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The Boxoffice Podcast is your #1 resource for news and analysis about movies and the movie business. We'll be your guide through these evolving and sometimes disruptive times. While breaking down film headlines, exploring box office results, and chatting with studio & cinema executives, we'll discuss all aspects of movies and entertainment. By movie lovers for movie lovers!
I think that's a message that doesn't get across that often. We hear a lot about the chains and maybe even the specialty cinemas, but we're not hearing about individual organizations. They're oftentimes sort of water coolers in their own communities or islets.
Speaker 2:This is the Box Office Podcast. I'm Daniel Loria, the editorial director of Box Office Pro The Pulse, a theatrical exhibition. And here today on our panel, we've got Rebecca Polley and Chad Kenner from Box Office Pro. And providing an update on our forecasting, we've got Romeo Duchenne from The Box Office Company going over this weekend at the box office and what we can expect. In our feature segment to this week, Rebecca Polley speaks to Leila Mead O'Connor, the board head of Arthouse Convergence.
Speaker 2:They just released a new survey of Arthouse audiences, the Art House business. What do we have coming up here on the feature, Rebecca?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, it's been a busy couple months for Art House Convergence. They had Index, their trade show kind of successor to the old Art House Convergence pre pandemic. They had Art House Cinema Day. And as you said, they've released, this survey that really showcases the health of the independent sector of the industry.
Speaker 3:So we just wanted to kinda bring her on and have a conversation about all the various things that have been happening for AHC these last few weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Great to get a catch up on the specialty market. If I sound like I just smoked 3 pack of cigarettes, I didn't. It sounds like it, but, no. My baby is sick, which means I am sick.
Speaker 2:I'm in the, like, monthly cold schedule. Let's kick off the episode with the news going over a big rebreath in the world of concessions. Chad, the largest concessions trade group is rebranding.
Speaker 4:Yeah. The National Association of Concessionaires or NAC, has announced plans to rebrand as Entertainment Food and Beverage Association, which will be EFBA for short. They've updated their mission statement, and, really, the name change is aiming to better reflect the diverse needs of operators and the suppliers.
Speaker 3:Makes sense. I mean, they used to be a trade group for pretty much exclusively the movie theater concessions, and they branch out. And now it's concessions and hospitality, like zoos and museums or sports stadiums. And now, they bring it around even even further because, you know, as as we know, in the movie theater concessions world, the popcorn and then sodas and quote unquote concessions are only part of the story now. We got a lot of dine in.
Speaker 3:We got a lot of entertainment center stuff going on, so I think it's a good move.
Speaker 2:Big evolution in that side of the business. Elsewhere, here in New York City, we've got an update on a big renovation in one of the most important multiplexes in New York.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That is the Alamo Drafthouse in downtown Brooklyn. The first one that opened in New York and, I think Alamo's, highest traffic movie theater that they have in the country. But, yeah, they've been renovating it for, for quite a long time. They have finished those renovations and brought back, 5 additional theaters, which, you know, I always, yeah, I always think it's a good thing.
Speaker 3:Clearly, they put the numbers in. They've they've run the numbers to see that this is Cedar could really benefit from a big boost. So, yeah, I don't live 20 minutes away from it anymore, which is sad.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to go back. It was the 1st Alamo to open in the New York City area, and I think it made a really big impact here in the movie going soon.
Speaker 3:1st and best. Yeah. Definitely the at least the the horror nerd community that latched on right away.
Speaker 2:And, well, it's not a horror movie. It is, let's say, a thriller of sorts. We've got some news here on the regal side. They are coming in with a special double feature of Twister Singular from 1996 and the sequel Twisters that just came out couple weeks back. Those 2 are coming back for a special one week run on 4 d x at the end of the month.
Speaker 2:Starting on Friday, August 30th, audiences can have a twister and twisters double feature in 4 d x. The 4 d x numbers for this, film guys have been crazy. Well, they sold they
Speaker 3:they sold out. I mean, the 4 d x for twisters, it's, those are a tough ticket to get. They when they sold out real quick, so it it totally makes sense here for for Regal to bring it back.
Speaker 2:I love these moviegoing destination incentives, like this double feature coming out. And it's a great way for Regal to really show off their investment in this, immersive seating technology. So that is coming up at the end of the month. Now let's talk about what's coming up on Friday, next couple of days, because we've got another weekend following the fantastic record setting run of Deadpool and Wolverine. That movie just keeps on earning over $850,000,000 in worldwide box office, more than $400,000,000 domestically, finished number 1 in its first two frames.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if it's gonna end up here at number 1 in its 3rd frame. We do have it right now forecasted as our top movie of this weekend with a range between 5,060,000,000. But, hey, don't sleep on Blake Lively, and It Ends With Us, guys. This Sony release is just tracking up, up, and up. Prerelease, we've got a forecast between 4555,000,000.
