1. Concept of Canon/Canonicity Subjects
Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4
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2. Paratext for Fiction and Fandom
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3. Original Work and Original Plan - Japanese Peritext
Google Doc Version for full viewing (especially for Paratext Examples)
Editor Notes: Yet another repost from an old side blog. Enjoy :3
Fun fact. Several parts of Kingdom Hearts 2 were mistranslated by the localization team. These translation errors include a hilarious misspelling of Braig seen above ^
These mistranslations also include cutscenes as seen in probably the most well known error:
This scene threw many for a loop back in the day myself included. However after all the theories were thrown and discussions made it turned out this was an error in localization.
You see here in the original Japanese sub titles:
What Roxas is actually saying here isn’t described by a pronoun such as “he” or “she” or anything gender specific.
Rather what Roxas is asking is more akin to “Why did it pick you?” or most likely “Why were you chosen?”
Roxas of course saying this in relation to the keyblade itself as it was the mystery of why Roxas himself could wield that plauged him at times as we seen in Days or scenes from KH2 of Roxas leaving the Organization.
Roxas was Sora’s nobody and so if he could understand why Sora was chosen then perhaps he could understand why he himself had been.
One last thing to point out isn’t so much a translation error as a difference in culture. There weren’t many but some questioned what Ansem the Wise meant when he “wrote report 0″ as seen here.
There’s no real error here but just a difference in culture. You see in Japan they dont start their numerical count at 1 but 0.
SOOOOO ironically this was one thing that was translated accurately but shouldn’t have been since the Ansem reports themselves in Japan start at 0 whereas in our versions of the game they begin at 1.
Basically Ansem the Wise, aka DiZ, was saying he only ever wrote KH1 Ansem’s Report #1 while Xehanort wrote the rest.
Do you have any mistranslations or tidbits you’d like to add? Whether it be KH2 or otherwise dont be shy. :D
Adding to this, one sort of mistranslation was having Goofy say His majesty banished Pete to another dimension–when in the Japanese, version they used a gender neutral pronoun there–since in Birth by Sleep, we learn it was Minnie who banished Pete, not Mickey:
And going along with what you said in the cultural differences thing, here we have Merlin talking about the “Zero District,” which normally we would never hear in English (since we start counting with one, whereas in Japan they start with zero).
And speaking of this “Zero District,” I think I agree with Blackdrazon, who wrote in his Kingdom Hearts II retrospective that this line shows that in earlier drafts of Kingdom Hearts II, the Radiant Garden stuff was probably supposed to take place in Traverse Town… because there are no districts in Radiant Garden: but there sure are in Traverse Town (in fact, I’m almost certain that Traverse Town’s First District is called the Zero District in the Japanese version, which is probably what Merlin is talking about here). This was probably from an earlier version of the script and accidentally stayed in there… Unless Merlin is still just magically going to Traverse Town, even though he shouldn’t be able to anymore, lore-wise. Merlin is a powerful wizard, where certain rules of the series don’t affect him for that reason, but ehh.
Well, for that Pete one though, Goofy specifically mentions Mickey by referring to him as “King” (王様), so that’s correct as “His Majesty”. So if it was retconned to be Minnie specifically then that’s less of a translation issue:
For the Roxas one, the “Why were you chosen?” is definitely more accurate as opposed to an insert of “it”, so the ENG did indeed add the context of “he”. It brings about an interesting conversation though I’d say, because there’s the general “choosing” happening between them on the existential level in how Roxas understands it—but for Roxas, he also understands that this choice was also roughly orchestrated by Ansem the Wise/DiZ, which the narrative emphasizes too through his behavior against Nobodies. I don’t think Roxas himself ever made it about the Keyblade choosing Sora, but I definitely could be wrong there (I only remember this being a problem with Xion, but even then he didn’t blame her or anything). I think the ENG translator may have been thinking relative to the interaction of DiZ there for Roxas’ journey, but there is also the use of “わけ” (conclusion from reasoning, reason, cause) being used in Roxas’ sentence too, which makes it even more of “What’s the reason you were chosen?” feeling too, which I think in most examples of it’s uses, somewhat implies like a conclusion drawn from a person? Not 100% honestly, as I definitely see it really being an implicit “the reason” within whatever is being said, but I can see the insert of like a pronoun in some examples too.
