Cosmo Grams
Cosmo Grams
Cosmo Grams
For those that don't know geodetic equivalents was developed by a man named
Edward Johndro. He spent many years testing his system in a variety of ways. He wrote two books on it. The main one is called THE
EARTH IN THE HEAVENS.
Johndro proposed that the entire band or range of the zodiacal signs could stretch around the entire Earth in 30 degree segments
starting with Aries of course. And he lined up 0 Aries with longitudes starting at 0 East and West: Greenwich, England. Thus, from 0
Aries at Greenwich it then goes East to 30 degrees East. From 30 East to 60 East would then be Taurus. 60 East to 90 East would
then be Gemini. 90 East to 120 East would then be Cancer. From 120 East to 150 East would be Leo, and from 150 East to 180 East/
West would be Virgo. From 0 West to 30 West would be Pisces, 30 West to 60 West would be Aquarius, 60 to 90 West would be
Capricorn, 90 West to 120 West would be Sagittarius, 120 West to 150 Scorpio, and from 150 West to 180 West/East would be Libra.
Each of these zodiacal zones also contain the natural crosses of signs that exist within them. the four natural cardinal points. So, for
example, the Aries zone also contains Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. Each natural zodiacal zone has these natural crosses of the signs
within them. So, for example, the generation that had Neptune in Libra would naturally connect not only within the Libra zone itself,
but also within the Aries zone. This is why it's not so surprising that those who have Neptune in Libra, that generation, had a high
degree of interest and focus on the mythologies of Rome and Greece: it correlates to collective consciousness of those times in the
past.
So for those who wish to keep going on this thread I would recommend that you get a world map and draw in the natural zodiacal
zones and, within them, write out the 3 other signs that will exist within them.
Right now I will stop and wait to see if you all understand the basic structure we are working with, and to see if any of you have
questions. Each of these zodiacal zones also contain the natural crosses of signs that exist within them. the four natural cardinal
points. So, for example, the Aries zone also contains Libra, Cancer, and Capricorn. Each natural zodiacal zone has these natural
crosses of the signs within them. So, for example, the generation that had Neptune in Libra would naturally connect not only within
the Libra zone itself, but also within the Aries zone. This is why it's not so surprising that those who have Neptune in Libra, that
generation, had a high degree of interest and focus on the mythologies of Rome and Greece: it correlates to collective consciousness
of those times in the past
Can you explain a bit more why one latitude will contain with in it the natural crosses of that sign?
Specifically, is is divided up within the 30 degrees of the latitude? For example 60-90 west is Gemini. Are each of the mutable signs
associated with 1/4th of the latitue? Or is not divided up at all?Rad, taking your example of the generation with Neptune in Libra:
Rome and Greece are within the Aries Zone on the map, so when checking a specific function like Neptune in Libra you check not only
the natal zone, but also the zones of the other three directions of the cross? And does that mean you are factoring in the archetypes
of the zones according to the aspect? Meaning, do you need to factor in an opposition aspect when bringing in Rome and Greece as a
focus in that generation's collective conscious/unconscious? And alternately a square aspect to the Cancer/Capricorn zones?So our
next step in understanding the application of geodetic equivalents is now being able to link the symbols in any given birth chart to the
natural zodiacal zones on the Earth. In order to do this we will need to understand two basic principles. The first principle is to
remember that the natural houses in the zodiac correlate to the foundation of any chart. So, for example, if a person has a planet or
planets in the 3rd House this will naturally correlate to the Gemini Zone. And if in that same chart a person had planets in either
Sagittarius, Virgo, or Pisces this would also then correlate to that zone. The second principle are the actual signs that various symbols
in the birth chart correlate too. So in our the very same planets that correlate to the Gemini zone will also correlate to their own
zodiacal zones. And those zones, of course will all have their own natural crosses/ signs within them.
For those that have taken the time to write down these zodiacal zones on a world map, and the natural crosses within them, you can
now take your own natal chart with all the various symbols, and that should include all the planetary nodes, you can now but on that
world map your own birth chart symbols that correlate to these zodiacal zones with their sub zones within them that are symbolized
in the natural crosses within each of the natural zodiacal zones.
I am attaching the birth chart of President Obama so that as questions arise we can refer to this together in order to understand the
two principles above.
