Calling the trans man who speaks about Transandrophobia a “TERF in waiting” is of course a great example of Transandrophobia in work.

The trans man is after all, a threat to women. Using his transness as a weapon to hide his ill intent that should have been obvious when he examined gender and sided with men.

The trans man is after all, ignorant and weak, he will detransition to side with the enemy, who are all probably repressed trans men taking it out on trans women.

The trans man is after all, a man.

A man that talks about men’s Liberation.A man that talks about masculinity as something divine.

A man that is weak and delusion. A man that is strong and malicious. He is hysterical and incapable of emotion.

Typically, when trans men talk about transandrophobia, we do not talk about trans women. We do not claim they are a threat, we do not claim they are male, we do not claim they have any sort of gender or sex based privilege. These are all false, transmisonistic ideas that are promoted by TERFs, nazies, run of the mill transphobes, and conservatives.

Are their trans men who are transmisogynists? Absolutely. 100%. That is undeniable. Do some of those transmisonistic men talk about Transandrophobia, that is almost a certainity - bigots will always appropriate and miss use language to further their agenda.

But a trans man talking about how his mental health, physical health, and material reality is effected by his intersection identity as a trans person and as a man - This is not transmisogyny, not even if he points out that some trans women perform transandrophobic actions or promote transandrophobic views.

But the trans man will always be a threat, after all, he is a man.

i think posts like this show just how utterly disconnected other trans people are from the actual experiences of trans men, and just from trans men in general. bc a lot of y’all literally cannot comprehend that trans men experience anything besides getting misgendered occasionally and having to wear a binder. y’all think that’s the extend of trans masculine existence. because most of y’all do not fucking care to learn a damn thing about us.

we are literally talking about all of the things the second poster mentioned. we are talking about our rates of sexual assault and murder, we’re talking about medical transphobia, we’re talking about employment discrimination, public harassment, how the repeal of roe v wade affects american trans men, etc.

but you know what happens when we do that?

we get told to shut the fuck up.

so like. you gotta pick one. you can’t claim trans men aren’t talking about Serious Stuff that affects us and then actively silence us when we are literally talking about Serious Stuff that affects us.

I'm like. CONSTANTLY advising people to take self defense classes and learn how to use a weapon of their choice. I myself carry at least one knife no matter where I go???

When discussing packers there's concerns about the glance test, the squeeze test, how real it looks and feels, whether it would get you clocked in a bathroom or in an assault situation. Like every site that rates packers that I've ever been to discusses these things for safety.

It's not my fault if the very real physical and sexual violence we face is erased from knowledge, and it certainly doesn't make it any less real.

Glad you mentioned the squeeze test, this is something I've had to teach other trans men, to make sure we don't get clocked in a club, bathhouse, or any other place where a cis woman or cis man thinks it's OK to grope our crotch because consent doesn't count when you pass as a man. I've been gropped, touched without my permission, and hit far more as a man than I ever was as a woman.

For trans men who don't know about the squeeze test. When you get a soft packer, you should put it on adjust it, so it sits right in your boxers and then squeeze your packer, grab it like someone is gropping you, you want to make sure it doesn't feel rigid, squeeze the fat on your stomach (or if you have breasts, that fat) it should feel similar to that. If you have a partner with a natal phallo, and they don't have bottom dysphoria, ask if you can cope a feel to compare.

If someone grabs your crotch at a party, and it's obvious that your packer is not a natal phallo you can get clocked, especially in a bathhouse (an issue I have had before, and I was removed from the bathhouse by security, because the man who gropped me left to make a complaint about a "female" being in the gay bathhouse). I was lucky that it was anonymous, cause if that guy wanted to he could have charged me with Sexual Assault for not disclosing that I was transgender despite the fact that he gropped me without permission while i was giving oral to another guy.

Hard packers and semi-soft packers are harder (no pun intended) to past the squeeze test, so I don't recommend wearing a hard packer out to the club and only wearing a semi-soft to a straight nightclub or a strip club, where you'll be less likely to be touched.

And in regard to violence, there are trans men murdered every year with their corpses genitals mutilated, frequently they are transmasc children.