Speaker 2:So it's currently in our 2nd place, but it could overtake Deadpool and Wolverine. Blake Lively beating out her husband, Ryan Reynolds, for that top of the box office. Don't discount that. Don't count that out. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but there is a chance here.
Speaker 2:If it ends with us, keeps on tracking as highly as it is. Romeo, you've been tracking a number of titles for us in our forecasting panel. You're not that confident that it's gonna turn out that way. You still think it's gonna be Deadpool 1, it ends with us second.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. Hi, everyone. Well, it's it's funny you say that because, before talking to you, I had a feeling I was quite high regarding my forecast because I do have a strong feeling about this movie. You know?
Speaker 5:I don't know I don't know about you, Daniel, but I have this feeling, you know, when something everything comes together at the right place at the right time. I think it's kind of like what's happening with It Ends With Us because, you told, like, the relationship between Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively. Blake Lively, she's the only one from Gossip Girl that kept this, this popularity over the years. And, let's start with some, comparable, titles now. We can easily quote where the Crawdads scenes opened at 17 Right.
Speaker 5:And came at 90,000,000.
Speaker 2:And that's back and when was it? 22, 21 when that opened? That's an August release. Another book adaptation targeted mostly towards women, adult women. $17,000,000 doesn't sound like much today, but back when this opened in the post pandemic market, it was something.
Speaker 2:And, boy, did that lag out. Now, like you mentioned, from a 17,000,000 opening to a 90,000,000 theatrical run, we expect this to be a little bit more balanced, a heavier opening weekend, and a lower multiple for It Ends With Us because it's a different market at this point.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Exactly. It's a different market, and, I do have the feeling they manage this they have managed to create this emergency of going to movie theater this weekend, you know, to watch this movie. Mhmm. But you you said that those kind of movie usually have a high ratio between The Cume and The Weekend, but this is not our feeling of about this movie.
Speaker 5:This movie is going to well, my feeling is going to boom the the same with the the first weekend, and then probably going going to have a a normal, cycle life for a movie, should I say. But, yeah, let's go back to the comps. Maybe I can quote, like, an I01. Daniel, you you probably like this one better. The 14 hour stars that open at 48,000,000 and QMAT more than a $125,000,000 in the US.
Speaker 2:That makes a little bit more sense to what we're looking at. I know pre pandemic title, always risky to go with that. But those numbers sound a lot more aligned to what we're hearing from the rest of our forecasting panel with folks representing exhibition, distribution, and premium large format.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I also like well, if you wanna find 1 post pandemic, I know this one is not perfect, but I like it because it's also from Sony. It's anyone but you and also made quite a surprise at the time. But this one has kind of like a weird weekend breakdown. This one only opened at 6,000,000.
Speaker 5:I think it was during Christmas time. And I think the 1st weekend was probably the 3rd of the 4th highest weekend of this movie because it did, like, 6 then 8 then 12.
Speaker 3:It kept
Speaker 2:So it's a bit hard. To use that as a comp. I mean, it was such a word-of-mouth hit in an otherwise empty empty holiday corridor. I think it ends with us is gonna have a lot more competition in terms of new films opening up. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And the word-of-mouth, yes, I think will impact, but not in the same way or to the same multiple that we saw Anyone But You Open With. Now you do mention these other titles, Fault in Our Stars, Anyone But You, or The Crawdads saying in saying that there is a core audience that will show up, maybe not on opening weekend, but will show up to see this. Now that we have a more balanced, let's say, return to movies, tendency from cinema goers, I do tend to agree with you that we will likely see a slightly larger opening weekend crowd and a smoother multiple in in the coming weeks. But that $90,000,000 plus Cune performance domestically from all these three titles gives me a lot of confidence on what we could see performance wise from this. Chad, you had mentioned in last week's episode that this book series is insanely popular.
Speaker 2:What were those book sale numbers that that you had quoted?
Speaker 4:Yeah. We talked about the cohorts last week.
Speaker 2:And That's the fans of author Colleen Hoover Right. Calling himself this cohort. It's a horrible name. You gotta come up with a better one. Sorry.
Speaker 2:But fine. Yeah. Let's hope they show up.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. Because they showed up for her sequel book, It Starts With Us, which came out in 2022. That sold over 800,000 copies by the end of its release day.