God Bless, RadObama's natal Pluto is in the 7th House in Virgo. The 7th House is the natural Libra House. So on the Geodetic map I
place Pluto into the Libra Zone (as well as Uranus, N.Node). Then look for planets/nodes in the tropical signs of Aries, Cancer,
Capricorn in order to fill out the Libra Zone (but not planets/nodes in the 1st, 4th, or 10th Houses?). In this case we have Juno in
Aries and Saturn in Capricorn, etcetera....
Libra Zone: Pluto (natural), Uranus (natural), N.Node (natural), Juno (sub), Saturn (sub), etcetera etcetera....
Then I would also place Libra planets into this zone as well. If a planet were in Libra in Obama's chart would it be given the same
"emphasis" as his Pluto in the 7th House? Or his Juno/Saturn as "Sub-Zone" planets?
Or to ask in another way:
Since we also place his Pluto into the Virgo Zone (as well as the Pisces, Gemini, and Sagittarius Zones as a "sub-planet"), does the
Natural House of the planet (7th House/Libra Zone) mean something different than the Sign of that same planet (Virgo/Virgo Zone) in
terms of geodetic interpretation?
i Rad,
Are the symbols correctly placed on the geodetic world map for Obama? (attached)
Thanks.To clarify: Obama has Pluto in Virgo in the 7th. So, on the map above, we would place Pluto in the Libra, Aries, Cap and
Cancer zones as well as in the Virgo Pisces Sag and Gemini zones? Thank you.Pluto in his 7th goes into the natural Libra Zone.
By sign it goes into the Virgo Zone. Through the natural crosses of the signs it then goes into the Sag, Gemini, and
Pisces zones as well. All of those zones have Virgo within them due to the natural crosses. Not the Aries, Cap, or Cancer
zones because none of these has Virgo as part of their natural crosses. I'm going to contemplate with why this is so- ie why
houses apply (ie third house= gemini zone), and yet the natural crossses do not apply for houses. If I have any further questions I
will ask.
I have a very general question, what kind of observations and correlations were
made to determine these geodetic equivalents in the first place?
he geodetic map contains:
-- the SIGNS of the Planets and Planetary Nodes
-- the NATURAL CROSSES that apply to the Planets and Planetary Nodes
-- the HOUSES of the Planets and Planetary Nodes (natural crosses do not apply
here)
Is it correct to include the SUN?
Rad's response: No, because the Sun correlates to the current life. So if we are
focusing on the prior lifetimes and their dynamics that have lead to the current life
this would not be included.
Here's a BLANK MAP of the world geodetic zones for future use:
Right-click on the image. Choose "Copy Image."
Open new Word document and press Ctrl + V to paste.
Print.
although he did teach it in a few places as a workshop that he titled: The Soul's Journey Through Time. It is the material
in that workshop that is being presented here.
This is a work that he worked on for almost his entire career that he was constantly trying to perfect: he did not like
'loose ends'. And there are loose ends in what is being taught here. Some simple examples: he never reached a
conclusion relative to the application of all the planetary nodes in these geodetic charts. The main issue here was the
issue of the outer planetary nodes of Saturn, Uranus, Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto versus the personal planets and their
nodes: Venus, Mars, the Moon, and Mercury. Obviously the outer planetary nodes correlate to great periods of time that
all Souls share whereas the personal planets and their nodes are just that: personal. He came to a place where he felt
that when we see in a birth chart the personal planets is aspect to the outer planetary nodes then those nodes should
be included in THAT person's geodetic map.
He did not use at all the N.Nodes of any of the planets at all because those all correlate to the future evolution of any
given Soul although he mused that they could correlate to the future projection of the Soul to places on the Earth in
lives to come relative to where it has been, and is now.
As the geodetic system stands as of now, what he did develop, there is a very high degree of accuracy. Simply look at
the chart of Obama and that should be very, very clear. When you add just two prior lives to that, Abraham Lincoln and
Charles Lindbergh , it becomes even more clear.
***************************
"Will we be going into depth utilizing these principles and charts?"
*******************************
Not sure what 'in depth' would mean to you, so please let me know about what you mean.