Other fun issues include: forced detransition, having our bodies weaponized as the reason why trans children shouldn't get to transition, the highest rate of sexual assault among all trans people and all other demographics, the highest rate of suicide among all trans people and all other demographics, the highest rate of medical abuse among all trans people (the only demographic higher is that of black women), the highest amount of abuse during pregnancy of all demographics, no legal protections to abortion even in states that have abortion protection, no legal protections to birth control pills in any state, forced detransition to get access to an abortion, forced detransition to get access to homeless shelters, forced detransition to get any "female" medical care in many states, being denied surgery if you are autistic in several states, being denined surgery if you are mentally ill, depressed, or suicidal (even if not having surgery is what causes those issues), out HRT is only possible through either medical professionls or the black-market (no grey-market or DIY of our hormones are allowed, and can result in being sent to federal prison), speaking of prison - we often fear changing our gender marker because a "M" can get us sent to men's prison -- and not one wants to be the man with a vagina in prison, and MUCH MUCH more!

newly out trans women are getting a crash course education on safety in a misogynistic world. anyone that grew up seen as a woman has lived this reality their entire life, so things that seem like pressing & new information to transfems & trans women who've only been out a few years at most are common knowledge among trans men. the importance of learning basic self defense skills is already a given. people posting information targeted at trans men are not going to focus on something trans men will very likely already know. (edit bc some people have misunderstood my meaning and i want to be clear: misogyny & transmisogyny start well before many people even realize they're trans, but the difference is what information people think you need to know when you start puberty. if you're not seen as a woman at the time, safety information targeted towards women likely won't be shared with you. it's a difference in information access & education - see also gender-divided family life & sex education programs.)

fun fact (/s), it's more dangerous to carry a knife than to go without if you are untrained due to the risk of a more skilled attacker commandeering the knife from you! now your attacker is stronger than you and has a knife. don't carry a knife unless you know how to use it, and don't take self defense weapon recommendations from people who aren't trained well enough to teach someone how to use those weapons.

also, carrying a weapon makes you a threat in the eyes of the legal system & the public, especially if you're Black or brown. you open yourself up to additional risk of arrest & assault the minute someone identifies a weapon on your person, and concealed carrying of weapons can bring increased charges in the event you're arrested. changing gender markers automatically outs you as trans when you seek healthcare, especially reproductive healthcare. it also outs you to the state. murders of transmascs & trans men aren't even reported as hate crimes due to deliberate erasure of our transness & gender identities.

and finally, i typed up a whole thing to talk about this but i think it'll be more concisely explained by just saying this: trans people who get periods can't always avoid public restrooms. look up toxic shock syndrome.

to the people saying shit like this, please stop acting like trans men have zero real issues when you don't listen to them to begin with. oppression of transmasculinity is largely based in erasure, fearmongering, and misinformation; i beg other trans people not to reinforce or ridicule this reality by framing it as though trans men don't talk about any real issues. you don't know what they're talking about precisely because of that erasure.

additional edit: i do not intend for any of this to come across as combative or argumentative, i am simply trying to provide some explanation and additional context regarding the specific issues the two original posters mentioned in the screenshot, & some of the ways transmascs & trans men face those issues that might differ from their own knowlege and experiences. i want the original posters to understand why different communities of trans people might have different priorities than they do.

Heads up - transandrophobes are gonna get much, MUCH worse before this all settles down. We went from barely known to "transandrophobia truthers" to now being just openly called "cuntboys" and "zippertits". I've been sent anon hate for the last three days and I've blocked them all and not responded, and YOU SHOULD DO IT TOO.

I was there when the acephobes and arophobes were foaming at the fucking mouth and this is transandrophobes getting fucking pissed that their shallow ass feminism is being called out. Keep posting, block liberally, do NOT be afraid of stepping away and taking time for yourselves. You don't owe any fights in expense of your mental health.

Have a good day, y'all, especially those in the spotlight such as black and jewish trans men ✌🏻

men in the 70s were like “I’m so very hairy how sexy of me” and they were right

“Trans men can be misogynistic because they’re MEN”

No, everyone can be misogynistic because misogyny is not stored in the gender.

