votazioni di steward, ma non ho visto il tuo nick, a meno che, non abbia capito male la tua storia di piemontese.... --Freegiampi 05:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ottoman Wikipedia

Dear Bèrto 'd Sèra, In your last message your mentioned " the discussion about OTA as such is over and a "classical role" is granted. It remains to be seen whether "being classical" will be acceptable for ANY language (not just OTA). " . The comment was very positive and made me and other OTA wikipedians very hopeful that months of work is going to of use. Wondering if there has been any progress on this discussion. Appriciate that festive season is approaching fast and everyone busy with the preparations, and hwo knows we may get nice surprises for presents :)) . Wish you well. --Mehrdad 15:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Problems of Italian Wikipedia

Hi Bèrto. As you probably know, Italian people are culturally led to organize themselves in mafious-oriented association systems. I'm a user of it.wiki, I prefer to keep me anonymous to avoid unpleasant revenges by administrators.

Italian Wikipedian community is severely weakened by a heavy problem. There's a group of sysops who abuse of their power. They manipulate policies, ban users without consensus, and they've created a wall making themselves unassailable. Wikipedian community is not able to withdraw their adminship, but there's strong need to do it.

This group of sysops is gradually eliminating all users (and other admins) who don't share the same viewpoints of them, or simply people who denounce their abuses. Can you help us? --Vun 10:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

LOLOL! And what am I supposed to do? Should I send in suicide Berkut commandos from Kiev? Or should we launch the first Orthodox Crusade against the Catholic heresy? :) Come on... let's be serious. So:

1. I have no idea whatsoever of what's happening in it.wiki and/or in Italy. I left the country 6 years ago and I never cared for reading an italian paper or watching an italian TV channel ever since. So I simply cannot know whether what you say is true or not. I don't vote in Italian political elections and I don't even know who is the local President of the Republic (seriously, it was Ciampi, or was it Prodi? can't remember...). I pay my taxes to the Ukrainian government, so we can discuss about my local mafia bosses (ups, the english word for them is actually politicians) as long as you wish, but I have no idea of what's going on there, on your side of the Shengen Wall...
2. Even if the situation really was such as you mention (which I cannot verify), I'm not a part of the it.wiki community, so what could I do?
3. In the extremely remote case that someday for some weird reason I was in the position of casting a vote about it.wiki at international level I would not do it. If there will ever be such a case at international arbitrage level I suppose all italian citizens would be decent enough to shut up, and you can be 100% sure that I would not even read the proceedings, to avoid putting undue influence on the process.
4. The quickest and safest thing to do, when you don't like a place or a community is... to go away from it. It's much quicker and effective to rule one's own life in freedom than it is to make revolutions of any kind. The planet is quite large, there are lots of passport providers (countries) and projects one can choose, depending on his/her likings. You can waste your life fighting all day or you can look for something you like and get it ASAP. Make your choice, I made mine long ago.

--Bèrto 'd Sèra 11:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Well... that of the mafia was actually a metaphor. --Vun 11:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear it :) --Bèrto 'd Sèra 12:49, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is simply that a group of admins abuse of their power, and the community is unable to contrast them. --Vun 17:39, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