*****************************
"And is Pluto's House or the S.Node of Pluto, or the S.Node of the Moon the first place to look when beginning? Is there a practical
sequence like the Pluto signature? Or does it depend on each individual chart"
************************************
The use of these geodetic maps is to provide another vehicle in order to understand the prior life backgrounds of any
Soul that all contribute to the life being currently lived. If we have a book to read most of us would agree that it's
necessary to read the totality of that book in order to understand what is being presented in that book. If I start reading
chapter five first, and then continue on to the end, I will not totally understand that book. In the same way the geodetic
maps provide, in it's own way, a total understanding to the entire book of any given Soul. So, it's not a matter of where
to look at first when utilizing these charts. The geodetic charts must be seen and understood as a whole.
These charts should not be seen or understood to represent the entire history of any given Soul. They should be seen as
specific prior lives that any given Soul is drawing upon relative to it's current life evolutionary and karmic intentions
and needs.
Ok, so now we have arrived at a place where we can all have some experimental fun. Below you will see a list of the Astrological
Ages, their sub-ages, which is further divided by 90 year segments within each that are defined by their own signs. All of you have
made your own geodetic maps of your own birth charts. In order to place your natal planets within the appropriate Ages and their
sub-ages, and the 90 year segments within them it will be necessary to employ another astrological method to do so. That method is
called Cosmo Grams that was developed by an astrologer whose name I have forgot. I think his name was Ebertein but I can't quite
remember. In his system the 360 zodiac is reduced to 90 degrees wherein all the Mutable, Cardinal, and Fixed signs are stacked up
on each other thus creating this 90 degree wheel. I am attaching this wheel so you can all print it out, and also attaching a dial that
you can also print out that goes in the middle of the 90 degree wheel.
So for right now I would like you to print out this wheel, the dial, and the example chart that demonstrates how to place the planets
within the wheel by using the dial. When we have all done this I will then present how to use them.
God Bless, Rad
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Leo
10,810 - 10,720
Virgo
10,720 - 10,630
Libra
10,630 - 10,540
Scorpio
10,540 - 10,450
Sagittarius
10,450 - 10,360
Capricorn
10,360 - 10,270
Aquarius
10,270 - 10,180
Pisces
10,180 - 10,090
Aries
10,090 - 10,000
Taurus
10,000 - 9,910
Gemini
9,910 - 9,820
Cancer
Aquarius
9,730 - 9,640
Pisces
9,640 - 9,550
Aries
9,550 - 9,460
Taurus
9,460 - 9,370
Gemini
9,370 - 9,280
Cancer
9,280 - 9,190
Leo
9,190 - 9,100
Virgo
9,100 - 9,010
Libra
9,010 - 8,920
Scorpio
8,920 - 8,830
Sagittarius
8,830 - 8,740
Capricorn
Cancer
8,650 - 8,560
Leo
8,560 - 8,470
Virgo
8,470 - 8,380
Libra
8,380 - 8,290
Scorpio
8,290 - 8,200
Sagittarius
8,200 - 8,110
Capricorn
8,110 - 8,020
Aquarius
8,020 - 7,930
Pisces
7,930 - 7,840
Aries
7,840 - 7,750
Taurus
7,750 - 7,660
Gemini
Capricorn
7,570 - 7,480
Aquarius
7,480 - 7,390
Pisces
7,390 - 7,300
Aries
7,300 - 7,210
Taurus
7,210 - 7,120
Gemini
7,120 - 7,030
Cancer
7,030 - 6,940
Leo
6,940 - 6,850
Virgo
6,850 - 6,760
Libra
6,760 - 6,670
Scorpio
6,670 - 6,580
Sagittarius
Gemini
6,490 - 6,400
Cancer
6,400 - 6,310
Leo
6,310 - 6,220
Virgo
6,220 - 6,130
Libra
6,130 - 6,040
Scorpio
6,040 - 5,950
Sagittarius
5,950 - 5,860
Capricorn
5,860 - 5,770
Aquarius
5,770 - 5,680
Pisces
5,680 - 5,590
Aries
5,590 - 5,500
Taurus
Sagittarius
5,410 - 5,320
Capricorn
5,320 - 5,230
Aquarius
5,230 - 5,140
Pisces
5,140 - 5,050
Aries
5,050 - 4,960
Taurus
4,960 - 4,870