Speaker 2:Wow. Yeah. I mean, the the public is there. Now, Rebecca, you very well know what the rush of Hot Books debuting can be like. You worked at a Barnes and Noble during the Harry Potter craze.
Speaker 3:My first day, at one point was, the day that the 4th Twilight book came out, and I had no clue what that franchise even was. That came out of nowhere for me. So, oh, it sounds like that's a potential situation, here as well. It's like this whole whole other I mean, it's the same thing we're talking about, like, anime and and and concert films, and there there are niches out there. We'll we'll see.
Speaker 3:Hopefully, they've, you know, gotten their kids off to school after summer vacation or having a glass of wine and decide to go see movie.
Speaker 2:And there's some activations I think that may be interesting in terms of, getting in contact with bookstores or local book clubs that might be interested in this. This might be maybe even a group sales contender. We haven't seen too much in terms of that. But this seems like the sort of film where fans of this movie aren't gonna go alone. Right?
Speaker 2:And and if it hits, I don't think they're just gonna go once. So very compelling title here. Let's go to the number 3 movie here that we have. It's twisters. We expect it to end up in 3rd place with a potential spoiler here.
Speaker 2:In 4th place right now, hovering in that wild card spot that might sneak into 3rd, we've got borderlands, the Lionsgate movie that's been very much delayed over the last couple of years, finally hitting screens. It currently has 15% of the Showtime market share in the country. We expect Borderlands to open between 8 and $12,000,000 domestically. Romeo, are you a little bit more positive in this title? Because this can really go either way.
Speaker 2:I can see this finishing in the single digits, high single digits, or maybe even getting somewhere in the teens that could be a little bit more hopeful.
Speaker 5:I'm sorry, Daniel, but this time, I can't ignore the red flags. I really can't. I mean and when I was working for Unilever Soul Pictures, if I did think that for Warcraft and Warcraft did 24,000,000 opening weekend. And I did think that, but not to the same extent. So Mhmm.
Speaker 5:Story. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So is this adaptation here?
Speaker 3:Trying to get a lot of Borderlands like they, like they love Warcraft or I don't think it
Speaker 5:is. Oh,
Speaker 2:but And they're really
Speaker 5:serious when they're trying
Speaker 2:it. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 5:The thing is it's like you come out after Deadpool, Wolverine that has this edgy vibe. You need edgy vibe nowadays for sci fi and action. So and I don't feel that way. I don't feel it from, from Borderlands. But let's talk about data and comps.
Speaker 5:I can also quote Tom Raider that was released pre pre pandemic that did 24,000,000 opening weekend.
Speaker 2:That's the Alicia Vikander remake, obviously, not the not the Angelina Jolie one. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And I don't want to hurt us too much, but I need to finish on Uncharted. That opened at 44, middle opening weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was that was,
Speaker 5:like, you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a But,
Speaker 1:yeah, that meant I had
Speaker 3:nothing else nothing else out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. And you had obviously baby Spider Man playing that role, that lead role. We don't have a baby Spider Man here. We got Tar playing one of the lead roles.
Speaker 2:As much as I love my Cate Blanchett, she seems to be quarterly cast here.
Speaker 5:But putting feeling aside, when you look at Google search, I mean, it's it it reflects exactly what we've been saying. It's so lower compared to Tom Raider and, and Warcraft. And I do have gaps in my, in my data. That means that some days, Google was not able to track the number of search because they were not
Speaker 2:editing. That awareness was.
Speaker 5:Yes. Yikes.
Speaker 3:And this movie's been I mean, I've you can see in trailers for this for years. Like, it's an Eli Roth movie. It's it's not directed by someone who already answers that. I'm not it up. I just Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, Eli Roth's name is nowhere near the marketing materials. Maybe they don't wanna alienate the the horror audiences by making them expect something that this film isn't.
Speaker 3:I mean, he's done PG 13 stuff before. Like, it's not
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's it wouldn't be weird for him doing it. Very, very odd. Now I did see a big push on this, for Comic Con. I'm hoping that that crowd shows up and supports the film, but we really have very low expectations at this point prior to release.
Speaker 2:We're all rooting for it to overperform, by the way. We're not. We don't wanna gang up on this. We're just saying the red flags are there. We're concerned.
Speaker 2:It could sneak into 3rd place. It might end up in 4th. I think Twisters might have enough force to finish with that 3rd place
Speaker 3:spot. You know, it was, you know, golden era for video game movies, So, maybe that'll that'll hold a little bit and bring some more people in, or maybe this will just be a a little outlier here in a bad way.
Speaker 2:Waiting to
Speaker 3:All video game movies used to do poorly. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. No. There's a different standard here. But something that Romeo said earlier, I think, is very telling.