Some of the nastiest misogyny I got to hear growing up came from the women around me.

building off of this post, people love to say that “trans men want to keep going into in women’s spaces after they transition because they just want to have the best of both worlds!” but in my experience, there are four main reasons that a trans man might use a “women’s space” after they transition:

1. it’s an important resource that’s being arbitrarily gendered and we need to use it regardless of which gender is “supposed to” be using it.
2. it’s a public facility where we’d be significantly less safe in the men’s version and we have to choose our safety over our desire to not be misgendered.
3. it’s a social space that we’ve been in since before we transitioned and we don’t want to suddenly be cut off from our friends and support system.
4. the trans man in question is multigender and is also a woman, or maintains some other kind of connection to womanhood alongside their manhood.

do any of those sound like “evil men rubbing our dirty little hands together making plans for how we’re going to get male privilege without losing access to women’s spaces” to you? they sure don’t to me!

i think it’s pretty reasonable that we want to transition without losing the ability to access the resources we need, keep ourselves safe, keep up the relationships we’ve built, and express all facets of who we are. all of those are really, like, pretty basic parts of having good life and we shouldn’t be expected to give them up when we transition.

and honestly, if you claim to care about trans people, you should not be so attached to the gendering of these spaces that you’re willing to deny trans men those things for the sake of upholding gender restrictions. anyone who prioritizes the sanctity of gender segregated spaces over the safety, health, and well-being of trans men is a fucking transphobe. (yes, even if you’re trans yourself.)

and that’s what really gets me about all of this — the vehemence with which people are willing to defend those spaces being entirely and inflexibly gendered, despite how enforcement of gendered spaces has hurt trans people time and time again. gendered spaces have literally always been set up in ways that force trans people to break the rules; some trans men might break those rules in ways that don’t make sense to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong for us to do so! it just means you might feel weird about it and that’s okay, discomfort won’t kill you.

“but using women’s spaces after transitioning to male defeats the purpose of transitioning! the whole point of transitioning is to be able to live as a man!”

and who are you to tell trans men what the point of our transitions should be? what if the purpose of us transitioning is just to live the happiest and most fulfilled life possible, and forcing ourselves into unsafe spaces or denying ourselves access to important resources or cutting ourselves off from important people in our lives or pushing down the more complex parts of our genders would “defeat the purpose of transitioning” for us? what if being able to go where cis men go is just one part of a much bigger journey, not the end goal?

if you really want to talk about “defeating the purpose,” let’s talk about how policing which gendered spaces trans men can access defeats the purpose of trying to stop cis people from policing which gendered spaces trans people can access, because it allows the policing of trans people in gendered spaces to continue in some form instead of eliminating it altogether. let’s talk about how using “evil men invading women’s spaces” rhetoric against trans men defeats the purpose of trying to stop cis people from using it against trans women, because it allows the rhetoric to continue in some form instead of eliminating it altogether.

the point of saying “let people decide which gendered space is right for them” isn’t to make sure everyone uses the one aligned with their “true gender,” it’s to let people do what’s best for them without punishing them for their choice. sometimes the best choice is one that seems wrong from the outside, and you need to learn to live with that.

i just think we as a community need to be more hostile toward people who think upholding the sanctity of a gendered space is more important than giving trans people the freedom to move through the world without being punished for existing in those gendered spaces. that kind of thinking is fucking dangerous and it’s weird as hell that some of y’all are so comfortable with it being directed at us.

moral of the story: stop giving so much of a shit about where a trans man decides to piss or see a doctor or hang out or whatever else. even if you think he doesn’t belong there, he probably has a good reason to be there anyway, and that reason is frankly none of your damn business.

Part of trans liberation is de-gendering spaces. Trans men aren’t given our own recourses. We have NO choice but to exist in these spaces if we need medical care, support, and information. Trans men have also helped build many “women’s only spaces” before transition or even during and after transition, because it is easier to get funding for women’s spaces than it is to get for trans men.

And even if we did have a choice, we have the right to choose to exist in the spaces we feel most comfortable. Being a trans man doesn’t mean you have to give up the small amounts of comfort or safety you have found in these spaces, if you still feel safe and comfortable and at home in them. Being a trans man doesn’t mean we suddenly have to give up support, we aren’t required to suffer.

We aren’t “getting the best of both worlds”, we are asking for safety and support because we do not have the benefits granted to cis women or cis men. Systematically speaking, trans people have the worst of both worlds. And despite what some people think. Trans people include trans men.

You do not get to punish us for becoming men.

If you want to ban transgender men from “women’s spaces”, you want us dead. Period.

Oh you’re actually just a shitty horrible horrible person

I want to take a moment to talk about transandrophobia and cisgender men. I've spoken a lot in the pass about cis women and other trans people who attack or dismiss transgender men for being men out of the fear of men or the fear of their daughters becoming men or the fear of lesbian lovers becoming men.