Gemini
4,870 - 4,780
Cancer
4,780 - 4,690
Leo
4,690 - 4,600
Virgo
4,600 - 4,510
Libra
4,510 - 4,420
Scorpio
Taurus
4,330 - 4,240
Gemini
4,240 - 4,150
Cancer
4,150 - 4,060
Leo
4,060 - 3,970
Virgo
3,970 - 3,880
Libra
3,880 - 3,790
Scorpio
3,790 - 3,700
Sagittarius
3,700 - 3,610
Capricorn
3,610 - 3,520
Aquarius
3,520 - 3,430
Pisces
3,430 - 3,340
Aries
Scorpio
3,250 - 3,160
Sagittarius
3,160 - 3,070
Capricorn
3,070 - 2,980
Aquarius
2,980 - 2,890
Pisces
2,890 - 2,800
Aries
2,800 - 2,710
Taurus
2,710 - 2,620
Gemini
2,620 - 2,530
Cancer
2,530 - 2,440
Leo
2,440 - 2,350
Virgo
2,350 - 2,260
Libra
Aries
2,170 - 2,080
Taurus
2,080 - 1,990
Gemini
1,990 - 1,900
Cancer
1,900 - 1,810
Leo
1,810 - 1,720
Virgo
1,720 - 1,630
Libra
1,630 - 1,540
Scorpio
1,340 - 1,450
Sagittarius
1,450 - 1,360
Capricorn
1,360 - 1,270
Aquarius
1,270 - 1,180
Pisces
Libra
1,090 - 1,000
1,000 - 910
Scorpio
Sagittarius
910 - 820
Capricorn
820 - 730
Aquarius
730 - 640
Pisces
640 - 550
Aries
550 - 460
Taurus
460 - 370
Gemini
370 - 280
Cancer
280 - 190
Leo
190 - 100
Virgo
Pisces
10BC - 80 AD
Aries
80 - 170
Taurus
170 - 260
Gemini
260 - 350
Cancer
350 - 440
Leo
440 - 530
Virgo
530 - 620
Libra
620 - 710
Scorpio
710 - 800
Sagittarius
800 - 890
Capricorn
890 - 980
Aquarius
Virgo
1070 - 1160
Libra
1160 - 1250
Scorpio
1250 - 13 40
Sagittarius
1340 - 1430
Capricorn
1430 - 1520
Aquarius
1520 - 1610
Pisces
1610 - 1700
Aries
1700 - 1790
Taurus
1790 - 1880
Gemini
1880 - 1970
Cancer
1970 - 2060
LeoThe term Cosmobiology as most frequently used in the English language, refers to the school of astrology founded
by Reinhold Ebertin. Cosmobiology expanded into medical astrology, Dr. Ebertin being a physician.
hanks Linda, I happened to be checking myself as you were. Here's a few more interesting facts:
The 90 degree dial methods were developed by a German astrologer/surveyor named Alfred Witte, based on ancient techniques and
concepts regarding midpoints. Witte was an enemy of the Third Reich whose research/books were banned. His ideas were then
resurrected by Reinhold Ebertin (without the Trans-Neptunians), a German astrologer/physician, who put an extensive amount of
work into Medical Astrology correlations.
Both Witte (midpoints/dial paradigm) and Johndro (Geodetic Equivalents) committed suicide.
Witte's book that inspired Ebertin was titled Rulebook of Planetary Pictures.
k, let's move forwards. You now have the 90 degree dial. The first thing to do is to stack all the Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable signs on
top of one another. So starting at 0 degrees put the sign Aries at the very bottom of the rung as illustrated in the example
cosmogram that I attached before. Then add Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn which should now be on the top rung. Do exactly the same
for the Fixed and Mutable signs. The Fixed signs are placed at the 30 degree mark, and the Mutable ones at the 60 degree mark.
The next step is to place your natal planets in the cosmogram. For example, if you have Mars at 10 degrees of Aries you would place
that exactly at the 10 degree Aries mark in the cosmogram: just like in the example cosmogram provided. So go ahead and place all
of your planets in your cosmogram. You will now have a complete cosmogram of your natal planets. Do not include your natal Sun.
You can include the S.Nodes of your Venus, Mercury, Mars, and your Moon.
Before we move on let me know if any of you have questions of these steps.
God Bless, RadI have been following along and just getting to filling out the map and the dial. For the fixed and mutable planets I
assume we just treat the 30 degree mark on the dial for the fixed planets the same as the 0 degree point for cardinal. Meaning we
start at 30 degrees for 1 degree of Leo, and so on for all the fixed planets. Then with the mutable planets, we start at 60, but count
1-30 for the mutable planet placements.