If you don't like a wiki, you can still try your luck in another, just make absolutely sure you like the environment before investing your time in it. This is true of just anything in life. There is always another port, another city, another cigarette and another woman... Forget all the delirious crap about communities, as if before web 2.0 humans never had a social life. Communities are but usual kindergarten classrooms. They have their dolls and bullies, like any other place, and while some people will adore a given classroom others will just hate it (possibly for the very same reasons the first lot loves it). Merry Xmas and may you all be lucky in your quest for a project that will offer you a human environment that will make you happy. I mean it, sincerely :) Now delete wikies from your mind for a while, go out and have a life. I mean a real life, with real people. :) --Bèrto 'd Sèra 20:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Man, you're using the same argumentations of one of those tyrants, maybe the most boorish. The only difference is that you're sincere and surely less annoying... they use this argumentation to offend and throw away people. I've a nice real life outside the ungrateful, hypocritical, clappy-clappy world of Wikipedia. Meanwhile I love Wikipedia as a vehicle bringing knowledge to everyone. As a revolutionary, maybe communist, anti-fascist and a bit anarchic person I can't accept your laissez-faire strategy. I'll ask someone else. Merry Xmas. :) --Vun 11:50, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think there's a way to reform from the inside a group of 100+ people (be it a wiki or whatever else). It's not a matter of laissez-faire, it's simple life experience. Once you manage to reform it.wiki your way I'll be getting the very same messages from the people you reformed. This is true of all human societies. There is a resistance to change and there is a natural trend to form governance structures that in time drift towards a closed oligarchy. We are but speaking animals and behave as such. You wouldn't have more chances to change a Centro Sociale from the inside than you have to change a wiki. The only thing you can do is find a group of people you like better and start a brand new project with them. In time, those who come from the old Centro Sociale will go 'round posting messages about your project being oligarchic, cliquey, etc etc etc... It's the human nature, and there's no known way to change it. :) We hate each other, because everyone wants to be the winner, yet there's is only place for one at the top of any structure. Homo homini lupus, in it.wiki as anywhere else on the planet. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 12:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Bot flag on pms

Done :) Sorry for being a bit slow... this is the reason :) --Bèrto 'd Sèra 23:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations to all of you! You must be having a grat and intense time. Beautiful pictures! You weren't slow, btw. Thank you! --Purodha Blissenbach 01:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Sakha Wikipedia

Would you please explain your concerns on the quality of Sakha Wikipedia? If, as Pathoschild hints here, the problem is that you think this Wikipedia is not in Sakha language, then you as a ru-3 user can easily verify this yourself. Thanks.--Yaroslav Blanter 23:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd also like to read your comment about this. If you are, as Pathoschild suggests, seriously seeking the assessment of a university professors before allowing the Sakha Wikipedia to be created, I fear this painful process will drag on for many more months (just as the promised solution for the Hanja Wikipedia which never materialised), adding to the sense of frustration which has already accumulated in the Sakha camp. I'd also like to know where your specific distrust towards the contents of the Sakha Wikipedia derives from. Verifying the contents of a project in a lesser-known language is quite a unique step which I haven't seen in any prior case. I'd be happy if you could find the time to respond at langcom's talk page. Thanks. --Johannes Rohr 11:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Johannes, can you spare 10K euro? if the answer is yes, then pay them, and I'll personally hire a programmer to finish the code for Hanja. You cannot? Fine, then you wait... or you learn to program, volunteer in the MLMW team and finish the code for free. It's THAT simple. Things do not get done for free, and funds are limited. Moreover, LangCom does NOT have the authority to spend a single cent. So we wait and hear promises, just as you and everybody else does. I personally spent the money to host an experimental install of the code and requested for volunteers to come over and help testing it. Do you know how many of them materialized? the answer is ZERO. Including and starting from those who are always eager to lament that everything goes sloooowwww... It seems that everyone can read the LangCom log pretty carefully, when looking for a chance to be hypercritical. But for some mysterious reason they all skip the bit called "it's a wiki, come and help". So if nobody comes out to test it in the next month, what I will do is delete the install and let everyone lament as much as they please, because I do not print my money, I earn it. And I hate wasting it. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