Definitely added context by the ENG with “he”, but there’s several ways to understand it could be intentional in what was supposed to be underlying meaning.
The other stuff is funny, though. lol Especially the names. I’d be curious too what the JPN of the journal is, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still an error.
If it helps add to your conversation or pondering I will clarify that I got this info from a very old forum post.
I, sadly, didn’t take screenshots and I doubt the thread still exists but the post itself was after KH2FM but before Days was released into the world.
So the people of that forum were working on the idea that Roxas was asking about the keyblade because the consensus was that Roxas saw the source of his pain or fate as the keyblades fault.
There was also a interview that stated he left the Organization due to having dreams about Sora. Naturally, after Days such quotes are moot but that also played a role in the mindset.
You could argue it holds slight truth post-Days due to Xehanort’s speech about time travel and “etched” memories but that’s not concrete either. Just another way to look at it since you could see it as Xion motivating him subconsciously or Roxas having a subconscious desire to know “why you?” despite not remembering Xion at the time since both their fates were tied to Sora’s revival.
It’s not entirely implausible since Xehanort made it clear how potent even forgotten memories can be. To the point that he broke his own time travel rules just by stating it.
It’s also possible that Roxas is asking in a broad statement since the world itself seems to be vehemently against him existing which isn’t entirely wrong to believe.
After all, even if they develop hearts of their own a Nobody will eventually disappear. If they are destroyed prior they also become the original person.
For a nobody with such a strong sense of individualism it’s very much a big existential terror for Roxas to have and question.
Yeah I only saw this due to some recent reblogging, but it still holds up as an interesting topic!
I do lean a little more towards it as Roxas doing the existential, worldly questioning of it all as a reflection of the inevitable nature of his existence as a Nobody he has to accept. That shows in the other areas where puts this into question too, or rather where he affirms it solemnly like in DDD when talking to Sora.
The JPN scene in KH2 could very well have kept up that trend, but it’s interesting that the ENG does allow for a flexibility in specification there within the writing room. It’s nice to know at least the ENG translators (3 of em’) were at the Tokyo office like usual (BBS is the only real exception in this case), so who knows, could be intended context or just a minor slip up of understanding context.
Editor Notes: Yet another repost from an old side blog. Enjoy :3
Fun fact. Several parts of Kingdom Hearts 2 were mistranslated by the localization team. These translation errors include a hilarious misspelling of Braig seen above ^
These mistranslations also include cutscenes as seen in probably the most well known error:
This scene threw many for a loop back in the day myself included. However after all the theories were thrown and discussions made it turned out this was an error in localization.
You see here in the original Japanese sub titles:
What Roxas is actually saying here isn’t described by a pronoun such as “he” or “she” or anything gender specific.
Rather what Roxas is asking is more akin to “Why did it pick you?” or most likely “Why were you chosen?”
Roxas of course saying this in relation to the keyblade itself as it was the mystery of why Roxas himself could wield that plauged him at times as we seen in Days or scenes from KH2 of Roxas leaving the Organization.
Roxas was Sora’s nobody and so if he could understand why Sora was chosen then perhaps he could understand why he himself had been.
One last thing to point out isn’t so much a translation error as a difference in culture. There weren’t many but some questioned what Ansem the Wise meant when he “wrote report 0″ as seen here.
There’s no real error here but just a difference in culture. You see in Japan they dont start their numerical count at 1 but 0.
SOOOOO ironically this was one thing that was translated accurately but shouldn’t have been since the Ansem reports themselves in Japan start at 0 whereas in our versions of the game they begin at 1.
Basically Ansem the Wise, aka DiZ, was saying he only ever wrote KH1 Ansem’s Report #1 while Xehanort wrote the rest.
Do you have any mistranslations or tidbits you’d like to add? Whether it be KH2 or otherwise dont be shy. :D
Adding to this, one sort of mistranslation was having Goofy say His majesty banished Pete to another dimension–when in the Japanese, version they used a gender neutral pronoun there–since in Birth by Sleep, we learn it was Minnie who banished Pete, not Mickey:
And going along with what you said in the cultural differences thing, here we have Merlin talking about the “Zero District,” which normally we would never hear in English (since we start counting with one, whereas in Japan they start with zero).