I hope this makes sense. So just checking I have it right.
In the cosmogram:
- all the Aries, Cancer, Libra & Cardinal planets will be in the 0 - 30 degree section
at their actual degree of the sign they're in.
- all the Taurua, Leo, Scorpio & Aquarius planets will be in the 30 - 60 degree
section but with 30 degrees equalling 0 degree (of the sign they're in) up to 60
degrees equalling 30 degrees (of the sign they're in).
e.g. Saturn at 21 Leo would be at 51 degrees on the dial, Jupiter at 11 Aquarius
would be 41 degrees on the dial
- all the Gemini, Virgo, Sag & Pisces planets will be in the 60 - 90 degree section
but with 60 degrees equalling 0 degrees (of the sign they're in) up to 90 degrees
equalling 30 degrees (of the sign they're in)
e.g. Saturn at 12 Gemini would be at 72 degree on the dial, Jupiter at 2 Sag would
be at 62 degrees on the dial and Chiron at 21 Picses would be at 81 degrees on
the dial.
If that is all correct then I'm ready for the next step.
thanks very much,
Upasika
So we have now arrived at the final steps in using geodetic equivalents on the world map combined with the development of the
cosmograms. So all of you should now placed your natal planets and the S.Nodes of Mercury, Moon, Venus, and Mars in your personal
cosmogram.
The next step is then to take the cosmo dial and place it at the center of the cosmogram. In the example cosmogram that I attached
earlier you will notice that Mars is at 10 degrees of Aries. You will also notice that the arrow at 0 degrees of the cosmo dial is pointed
at that Mars. On either side of the 0 degrees you will notice increments of 5 degrees each on either side of that 0 degree marker. And
the opposite end of the 0 degrees is the 45 degree marker. To develop your personal cosmogram you will want to note the planets
that connect together at the various five degree segments on either side of the 0 degree marker. So in our example cosmogram you
will notice that Jupiter is at the 15 degree marker on the left side of the 0 degree marker, and that Venus is also at the 15 degree
marker on the right side of the 0 degree marker that is always the reference point in developing these cosmograms.
You will also notice that Saturn is at the 45 degree marker relative to that 0 degree reference point. In combination this Saturn,
Jupiter, and Venus now create a cosmogram with Mars at the top. I have attached an example of what this cosmogram would look
like. If there were other planets that connected at the other segments points on either side of the 0 degree reference point they
would also be included in creating the total cosmogram. In other words if there was a planet at the 25 degree marker on both the left
and right sides of the 0 degree reference point they would then also be part of the cosmogram.
The next step in our example cosmogram is to place the signs on it. So since Mars in Aries is at the top of our cosmogram we mark
that as Aries at the top. Then referring the the Ages and their sub-ages we go the Aries age and note the 90 year segment in time for
that Mars. Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we
note the 90 year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in
Capricorn as part of the cosmogram.
This example is then used to develop all of your personal cosmograms where you place the 0 degree marker, reference point, at each
of your planets or nodes in your personal cosmogram. And when you notice other planets that connect to it via the segments on
either side of that marker, as in our example, you then start creating a cosmogram for them.
When you are done developing all of your cosmograms then refer back to the Ages and the sub-ages with the 90 year segments in
time to note the time frames for all the planets, and the relevant nodes.
When all of you understand how to do this then we will move on to what it all may mean. If you have questions of course on how to
do this please ask.
God Bless, and good luck ! RadHi Rad, is there an orb for these? So if the Venus from you example was at 18 and the Jupiter at 11
both relative to Mars, would they apply?
hanks for that question. I forgot to mention the orb thing. This is open to investigation or further research but I have used two degree
orbs in my own work. So in the example that is being used with Mars that would mean if Jupiter were at the 17 degree mark on the
left side, and Venus were at 13 degree mark on the right side, then they would qualify for being tied into the cosmogram.
God Bless, RadI just joined the message board Saturday and am so appreciative to have discovered this topic almost immediately.
Thank you Rad for your service and education here, and thanks to all of you for making this such a vibrant forum as I've begun to
explore in other threads.