For verification ask Koryakov Yuri, he is a linguist and a Ph.D., he is working in Institute of Linguistics of Russian Academy of Sciences. A.M.D.F. 15:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Johannes, we do NOT run, this is not an attemtp to enter the Guinness Book of Records for speedy approval or refusal, it's an editorial process done by volunteers. All wikies are verified as being in the language they declare to be, and Sakha is NOT an exception. Moreover, precedents like ru-sib make this step absolutely mandatory for EVERYBODY. People DID invent languages out of thin air, in the past, you know it just as I do, and all the Russian wikimedians know what I'm talking about. I am sorry for being slow, I have become a father exactly one month ago and I am now painfully rebuilding my life schedule according to this new situation. But I'm sure more than one person in LangCom can write a letter, when I happen to be temporary slow. Koryakov Yuri is not eligible as a third independent party, as any other wikimedian. With all the due respect for Prof. Koryakov, LangCom is NOT going to tell anyone in advance who is being requested to make the verification. It may even happen to be Prof. Koryakov himself, but not as a wikimedian. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ребята, давайте не будем давить. Все стараемся как можем, а зарплату от этого никто не получает. Письмо готово, как только моя жена будет ее исправить оно пойдет. Будет ответ - будет и ваш проект. А пока не будет ответа, все будем ждать, в том числе и я, которому не сладко от того, что все обижаются. А тем не менее, был ли на викисвете некий г-н Золотарев? Был и еще есть... Была ли версия ваших страниц в которых 90% текста было просто напросто на русском языке? была, сам ее нашел... Это я что-ли сделал? Не я. Поэтому спокойно, никто никого расстреливать не собирается, но... проверят будем. И проверять будем столько, сколько нужно. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 09:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

А что именно будете проверять? Whether or not Sakha is a legit language? Don't be silly. Whether or not the text is in Sakha or Russian? C'mon, that's what we are capable of ourselves. BTW, as I wrote in a much earlier discussion, your conclusion that 50% or more is not in Sakha was a vast exaggeration, at least at the time when I went through the pages. See my comment at Talk:Language subcommittee/2007#Wikipedia_Sakha. Your insistance on involving an outsider considered neutral seems strange to me. As if there was a dispute of any substance, or you suspected a conspiration (who, heck, should conspire, against whom and why? This is just totally beyond me.)

Actually pointing at Zolotaryov is not without irony, given that the Languages Subcommittee did not raise a finger to get his crap removed from wikimedia's servers, despite countless requests and discussions.. In the end it was the much vilified community or mob if you prefer, which eventually helped to get it out of the way. I know it's off-topic, however, I couldn't resist.

Congrats on becoming a father! Those first days with a little baby already seem like a distant memory to me (my youngest son was born four years ago), but I still have a vivid memory of those sleepless nights and all the joy and horror they bring... --Johannes Rohr 11:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The language subcommittee is not authorized to close existing wikis. See the Language subcommittee charter for an overview of our tasks. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:23:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

If everybody thought like that, ru-sib would still be around, as no-one has the authority. --Johannes Rohr 13:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) As per ru-sib, if you take the time to verify the lists archives at wikipedia-l you'll find out that I never had a problem in being loudly outspoken against ru-sib and its content. At strict personal level I think Mr. Zolotorev should be banned forever from all WMF projects, after such a joke. Let alone making the whole WMF look ridicolous, let alone the racist behaviour he showed in more than an occasion, publishing articles saying that "Russia is a land of alcoholists whose only values are vodka and seledka" was also an offense to "those idiot westerners who cannot read a word of it and will pay the bill anyway". You are right, it was the mobs settling the problem by means of the Lynch Law, in the end. But I do think that when a community needs mobs to take over there is something wrong in the policies. This should simply never have happened from the start, and we should have had an instrument (and the political will) to stop it, when it happened. We were not able to do it, and so far it is one of the reasons that led me to limit the time I dedicate to the WMF. If nobody cares, why should *I* care? The reason why I did not simply slam the door is that I realized that these things will simply keep happening, if we do not stop them from the start. Do you remember a wiki request for Padonki? Do you remember the shameful crusades to protect ru-sib from the "Russian imperialism" that happened in the very town in which I live? Well, I have not forgotten and I never will. Just as I haven't forgotten those pages that invite people to delete en.wiki content that is not good for a given political POV. If some people think that westerners are stupid enough to pay the bill anyway, they are plain wrong. Anyway, checking whether a language is the language that it declares to be is no new stuff. As per practice, so far we have been checking all languages that we cannot verify ourselves directly. If anyone passed a wiki without this verification, he/she is integrally responsible of any damage that may derive to the WMF, and I will take them to the Board, in case another Zolotorev appears. You have my word on it. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 15:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