Speaker 2:I think, ultimately, the release date didn't do any favors. It got squished between Deadpool and Wolverine. And right after it, we've got an alien Romulus from 20th Century Studios that's preselling very, very well. Now something to be mindful of, we heard this in our forecasting panel, a lot of these r rated franchises like Furiosa will presell very well, but then the walk ups that you bake into that opening weekend number might not show up. We got burned with Furiosa with that.
Speaker 2:The presales were great from the fan community, great buzz, great awareness, great anticipation, but the general audience didn't show up to Furiosa. Now, Elian Romulus, every indication we have here 2 weeks out is positive, but we'll have a much better outlook on how that opens in next week's episode where we will go over our final forecast for Elian Romulus, and we will bring our friend and colleague, Ross Fisher, to go over the entirety of the box office history of the alien movies, including those Alien versus Predator movies that I will watch between now and tomorrow. I am not looking forward to that exercise, but I'm getting paid for it, so why not?
Speaker 3:I don't know, guys. They I I still need to watch Requiem and but the first alien versus predator. Oof.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You you you have to sit down and watch it. I mean, there's no other way to to do it. Just grit your teeth. There's there's tougher jobs out there, Rebecca, than, watching movies
Speaker 3:Somehow somehow I'll make it
Speaker 1:through, Daniel.
Speaker 3:Somehow I'll survive.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Chad, Rebecca, and Romeo for your insights here in the news segment. Coming up next, Rebecca Polley interviews. Leila Meadow Conner, the head of the board of the Art House Convergence Group that is coming up after the break.
Speaker 3:And we are joined on the box office podcast now by Leila Meht O'Connor, producer and board president of ArtHouse Convergence. You guys have had a really busy few weeks. You had, index your, your first post pandemic trade show back in Chicago in June. It was a really great time to gather. There, you released the results of a national audience survey, which you can see on the ArtHouse Convergence website under, data and and resources.
Speaker 3:And, there was also, the comeback of Independent Art House Cinema Day. So it's, great to have you on the podcast to kinda catch up on, what the indie sector of the industry is up to. With that show, which was really great, ArtHouse Convergence has has really had a lot going on. You had, National ArtHouse Cinema Day a a few weeks back, and there is a, survey that you, showcased results from at index to kind of update people on the health of the the independent and art house sectors. So as as any of our listeners know, we we all like the indie art house sector a lot here at box office, so it's it's great to have you here to kind of update us on what the situation is, with that sector of the industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me and it was so great to run into you very briefly at Index. I know there were, you know, more than 700 people there and it was it was hard to impossible, you know, like, to see everybody, but I think that the overall vibe of, like, joy and just the community and being together was pretty evident.
Speaker 3:The other trade shows like CinemaCon and and that what struck me about Index is the tone was optimistic, which I'm which I'm not used to, for for the first half of this year, it was very much, you know, kind of doom and gloom, justifiably so. Like, there hadn't really been any, you know, inside out 2 hadn't come out. The slate was thin. But it seems like on the arthouse side of things, you've had a good year so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so. That's funny that you say that. So I went to CinemaCon for the first time this year, and it was so interesting to me to see that. And I think you're right.
Speaker 1:I think that, because there's a real sense of community with the Film Festival Alliance, you know, people and the Artest Convergence people, and I think because we're all, you know, mission driven, community driven organizations, it really does kind of come through in the way that we gather together. And because we hadn't gathered since 2020, in person, it was so it was just even more exciting to be together and to share, you know, what we'd what we'd accomplished and how we'd made it through and what we're hoping to do in the future.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I definitely felt that that pent up demand. Everyone was such a great show. And I know one of the things, that that was addressed to the show was this national audience survey, that that you guys, did. I think the art house sector has the same, kind of, I guess, problem as as the larger, cinema ecosystem when it comes to messaging.
Speaker 3:Like, there can be really loud, really wrong voices out there saying that everything is is awful in the cinema exhibition industry and movie theaters were a thing of the past. What's your goal in doing this survey to kind of, challenge that narrative about, about the art house sector?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, really, it the main goal for our survey is to find out for our cinemas what their audiences are thinking, 1st and foremost. And then having, you know, the icing on the cake is is all the good news that we found out out of, the 46 cinemas across the country participated and we had more than 32,000 respondents, which was really exciting. And in the overall consensus is that people love their Art of Cinema.
