Wikimedia New Zealand/IRC Log 7 May 2006 (Chapter Issues)
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See http://nz.wikimedia.org for updates.
This is a log from #wikimedia-chapters regarding issues with setting up a New Zealand Chapter, thanks to Austin who answered our questions. (Nigel and Brian were present).
Fees & Reimbursements
[edit]May 07 14:15:19 Nigel Austin, are you around? May 07 14:27:33 Austin Sure. May 07 14:27:34 Austin What's up? May 07 14:28:10 Nigel Austin, want to answer a few questions May 07 14:28:25 Nigel I notice your on the Chapters Committee, which is a good start ;) May 07 14:28:37 Austin My cover is blown! May 07 14:28:44 Nigel Austin, haha May 07 14:29:11 Nigel 1) does [[m:License_example]] apply to chapters May 07 14:29:34 Nigel or is there a more free version for chapters May 07 14:30:52 Austin Chapters have a different agreement for the use of trademarks, logos, and other Wikimedia property. May 07 14:30:59 Austin That agreement is still being drafted, however. :) May 07 14:31:12 Nigel ahhh right, so the 2k/mnth doesn't apply to chapters May 07 14:31:29 Nigel thats a start ;) May 07 14:31:54 Nigel now, as for the content listed on [[m:Chapter co-ordinator]] May 07 14:32:06 Nigel (the last section) May 07 14:32:12 Nigel does that include costs for: May 07 14:32:24 Nigel a) Incorporation as a society May 07 14:32:45 Nigel b) *Reimbursement* for a domain name May 07 14:33:01 Nigel as we all know, domain names can get snapped up quickly May 07 14:34:41 Austin That page is a bit outdates, but most of it still applies. Certainly for (b), and most likely for (a). May 07 14:34:46 Austin s/tes/ted/ May 07 14:35:05 Nigel what doesn't apply May 07 14:35:08 Austin The Foundation would actually rather own the domain outright, so it would likely be a case of purchasing it from you altogether. May 07 14:35:31 Nigel that for wikipedia or wikimedia domain? May 07 14:35:40 Austin Both. May 07 14:35:42 Nigel or both now May 07 14:35:48 BrianNewZealand wikimedia.org.nz is the one we are looking at May 07 14:35:50 Austin The position of Chapter Coordinator still exists, but her duties have been largely taken over by this committee. May 07 14:36:00 Nigel yeah i realized that May 07 14:36:12 Austin As a happy coincidence, the Chapter Coordinator is currently this committee's chairman. :) May 07 14:36:19 Austin So it doesn't cause problems much. May 07 14:36:19 Nigel yeah, so i read ;)
Legal & Requirements
[edit]May 07 14:37:19 Nigel ohhh now, here it's 15 members min for incorporation as a non-profit, so is it possible for Wikimedia NZ to be recongized with only 15 members, or is 20 set in stone May 07 14:37:52 Austin Where do you see 20? May 07 14:38:04 Nigel it was on the FAQ or something May 07 14:38:57 Austin I don't think it's set in stone, but with fewer than 20 members you should ask yourself if founding a chapter is worthwhile. May 07 14:39:18 Austin Because we'll be asking ourselves if taking on a chapter with fewer than 20 members is worthwhile. ;) May 07 14:39:20 Nigel ahhh right May 07 14:39:32 Nigel so that solves that May 07 14:40:37 Nigel also on the Chapter Coordinator page is a mention of legal fees etc, does that include the fees for a lawyer to look over the constitution and if need be touch it up for NZ legal standards May 07 14:41:35 Austin I don't see how you could incorporate without it, so lump it in with those costs. May 07 14:42:17 Nigel so it's part of the foundations 'grant' shall we put it? May 07 14:42:31 Austin We're playing catch-up with our duties, so there are some things which (obviously) still need to be examined. May 07 14:42:35 Austin Yes. May 07 14:43:22 Nigel now what about things like hosting etc for the chapter, is the chapter responsible for working that out, or can it be purchased from wikimedia or something like that (i noticed that the polish lot use pl.wikimedia.org) May 07 14:43:43 BrianNewZealand Austin:Btw This is about a possable chapter for New Zealand May 07 14:44:06 Nigel BrianNewZealand, i think he gathered that ;) but yeah May 07 14:44:41 Austin Some chapters opt to provide their own hosting (usually at no cost to them); others are hosted by Wikimedia, and I'm fairly certain they don't pay for that privilege. May 07 14:45:15 Nigel BrianNewZealand, have i missed anything? May 07 14:45:23 Austin All of the current chapters incorporated prior to the establishment of any real guidelines, so don't take their circumstance as any sort of official policy. May 07 14:45:36 Austin And yeah, I gathered, but thanks. :) May 07 14:46:07 Nigel how long before real guidelines? May 07 14:46:10 Nigel can we sneak in ;) May 07 14:46:32 Austin Right now our top priority is a formal trademark agreement between the Foundation and its chapters. May 07 14:46:47 Austin We actually have one chapter held up until that happens.