PS: so, do I delete the MLMW install because nobody cares? --Bèrto 'd Sèra 15:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Мы проявили много выдержки (с момента условного одобрения в апреле прошлого года утекло много воды). Вложено много труда. Я не думаю, что кто-то из людей, пользующихся авторитетом и обладающих правом решать, имеет что-то против народа саха, или личную антипатию к участвующим в проекте людям. Потерпим еще немного. Thanks :) --HalanTul 06:11, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

лично я ничего против никаких народов не имею. Речь тут не совсем о народах или о языках. Проект делают не народы или языки, а конкретные отдельные люди. ИХ работа проверяется, а не народ или язык. Проверять народ - дело самого народа, и уже точно не дело Викимедии. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 01:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Где можно ознакомиться с методикой или способом проверки? Можем ли мы сами как-то помочь? И.Рор и Я.Блантер полагают, что само сообщество саха викимедистов могло бы предложить Вам на выбор несколько кандидатур в качестве экспертов. Мы готовы это сделать. Разумеется это будут люди, не имеющие родственных, личных, профессиональных связей с нашим сообществом, не участвующие в википедии и имеющие авторитет в научном мире, доброе имя, которое они не захотят запятнать ради сомнительного экспертного заключения. С уважением, инициатор Саха Википедии --HalanTul 08:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi there and happy Easter Holidays, may I ask how the verification process is progressing? --Johannes Rohr 08:11, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I join congratulations and to a question.--HalanTul 08:51, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi there and hello. If you want to see things go faster: it's a wiki, you can find people who speak the language yourself and ask, right? As long as people are volunteers they do things when they can and want. Why do you write here and not to the langcom mailing list? I mean: we are a group of people there ... uhmmmm ... there is no obligation of whoever to do whatsoever - we are all volunteers (even the chair of the langcom is a volunteer). Again: it's a WIKI and things are done the wiki way: when the volunteers have time and feel like doing whatever needs to be done. Thanks!--Sabine 12:17, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, I can not really agree, since the lack of action in this case actually blocks the decision. Wiki way is that if you do not have time to perform a particular task, and the task is urgent, somebody else will be taking it. In this case, Bèrto 'd Sèra very clearly indicated that he would not accept any help from other Wikipedia volunteers, and this is why we can reasonably expect that he is making some steps towards the solution of the problem.--Yaroslav Blanter 16:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Something happens?

You have removed the information on. There can be it not my business. Excuse. Whether all by way of? --HalanTul 23:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Берто, спасибо за ответ. Раздел на языке саха уже функционирует (с 26 мая получил свой домен http://sah.wikipedia.org). Благодарю за участие в становлении нашего раздела. Добро пожаловать! Мне интересен опыт сохранения миноритарных языков в Европе (Меркатор и др.), если у Вас когда-нибудь будет время буду рад пообщаться на эту тему. --HalanTul 00:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

"Fluent expression" instead of "Native" Requirement

Community find very problematic to limit language proposal to native language. in foundation list there many example of languages that has no native speakers, but are very useful as culture vehicle. possible proposals in these will fail because of this unfair barrier

what is our proposal?

the consensual proposal of wikimedia community is replace "native" requirement" for "fluent expression". in any kind of language form (oral, written, signal).

Please replace native for fluent expression. ~~u~~

it would help if you signed when writing :) --Bèrto 'd Sèra 19:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Extremaduran Wikipedia

Hi, Berto. I just wanted to make you aware of what has happened with the Wikipedia in Extremaduran since it was in Incubator stage. I don't have time to look for the correct Wikimedia user to send this information, nor to write more than this note, nor am I willing to explain things more, because I'm fed up with this situation and to me facts are sufficiently clear, so I made a summary here: http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/08/29/about-the-extremaduran-wikipedia-and-possible-copyleft-violations-la-guiquipeya-sic-en-estremenu-y-la-falta-de-la-mas-minima-etiqueta/ . It's obviously my version, and they probably have theirs, but, as I can't get any answer from them and their behaviour personally or through the net, and because they are administrators, I write to you before you can read I've written about you elsewhere. Do with this information whatever you deem more appropriate. Thanks. --Neron 22:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I answered on your blog, since you probably won't read back here. --Bèrto 'd Sèra 19:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Mari Wikipedia in incubator

Please, take a look at Talk:Language_committee#Requests for approval Meadow Mari Wikipedia. Nobody has answered yet on my last post week ago. --Сай 08:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi there! I am glad to inform you, Language committee, that now Mari Wikipedia Incubator commutity has three active not-grayed out editors for last three monthes (look at statistics). So, the last requirement is meet now.