Speaker 1:You know, 97% say that it it adds to their quality of life and what more could you ask for? And people are going to their Art of Cinema for their curation, specifically, and for that community feel. And I think that that's a message that doesn't get across that often. We hear a lot about the chains and and maybe even the specialty cinemas, but we're not hearing about individual organizations that they're often times sort of water coolers in their own in their own communities or islands. And I think that's another reason why Coming Together Index was so important because it shows the power of what everybody's doing in one place and and how often overlooked a a small cinema and small town might be, but what they're providing for their community is is absolutely essential.
Speaker 1:I think the other thing that was cool to see from the survey is that there are new attendees coming to cinemas and there are younger attendees coming to cinemas. And I think, you know, we often get caught in the mire of Art of Cinema patrons or, you know, of a certain generation and they may not be around much longer, but it's so cool to see that we have young people also flocking to this curation. I think a lot of that has to do with the programming of the reptiles and the and the really interesting programs and the and the festivals that they're putting on. And I think that is really a key to to cultivating newer cinema audiences all around.
Speaker 3:Art House cinema day. Talk to talk to me about that. That was, shortly after Art House Convergence. We have cinemas across across North America kind of banding together to create this, you know, campaign, like a National Cinema Day specifically, for for Art House Cinemas. How did that go for you guys?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That was so exciting because we hadn't done an Art House Theater Day since 2019, and we had over 90 cinemas from across the country, programming for Art House Theater Day. We had a slate of films that we offered, but, of course, anyone who was able to play whatever film they wanted in celebration. But we were really excited because we got to show the 40th anniversary of 4 k restoration of the Terminator with a special q and a with Jim Cameron and Galen Hurd. And that was pretty exciting.
Speaker 1:And I think, you know, it's also just goes to show about the curation of art house cinema, where people might think of the Terminator not as an independent film. Although, Galen will tell you back in the day it was an independent film. Mhmm. But it really is about that creativity and and being able to provide a q and a and bring people together and tell stories about movies.
Speaker 3:That's one of the things I really loved about, specifically, the the rep revival panel at, Index. Let's talk about, like, kind of what constitutes independent movie or an art house movie. And it's not necessarily, like, things like Terminator that you think of when you think art house cinema, but these younger patrons particularly want to see some of these films that, like, to a lot of people who've been in this industry for a while might not immediately check that box of, like, quote, unquote, classic cinema.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that really speaks to the fact that Art House cinema is about curation. It's about being creative. It's about q and a's. It's about community building.
Speaker 1:And several of the theaters that we've heard back from so far said that the Terminator was their best Art House Theater Day screening ever.
Speaker 3:It's so great to see that in a time when, like, everyone's, like, oh, we're not back up to 2019 levels yet. Like, that's a reasonable goal. Like, the world's completely different now. That comparison really has no, like, purpose. But assuming for the second it does, like, Art House theatres are doing better than they did in 2019.
Speaker 3:In in many of these cases, I I feel like there's been, like, a a vibe shift in the industry and and and you guys have really been able to ride that wave.
Speaker 1:And there are a lot of people who haven't even seen some of these movies. And we think about, you know, classic cinema. We're not thinking about the eighties nineties per se. But, you know, of their but these younger audiences haven't seen these movies and they haven't seen them on the big screen and they're nostalgic for Gen x too. So I think it's a real win win.
Speaker 3:It's such an exciting Yeah. Like, vital time in in the art house cinema space and I I feel like I just kinda left recharged, like, I wanna go to indie cinema.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. And I think that, you know, we we just launched our first paid membership, which is really exciting, and the response has been incredible. We weren't sure how the community was going to respond, but I think everyone understands that we need the support to be able to provide the, professional development that we're going to provide to the community and other services that we're hoping to offer. We'll, of course, be announcing another conference at some point soon, and we're working on other initiatives as well.
Speaker 3:I mean, the the independent cinemas have really come roaring back, over these last few years, and it's great to see ArtHouse Convergence and Film Festival Alliance do that as well. There really is a a community of of passionate, knowledgeable people out there who just love talking about independent cinemas and and all the nitty gritty details. So, yeah, anyone who's who's listening who might just even even someone like myself who doesn't necessarily work, for for an indie cinema, but just loves them. Art House Convergence is a is a really great resource.
Speaker 2:And that was Leila Mead O'Connor from Art House Convergence speaking with our very own Rebecca Polley. Thank you so much for joining us for this week's edition of the box office podcast. Earlier, you heard from my colleagues, Rebecca Polley, Romeo Duchenne, and Chad Kenner. We will come back next week with a new episode of this podcast. Hopefully, my voice is back.
Speaker 2:Who knows? We'll see what more surprises daycare brings me in terms of colds and viruses, but we will find out next week. Thank you again, and we'll talk soon.