I have questions about planets which are conjunct or which are square and thus aligned in the Ebertin chart (e.g. Pluto 4 Libra,
Saturn 4 Cancer). Does one create a separate cosmogram for each planet? If so, is the conjunct/aligned planet then listed in the top
position and calibrated according to the Age of the sign of the planet whose cosmogram it is? (i.e., using the e.g. above, for Pluto's
cosmogram, Pluto's timeframe would be Libra Sub-Age/Libra period, and Saturn's would be Libra Sub-Age/Cancer period; for Saturn's
cosmogram, Saturn's timeframe would be Cancer Age/Cancer period, and Pluto's would be Cancer Age/Libra period; then all the
branches of the two cosmograms would have the same planets, but calibrated to Cancer Age periods for Saturn cosmogram and Libra
Sub-Age periods for Pluto cosmogram).
Secondly, when conjunct or aligned planets occur in another planet's cosmogram, should they be listed on the same branch even if
they are in different signs?
Thank you, looking forward to learning more.
God bless,Just to clarify: there must be planets/nodes on both sides of the reference planet's dial at equal markers in order to be tied
into the cosmogram (Venus 15 degrees on one side, Jupiter 15 degrees on the other)? We wouldn't tie Venus at 15 degrees on one
side into the cosmogram of Mars (0 degrees) if the opposite 15 degree marker is empty because we're talking about midpoints. Is
this correct?
Thanks
Hi Rad,
In my SN Venus cosmogram, Mercury (on the one side) aspects 2 planets (on the
other side)
of the marker. Do I include both, as shown in the draft below?
No, it's not done this way. Each planet or S.Node is used, one by one, at the top of
the pointer in the cosmo dial to develop their own cosmo grams. Thus, your
S.Node of Venus is at the top in the example you have sent. You would not be
including your Mercury in Cap in this cosmo gram or your Venus in Cap or your
S.Node of Mercury in Cap. Each of these would have their own cosmo gram. When
such points are conjunct within the natal birth chart you can also put all of them at
the top of your cosmo gram and then create the cosmo grams that other planets
are linked too, i.e. your S.Node, Uranus in Leo, and S.Node of Mars in Sagittarius.
In the cosmo gram you shared you also have the wrong 90 year segment for
Mercury, Venus, and S.Node of Mercury in Cap. That 90 year segment is 7,660 to
7,570. You have these listed for the Aquarius 90 year segment: 7,570 to 7,480.
God Bless, Rad
Then we look for the Libra 90 year segment within that Age because Jupiter is in Libra at part of the cosmogram. Then we note the 90
year segment for Gemini because Venus is in Gemini as part of that cosmogram. And then Capricorn because Saturn is in Capricorn
as part of the cosmogram.
I want to clarify.
Mars is in Aries, and since we are creating a cosmogram for that Mars, all of the subages will be listed as Aries subages? IE Mars
would refer to the Aries subage of Aries, Venus the Gemini subage of Aries, and so on... ?
Thank you.
I want to offer a helpful tool I've been using with this practice. On solar fire, when you enlarge the chart you are looking at, click on
"reports" on the right, and then "midpoint tree". It will give you all the mid points from the point of view of any planet.
So if you are constructing any particular cosmogram you can check the work you are doing with the wheel by referring to the
calculations. If your using a 2 degree orb, you'd have to fix the settings on the right side.
Rad, I notice that we are not working with any of the ages before the Leo age. Why is that? Would it also be applicable, for example,
to construct a Libra cosmogram for the actual age of Libra (which would have been a LONG time ago- as opposed to the Libra subage
of the Aries age)? Thank you.
Ari Mosheust want to clarify .. if a planet at the top of a cosmogram is in a sign that isn't listed as an Age in the list of Ages &
subAges you posted eg Sagittarius, Capricorn, then we use its subage of the Age it occurs in as it's "Age". For a planet in Cap at the
top of the cosmogram that would be Cap subage of the Cancer Age, for a planet in Sag at the top it would be the Sag subage of the
Gemini Age (5,500 - 4,420 BC).
Then for planets on branches of the cosmogram we look for the period they refer
to in that subage eg. for a planet in Sag at the top, a planet on a branch in say Leo
would be 4,780 - 4,690 BC.
Is this corect? (looking now at Linda's seems that's the way she has done it, so
guess I'm asking the same question)
Thanks Upasika
I feel clear as well Rad, but don't mind if we linger so that everyone is up to speed.Without knowing your birth chart I can't know if
the cosmo grams you have created are correct. Can you send me the degrees of the planets and nodes you have in Capricorn ? I
could do a quick check then to make sure you have got it right.
unfold.