Also I want to add, that there will be a big conference in July, 10. There would be around 150 young mari. I will take part in this conference and intend to talk about Mari Wikipedia to involve more people to contribute. There are more chances that new participants will contribute to Wikipedia than to Incubator. So, I am asking you to consider approval of Mari Wikipedia before the start of conference(before July, 10). As for me, I have some technical skills. I can help you, for example in creating subdomain mhr.wikipedia.org or in moving pages, etc. And of cource, if you think that mari wikipedia don't have something for final approval, please, write it here immediatly, so we can fix and solve all the problems before July 10.

Please, post your answer here --Сай 05:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Mirandese Wikipedia

Hi! I'm Chabi, form Mirandese Wikipedia. We've done more than 900 articles, all the messages are translated and we've talked to SPQRobin to move the Wikipedia to its domain. We've been waiting for a long time to move our Wikipedia but anybody tells us anything. Please, how much we will have to wait to have our own Wikipedia? We have long articles, not only stubs like other Wikipedias. Please, help us. Thanks for your time. Chabi

Ka-wikisource

Hello, Bèrto 'd Sèra, I've honour to send to an invitation! The same invitation has already been sent to other members of the Language committee. I hope that you will accept the invitation & will make a right deceision.

Some History...

Georgian shared a common ancestal language with and is believed to have separated from Svan and Mingrelian/Laz in the first millennium BC. Based on the degree of change, linguists (e.g. Klimov, T. Gamkrelidze, G. Machavariani) conjecture that the earliest split occurred in the second millennium BC or earlier, separating Svan from the other languages. Megrelian and Laz separated from Georgian roughly a thousand years later.

The earliest allusion to spoken Georgian may be a passage of the Roman literati Marcus Cornelius Fronto in the 2nd century AD: Fronto imagines the Iberians addressing the emperor Marcus Aurelius in their incomprehensible tongue.

The Georgian alphabet is traditionally said to have been invented in the 5th century BC and reformed by King Parnavaz I of Iberia in 284 BC. Most modern scholarship puts its origin date at some time in the 5th century AD, when the earliest examples can be found.

Georgia's medieval culture was greatly influenced by Eastern Orthodox Christianity and the Georgian Orthodox and Apostolic Church, which promoted and often sponsored the creation of many works of religious devotion. These included churches and monasteries, works of art such as icons, and hagiographies of Georgian saints. In addition, many secular works of national history, mythology and hagiography were also written.

Waiting for your deceision here.

--George Mel 13:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

your answer needed

Hello Bèrto!
There are a few unanswered questions on Talk:Language committee. As a member of the language committee, I am kindly asking you to reply to the users' concerns posted there. Please don't be offended if the tone of my last posting there sounds a bit harsh, as I was a little disappointed because some questions weren't responded to in a while. Thank you!
--Saberon 12:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

your answer needed

Hi Bèrto! Please note that there are some unanswered questions on Talk:Language committee. As a member of the language committee, I kindly ask you to post a reply. Thanks, Candalua 18:17, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Sakha Wikisource

Wikisource project in the language of the Sakha approved by the Committee on 13 February. When open? Sincerely, bureaucrat Wikipedia Sakha, Nikolay Pavlov. --HalanTul 00:49, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Requests for new languages/Wikisource Belarusian 2

Hello, maybe you can help with the imposition of wikisources in the Belarusian language in a separate space?--Хомелка 23:21, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Veps Wikipedia