And speaking of this “Zero District,” I think I agree with Blackdrazon, who wrote in his Kingdom Hearts II retrospective that this line shows that in earlier drafts of Kingdom Hearts II, the Radiant Garden stuff was probably supposed to take place in Traverse Town… because there are no districts in Radiant Garden: but there sure are in Traverse Town (in fact, I’m almost certain that Traverse Town’s First District is called the Zero District in the Japanese version, which is probably what Merlin is talking about here). This was probably from an earlier version of the script and accidentally stayed in there… Unless Merlin is still just magically going to Traverse Town, even though he shouldn’t be able to anymore, lore-wise. Merlin is a powerful wizard, where certain rules of the series don’t affect him for that reason, but ehh.
Well, for that Pete one though, Goofy specifically mentions Mickey by referring to him as “King” (王様), so that’s correct as “His Majesty”. So if it was retconned to be Minnie specifically then that’s less of a translation issue:
For the Roxas one, the “Why were you chosen?” is definitely more accurate as opposed to an insert of “it”, so the ENG did indeed add the context of “he”. It brings about an interesting conversation though I’d say, because there’s the general “choosing” happening between them on the existential level in how Roxas understands it—but for Roxas, he also understands that this choice was also roughly orchestrated by Ansem the Wise/DiZ, which the narrative emphasizes too through his behavior against Nobodies. I don’t think Roxas himself ever made it about the Keyblade choosing Sora, but I definitely could be wrong there (I only remember this being a problem with Xion, but even then he didn’t blame her or anything).
[Correction: he does make the Keyblade doing the choosing a point in Days]
I think the ENG translator may have been thinking relative to the interaction of DiZ there for Roxas’ journey, but there is also the use of “わけ” (conclusion from reasoning, reason, cause) being used in Roxas’ sentence too, which makes it even more of “What’s the reason you were chosen?” feeling too, which I think in most examples of it’s uses, somewhat implies like a conclusion drawn from a person? Not 100% honestly, as I definitely see it really being an implicit “the reason” within whatever is being said, but I can see the insert of like a pronoun in some examples too.
Definitely added context by the ENG with “he”, but there’s several ways to understand it could be intentional in what was supposed to be underlying meaning.
The other stuff is funny, though. lol Especially the names. I’d be curious too what the JPN of the journal is, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still an error.
Thinking about Sanji in relation to LuNami and I gotta say:
I don't think he'd seriously mind.
Not after Whole Cake Island, at least.
I can see how before that, especially if we're talking pre-timeskip, he'd have a real problem with it, considering Luffy unworthy of her and thinking that someone like Luffy would just end up hurting her (as unintentional as it could be).
But post-timeskip and after Whole Cake?
After Luffy took his kicks and hurtful words without lifting a finger because he knew Sanji didn't mean any of that?
After Luffy never gave up on him, waited for him, and included what he wanted to do about Big Mom and his "family" in consideration without a second thought?
After Luffy confusedly said that every characteristic of him that Judge despiced and considered a failure were all of his best qualities?
No, I don't think he'd mind if Nami "chose" Luffy.
Don't get me wrong, he'll still make a scene, crying and mourning the loss of one of his mellorimes to his idiotic captain, of all people.
But in the end, it all boils down to two things: Nami deserves only the best; and after Whole Cake Island, Sanji is sure that there's no best than Luffy.
I feel like that brings up an interesting question too: If they did have any thoughts, what do the other Strawhats think about Luffy and Nami’s relationship? Not even necessarily as romantic potential, but just in general.
I’m sure most would compose of how Nami’s secondary job is knocking sense into their captain. lol But beyond that, it’d be interesting. I feel like Robin, being the type of observant character she is, would say something pretty interesting. And of course Usopp, who witnessed Nami’s loyalty to Luffy in Wano. If we were to throw in the movies too, they all observed their bond during Strong World too. Would be interesting to see any of the characters in the series give an opinion about their bond.