Logos
[edit]May 07 14:46:49 Nigel oh thats another thing May 07 14:47:10 Nigel with the logo, to what extent would a chapter be able to modify it? May 07 14:47:18 Austin Once we have that agreement, I'm sure our next priority will be to review guidelines and policies. May 07 14:47:56 Austin Not much. :) May 07 14:48:08 Nigel darnit, i was hoping to make it 'kiwi' May 07 14:48:13 Austin You get a logo consistent with that of the other chapters. May 07 14:48:25 Nigel change the red dot at the top, to black, and make it into a 2D kiwi May 07 14:48:31 Austin Sorry, although I see how that would be neat. :) May 07 14:48:57 Nigel and the 'wings' into some sorta Maori carving May 07 14:49:17 Nigel oh well, was worth a try May 07 14:49:27 Austin I'm afraid you'll have to be boring. May 07 14:49:41 Austin Although I'm sure you can use kiwis and tribal carvings in your other artwork. May 07 14:49:53 Austin Banners and things. May 07 14:50:26 Nigel wait a second then, where would the wikimedia logo have to be used May 07 14:50:35 Nigel could the NZ Chapter have a totally different logo May 07 14:50:59 Nigel aka, not based on the Wikimedia logo, or is that one of the rules May 07 14:52:06 Austin That's actually a good thing to bring up. May 07 14:52:23 Nigel like are we forced to use the Wikimedia logo May 07 14:52:38 Nigel thats better May 07 14:53:30 Austin If you use the Wikimedia logo, or any derivative, it has to be within our guidelines. Nobody's ever actually proposed using something else, and currently the draft guidelines don't say anything about requiring chapters to use the WMF logo. May 07 14:53:48 Austin Don't get your hopes up, though; I'm pretty sure we'll require that now that someone's mentioned it. :) May 07 14:55:41 Nigel because i'm just thinking along the lines of: the local chapter is designed to focus it's efforts on local issues/subjects etc, so surely a local chapter should have the right to create a logo that reflects that May 07 14:55:43 Austin In everything else, though, I know I appreciate all the local flair chapters can provide. May 07 14:56:08 Austin Yes, but we also want recognizable trademarks. May 07 14:56:23 Nigel good point May 07 14:56:29 Austin Among other things, chapters establish a trademark's use in their own little part of the world. May 07 14:57:31 Nigel what if say the local logo, was always used in conjunction with the WMF logo (i'm just wondering to be honest) May 07 14:58:59 Nigel but right, unless BrianNewZealand doesn't have anything else, thanks for answering the questions May 07 14:59:20 Nigel i take it you don't mind if we put part/all of this onto meta for other kiwi's to review? May 07 14:59:46 Austin The Foundation has a separate committee for trademark identity, and they'd probably protest if you made extensive use of other non-identifiable logos. May 07 15:00:03 Austin I remember seeing a few turned down recently for that reason. May 07 15:00:04 Nigel rightyo then May 07 15:00:28 Nigel but tacking "New Zealand" under it would be acceptable May 07 15:01:38 Austin In line with the most recent version of the http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines May 07 15:02:03 Austin Which is so specific that there's no room at all for variation. May 07 15:02:20 Austin (They're actually visual identity specifications.) May 07 15:03:43 Austin Oh, and yes, you can quote me on any of this. May 07 15:05:14 Austin I should also point out that the localized logo isn only for things like the chapter's Web site, to disambiguate. May 07 15:05:28 Austin Officially, you use the Wikimedia logo, plain and simple. May 07 15:06:03 Nigel so the wikimedia logo, everywhere May 07 15:08:30 Austin Anywhere identifying, but not *everywhere*. May 07 15:08:40 Austin When you guys hold a get-together, you can make up banners with kiwis and things. May 07 15:09:52 Austin You just can't use a kiwi to identify Wikimedia New Zealand.
Notes
[edit]Just remember that some of the things here, are subject to change.