Hi Bèrto! Do you have an idea when the Veps Wikipedia might be finally created? I am asking because it will be the first edition in one of the languages of the indigenous small peoples of the Russian North, with whom I have been working for most of my professional life, so I am quite excited about this. I always thought that Wikis in some of the indigenous languages might provide some momentum to the attempts to preserve them, but at the same time I was concerned that with the exception of Sakha, all the existing editions in languages of the North or Siberia make very little progress (see Komi and Buryat). So it is quite amazing that such a small linguistic community has managed to create a viable test project, and I couldn't help sending a note to the internal discussion list of RAIPON, the national umbrella organisation of Russia's indigenous peoples. Therefore I am just curious, when it can be expected to go live. --Johannes Rohr (WMDE) 17:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Georgian Wikisource

Когда одобрят Georgian Wikisource

Здравствуйте Bèrto 'd Sèra. Когда одобрят Georgian Wikisource?, все главные сообщения переведены. Что еще нужно сделать для создания раздела?--David1010 (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Superprotect status

Dear Bèrto 'd Sèra, since you are an administrator on a wiki from which no user participated in this discussion, I'd like to make sure you are aware of some recent events which may alter what the Wikimedia Foundation lets you do on your wiki: Superprotect.

• Request for comment: Requests for comment/Superprotect rights
• An open letter about its implementation: Letter to Wikimedia Foundation: Superprotect and Media Viewer

Peteforsyth 09:07, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Feedback needed from LangCom

Dear member of the Language Committee, can you please try to answer some of the messages on Talk:Language committee (and its archive)? Many people are asking for updates and indications about their requests, but they are almost never getting an answer of any kind. Candalua (talk) 12:26, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Humble Request to Hon'ble Members of Language Committee

• As a Test Admin of Wp/khw Khowar Wikipedia Project I on behalf of the Khowar language communities of Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and Xinjiang(China) humbly request the all respectable members of the language comittee for early approval, creation of Khowar Wkipedia i.e. khw.wikipedia.org. The Khowar language is spoken in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and Xingjiang(China). I have created a test page for Khowar language in incubator i.e. Wikipedia Khowar (Khowar Language Wikipedia), On behalf of the abovementioned Khowar speaking four countries for early approval and creation and normalization of Khowar Wikipedia edition. Khowar is one of spoken 14 languages in Chitral(Pakistan). It will be useful to Khowar internet users to report news from worldwide. I strongly feel it deserves its own Wikipedia. Being a test admin i have translated all most used messages into khowar. I have created test Khowar Wikipedia at Khowar Wikpedia.--Rehmat Aziz Chitrali 05:55, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Tunisian Arabic

As shown in the new edition of Ethnologue, Tunisian Arabizi (One of the Latin Scripts used for Tunisian) has been recognized as a common script for Tunisian Arabic. As it is the most used script in Internet, we will use it in Wp/aeb. I have slightly modified this method so that it can be converted to Arabic Script. I have created a script converter for Tunisian Arabizi and I will implement it with explanations very soon. However, I need to test it before. So, you are invited to change the name of Tunisian Arabic in Latin Script into Tounsi and change the editing software of Tunisian Arabic Wikipedia into Left to Right format. Thank you in advance. --Csisc (talk) 16:15, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Un grazie e un libro sulla conoscenza libera per te

Wikimedia Italia

Gentile Bèrto 'd Sèra,

oggi ti scrivo a nome dell'associazione Wikimedia Italia per ringraziarti del tempo che hai dedicato ai progetti Wikimedia.

Come piccolo omaggio avremmo piacere di spedirti una copia (tutta in carta riciclata) del libro di Carlo Piana, Open source, software libero e altre libertà. Fornisci un recapito per ricevere una copia del libro.

Pochi giorni fa il mondo ha festeggiato la giornata dell'amore per il software libero, ma ogni giorno è buono per ricordare le garanzie delle licenze libere e le centinaia di migliaia di persone che si sono unite per costruire questo bene comune della conoscenza. Speriamo che questo libro ti sia utile per apprezzare quanto hai fatto e per trasmettere la passione della conoscenza libera a una persona a te vicina.

Se desideri una copia ma non puoi fornirci un indirizzo a cui spedirla, contatta la segreteria Wikimedia Italia e troviamo una soluzione insieme.

Grazie ancora e a presto,

Lorenzo Losa (msg) 15:15, 18 February 2020 (UTC)