Smokey07

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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
ilions-end
ilions-end

before their duel in the iliad, hector lists his capabilities as a warrior to ajax, including "I know how to turn to the right, how to turn to the left the ox-hide tanned into a shield which is my protection in battle; I know how to tread my measures on the grim floor of the war god."

a super interesting annotation by richard martin:

Hektor compares his knowledge of fighting to dance: the "measures" which he treads with his shield are even reflected in the meter and phrasing of these lines. A war dance in armour (pyrrhiké), well known and practiced in Classical times, surely had predecessors, to which these lines may allude.

i am ENRAPTURED by the mental image of hector solemnly performing some kind of ur-pyrrhichios with the other trojan men

image

(image is the pyrrhic dance by lawrence alma-tadema)

reblog this is interesting reading the iliad line by line and analyze every single word is the only way to go because wtf is this i skipped this shit entirely the iliad homer iliad tagammemnon
deadbaguette

lostintranslaation asked:

Tell me more about Achilles and Diomedes being foils 🧎‍♀️‍➡️

smokey07 answered:

Ohohoho

You’re in for a ride my friend. Buckle up.

Let’s start at the beginning.

Achilles, a demigod, was born with the prophecy that he would be greater than his father ever be.

Diomedes was born with the responsibility to finish whatever his father left behind and his father was sometimes considered greater than him. There is no guarantee for greatness like Achilles.

Both of their fathers were both great and established heroes.

They both had deities watching over and actively protecting them since they were small: Thetis and Athena. Thetis was however Achilles’ mother. Her involvement was out of love, Athena was a bit more conditional like a football coach.

During the recruitment of the war, Diomedes was a willing participant as he was often listed as a suitor. Achilles had nothing to do with it. His participation was for his own kleos rather than an oath bound and/or honor.

Both of them joined the war with their close brother in arms/companions. (For Achilles it was more complicated with Patroclus but whatever it’s not important here)

In the Iliad Diomedes was the main attack force for half of the book as the stand in and Achilles/Patroclus occupied the other half after Diomedes was injured. He also showed he acted differently from Achilles: a bit more reserved and goal oriented. He would spare people if they served a greater purpose (Odysseus during the Palladium heist), he would not rebuke Agamemnon but let him do what he wanted as long was it did not affect anything major, he volunteered in various missions other than those in the battlefield. Notably in book 9, when they failed to convince Achilles he was the one who was aware of this outcome, which was to me very telling. They didn’t seem to be close but i guess there could be some level of understanding.

Achilles did not outlive the war but Diomedes fucking did. He got shot by Paris and dropped dead while Diomedes trashed talk Paris and walked away (albeit injured).

In the end in some versions Diomedes made peace with his enemy (Aeneas) and later deified. A mortal became a god and the god died as a mortal.

Their story just imo run opposite directions.

smokey07

For my mutual @deadbaguette who wants a Diomedes-Neoptolemus parallel.

I consider Neoptolemus a darker and twisted version of Diomedes, who unfortunately did not escape the shadow of his very own father.

Interestingly even in the start both of them were already very similar. They were son of great established war heroes who were aided by deities Athena and Thetis, who later also aided them. (Thetis in one version took Neoptolemus away pretty soon if I remember correctly.)

Tydeus was almost an immortal, Diomedes succeeded in becoming one. While Achilles died as a mortal, Neoptolemus also suffered the same fate.

Both of them were born in the home of their mothers, Skyros and Argos. Both of their fathers stayed at their wives’ house before going to war.

Their mothers also had a somewhat similar names: Deidamia and Deipyle 😭😭

There was so exact confirmation of Neo’s age during the Trojan war but we can say he’s probably a teen. Diomedes joined his first war as 14 years old which also made him a teen.

They both somewhat had a responsibility to finish their father’s wars. Diomedes became one of the Epigoni who vowed to take over Thebes, while Neoptolemus was one of the final factors to end the Trojan War.

They joined in the very same war that their fathers failed and walked out of it alive. Diomedes managed to take over Thebes and Neoptolemus sacked Troy.

They both carried a remnant of their fathers into war: Diomedes with the sword of Tydeus and Neoptolemus with the whole attire.

Their fathers’ names were also the things that overshadowed them greatly. Their own identities matter less than their fathers’.

They both became kings after their first war but then later in life left their previous kingdom, either willingly or forcefully, to establish kingdoms in another places.

tagamemnon the iliad homer iliad greek mythology diomedes neoptolemus pyrrhus random thoughts trojan war the epic cycle hopefully i did not forget anything else

lostintranslaation asked:

Tell me more about Achilles and Diomedes being foils 🧎‍♀️‍➡️

Ohohoho

You’re in for a ride my friend. Buckle up.

Let’s start at the beginning.

Achilles, a demigod, was born with the prophecy that he would be greater than his father ever be.

Diomedes was born with the responsibility to finish whatever his father left behind and his father was sometimes considered greater than him. There is no guarantee for greatness like Achilles.

Both of their fathers were both great and established heroes.

They both had deities watching over and actively protecting them since they were small: Thetis and Athena. Thetis was however Achilles’ mother. Her involvement was out of love, Athena was a bit more conditional like a football coach.

During the recruitment of the war, Diomedes was a willing participant as he was often listed as a suitor. Achilles had nothing to do with it. His participation was for his own kleos rather than an oath bound and/or honor.

Both of them joined the war with their close brother in arms/companions. (For Achilles it was more complicated with Patroclus but whatever it’s not important here)

In the Iliad Diomedes was the main attack force for half of the book as the stand in and Achilles/Patroclus occupied the other half after Diomedes was injured. He also showed he acted differently from Achilles: a bit more reserved and goal oriented. He would spare people if they served a greater purpose (Odysseus during the Palladium heist), he would not rebuke Agamemnon but let him do what he wanted as long was it did not affect anything major, he volunteered in various missions other than those in the battlefield. Notably in book 9, when they failed to convince Achilles he was the one who was aware of this outcome, which was to me very telling. They didn’t seem to be close but i guess there could be some level of understanding.

Achilles did not outlive the war but Diomedes fucking did. He got shot by Paris and dropped dead while Diomedes trashed talk Paris and walked away (albeit injured).

In the end in some versions Diomedes made peace with his enemy (Aeneas) and later deified. A mortal became a god and the god died as a mortal.

Their story just imo run opposite directions.

tagamemnon the iliad homer iliad greek mythology trojan war the epic cycle diomedes achilles random thoughts i want to draw them clash some day
leynaeithnea
leynaeithnea

I think the reason why I don't like Paris is because love isn't supposed to doom us

Its supposed to safe us

But he is the epitome of destruction caused and allowed in the name of love


There is something too truthful in the unconditional love that leads to the inevidable destruction of the entire city that at just makes me want to send all these arrows he shot right back at him

smokey07

Ironically I personally know someone like Paris, who did something ofc not as horrible as leveling a city but still quite destructive.

And guess what? This person’s love ones did exactly what Priam, Hector and others did. Protect him and get him back.

Unconditional love doomed them all. The worst part was that they consciously knew exactly what they did.

tagammemnon 3000 years later and we are just the same paris of troy every character is so interesting
tulliolamonster
tulliolamonster

Quick pose structure sketch for Sunny and Sides as Castor and Pollux. I really want to do them justice, but frankly, their shins and calves look very intimidating to draw

image

I might finish them at an odd pace, since they’re going to be my decompression exercise as I approach an important interview

THAT IS SO SMARTTTTTTTTT OP YOUR BRAIN IS CRAZY/pos reblog transformers maccadam tagamemnon ancient greek mythology castor and pollux sideswipe sunstreaker