However, cis men also fear trans men's manhood. Cis men often feel threatened by our existence, since they view us as a challenge to their identity and their manhood. Cis men are terrified of the concept that a "woman" can become a man. So often they are horrified by the concept of us growing cocks or getting srs, of use having facial hair, gaining muscle, behaving masculine or feminine, walking into the showers, their gym spaces, using the urinal, pissing on the side of the road, or just being in any way male. Cis men don't just dislike that we're trans, they actively dislike that we're men, they fear us being men because if a "woman" can become a man, that challenges the structure of the patriarchy, it challenges the system, and it "perverts" the meaning of male and redefines manhood and masculinity. In doing so, we force cis men to consider these binaries and that scares them, we terrify them with the concept of "women" gaining access to male spaces where they might see them vulnerable.

“trans men don’t experience misogyny because they’re men thus cannot experience women’s oppression”

I hate to tell you this but even cis men experience misogyny if they step a toe over the line of what our incredibly sexist society sees as “proper” for a man. You really don’t think that a man with interests or expression the world sees as “female” aren’t treated with violence?

“would you say that of other privileged groups? do you think white people experience racism?”

I mean sometimes they do yeah. I know a white guy with monolid eyes and zero known Asian ancestors and he absolutely experiences anti-Asian racism on a fairly regular basis because people think he’s mixed Asian/white. I know a woman who was told throughout her life that she was Native as an adoptee with no known history or background who experienced incredibly violent amounts of anti-Native racism until she discovered as an adult through DNA test that she is 100% white. I know white people who tan incredibly dark in the summer comparatively that are constantly accused of being mixed race and experiencing racism due to that, usually anti-Mexican racism perpetrated against white people with Greek or Italian ancestors.

Their ability to make it stop by saying “hey, I’m white actually” only goes as far as the person enacting violence on them is willing to believe them. They still have to live with the trauma and physical scars from the altercations. We live in a racist world and thus there will be violent people who force all others to pass a whiteness test and eliminating or harming the rest.

Got an ask that I just block/deleted but it was basically “so you think cis people experience transphobia!?!?!?!?” and uh

If you think cis butches don’t experience both transphobia and misogyny and homophobia for daring to be women who break gender roles while still holding onto their womanhood you’ve sorely misunderstood just how bad butches have it in this world sorry. If you don’t think cis queens experience transphobia and homophobia and misogyny for daring to be men who break gender roles while being loud and proud about it and still holding onto their manhood then you’ve sorely mistaken just how bad they have it in this world as well.

Not to mention all of the cis men who wear dresses and skirts and makeup and nail polish and heels simply because they like them who experience all of these things. All of the cis straight women who simply just exist but something about them doesn’t pass society’s “woman enough” test, leading to them being caught in bathroom bills and sporting rules and being attacked by people who mistake them for being transgender or gay.

Just like how straight people experience homophobia to such a degree that they literally beat their children out of any potential deviance from rigidly upheld gender roles and let politicians make jokes on national TV about how they’d drown their pre-teen kids if they came out as LGBT. Do you really think a straight kid still figuring themselves out hears that and doesn’t internalize that homophobia? Doesn’t rigidly hold themselves to some impossible standard so that no one could ever possibly think they’re gay? You don’t think straight teenage boys who maybe don’t pass some bully’s straightness test are getting the shit kicked out of them for “being gay” when, surprise, they aren’t? You don’t think all those kids being attacked by their priests and coaches and teachers are being told “this wouldn’t have happened if you weren’t gay” when they’re literally not gay? Do you know how many straight kids had close calls at my school that famously expels all gay kids, because someone made up a believable enough rumor? Do you know how many of them still got their shit kicked in even though administration ultimately decided to let them stay?

All bigotry is violent and all bigotry catches people it doesn’t “intend” to and hurts them as well. It doesn’t matter what someone’s label is, or if they even have one. It matters if the person enacting the violence is doing it because their victim didn’t pass whatever “acceptable enough” test they didn’t know they were being subjected to.

Everyone is at risk. Oppression doesn’t care what your label is. Some people are more visible targets than others, and as a result those people are the more common targets. That doesn’t mean no one else experiences it.

My first post to reach 2k without people clowning in the notes I feel so proud

At 40.5k I regret to inform everyone that there have been so many clowns in the notes, I might as well call it a circus. It was fun while it lasted I guess.

Anyway this is just how hate crimes and systems of oppression works, literally the legal definition of a hate crime deliberately states that it doesn’t matter what the victim’s identity is, it matters what the perpetrator’s reason was, so people who are not [oppressed group] absolutely can be victims of [violence towards oppressed group] and have it be labeled a hate crime. Hope that helps.