People sure like to use the phrase “forcing a view” a lot, but often, I’ve seen this misused.
Someone isn’t forcing anything on you by stating what they believe to be true, with their own evidence, thorough research and reasoning, on their own post, on their own blog. How self-centered to think this. To make it all about you. This is like believing truth, or anything logically pushing towards it, is JUST some scary thing that is “forcing” you to think differently, binding you and “taking” away your ability to think, to compromise, to REFUTE it, or to accept it on your own terms. That….is something for you and another person to figure out. That’s a deeper rooted issue that isn’t my responsibility to get into.
Anyone can say something is true, whether it is or not, without having to coddle you and remind you of the fact that, yes, you can indeed think differently about it because you’re an autonomous human being. That the existence of different thought doesn’t simply cease to exist. It’s not my responsibility to remind you of your capability of thought when you’re insecure about what someone is saying or for what information exists that you don’t agree with—ESPECIALLY when in no way is it being said that someone can’t believe something different. Of course you can. This is always going to be true, whether the merit or value of what the belief is. Someone can be an asshole about it, or say something is true nonsensically, but if you can’t even tell them WHY and HOW, you’re not any better.
There are truths. They exist. There is reasoning and logic, good or bad, rational or irrational. There are things that may not be explicitly truths, but can be supported by evidence and closer reading—this can even open a pathway for understanding of different conclusions if applicable. There are also things that are false, that are not supported, that are intentionally misleading. There are just, straight up personal feelings and thoughts that you don’t CARE if it’s true or not.
Figuring out what is what—that is what discussion and debate yearns to do. Having this goal or having an argument and evidence for anything—this isn’t inherently also a campaign for forcing people to believe something.
Now, if someone was say, invading one or multiple people’s blogs, fanart, appreciation posts, etc.—can’t even get by with talking about something without another coming in and just essentially pining for attention like a child: “Oh yeah? Well it isn’t canon, so."—that’s closer to what "forcing” would look like.
And even then, that wouldn’t be effective or productive for anyone. “Believe what I’m saying on Tumblr or ELSE!”
Or else what? You’re going to go into someone’s brain an alter their thoughts and memories?
Yeah, “forcing”, and not at all closely resembling anything I’ve ever said.
If you believe someone is incorrect about something, but your way of “discussing” this is anything akin to “Yeah? Well well….you’re stupid! You wrote too much for me to read! And you’re wrong!”, and that’s ALL you have to say? That this is something you wrote out seriously thinking “yeah, this’ll show them”? That you somehow believe in your own importance so much that this passes as an intelligent response?
No.
Not how it works.
If you want to tell someone they’re wrong, then you address what they’re wrong about with what is then otherwise the supposed correct thing—even if you want to talk about how rude or irrational they were being. You need to still address what was actually said. “You’re wrong, trust me bro” isn’t going to cut it, nor will just attacking them with nonsensical, insulting comments. You don’t show you know what you’re talking about or that you CAN even refute what they say if you do this.
“Oh I COULD tell you why you’re wrong as I hold ALL the answers, but I won’t share because you’re stupid!"—You just look desperate, confused, and just like the person described above who would be attempting to force their nonsense onto other people.
And you’re just looking to be blocked and stew in your own idiotic bubble.
Ok so we all know about the polaroid right?
Gwen keeps it in her drum set, risks seeing her dad to get it. Yada yada, you get the gist. HOWEVER, I was looking at ITSV clips and noticed that Gwen was looking at the same photo on her phone at the end of the movie.
In this photo the lighting and textures are completely different, and most importantly, it was taken on a digital camera. Now unless Gwen happened to have a Polaroid camera on her, she could not have possibly taken the physical photo in Miles' universe.
Which means Gwen went OUT OF HER WAY to convert the photo she took on her phone into a Polaroid just for the sole purpose of having another one with her
What’s interesting too is the box the photo sits on (it can be quickly missed, it’s right when she pulls off her costume from it at the very beginning)—I think it says “Happy Birthday <3 Mom” ?
Which would be so sweet and sad too, that she has this keepsake from her mother, and she keeps the picture of Miles along with to cherish him too, because in a way he’s kind of “gone” too.