Thank you.
Ari Moshe
Quick questions:
1. We're not using asteroids in our cosmograms?
2. If there were another planet in your example... Jupiter is in Libra at the
opposite point in the cosmogram from Venus in Gemini. If we also added Mercury
in Virgo at the same spot as the Venus in Gemini, does that Mercury count as a
separate lifetime because it will clearly have a separate time period even though it
is at the same point as Venus in the cosmogram?
Mars/Aries
Jupiter/Libra
Venus/Gemini
Mercury/Virgo
Saturn/Aquarius
3. What if Mercury were in Gemini conjunct Venus? They would both have the
same sub-sub Age, and therefore the same time period. Would Mercury still be a
separate lifetime from Venus even though they are conjunct and operative during
the same time frame? (This may relate to Ari's first question)
*********************************
God Bless, RadQuick questions:
Venus/Gemini
Mercury/Virgo
Saturn/Aquarius
3. "What if Mercury were in Gemini conjunct Venus? They would both have the
same sub-sub Age, and therefore the same time period. Would Mercury still be a
separate lifetime from Venus even though they are conjunct and operative during
the same time frame? (This may relate to Ari's first question)"
***********************************************
If there is enough degree of separation between the two then it may be a
situation where you could also create cosmograms for each relative to
the other planets within the cosmogram. Typically when there are two or
more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will
correlate to more than one life in that time.
***************************************************
God Bless, Rad
So then in the example you provided, the Mars in Aries cosmogram, would those 4 time periods also have occurred within the Libra,
Cancer and Cap zone, as well as the zone indicated by the house placement of that natal Mars? Thank you."
****************************
Yes, if and only if those other planets also had their own cosmograms that correlated to those zones. So if that Saturn
in Cap has it's own cosmogram with Saturn on the top that then connects to other planets to form a cosmogram then it
would then correlate to that Capricorn zone. Etc.
God Bless, RadReferring to the example below, I have a question: In the Capricorn tally, in the time period between 7,570 - 7,660,
various Capricorn archetypes recur a total of 16 times. Is there some way I can narrow this down?
i Linda,
First decrease your orb .... to two degrees. When JWG taught this stuff he always
said use one degree. In my own work I have used two. So try that to see if that
narrows it down some. Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or
Mars. Looking at what you sent that seems to be one of the reasons that you have
so many in that year because of the links to the S.Nodes of those planets. So if
you take them out see what you have then.
The other thing to remember when this sort of duplication comes up is that it CAN
mean a situation where the Soul has had early life endings and immediately
desired to rebirth: a Soul can come back as early as seven days after a physical
death.
God Bless, Rad
p.s. Are you still interested in that Planetary Node thread ?
1. In the case of a planet whose cosmogram includes only itself, i.e. there are no "branches" because it is not at the Ebertin
midpoints of any other planets or planetary nodes -- is this still considered a referent, but just for one lifetime? For example, my
Uranus in Libra is alone in this way (Uranian irony noted!). Would this correlate to a single lifetime in the Libra period of the Libra
Sub-Age?
2. With regard to the location of past lives, I didn't track clearly your answer to Ari's question. My question also feels hard to
articulate but here goes: Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the
Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead
planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position? So for instance, for my cosmogram for South Node in Cancer in the 12th house, would
all lifetimes indicated by the planets in that cosmogram have taken place in the Cancer, Aries, Libra, Capricorn, and/or Pisces zones?
3. If my satement at the end of question two is accurate, is there any way of narrowing the places further? Such as, is there a
"home zone" among those five possibilities that all those lifetimes might be found to occur in? And within the zones, might the
degree of the signs provide more specific locational info?
Thank you again!
God bless,
JasonHi Rad,
"Typically when there are two or more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will correlate to more than one life
in that time."
Question: so, does that mean if there is only one planet at any one point, that that indicates only one life, as opposed to 2 planets
correlating to more than one life (meaning 2 lives, or 2 and possibly more?) at that time? Or is what you have said not that literal?
"Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or Mars."
Question: Just to clarify - as I understand it then, you would not use the south nodes of Venus, Mercury, Mars as the apex/top of the
cosmogram? But you would use them in the cosmogram?
Question: What is the differentiation between nodes and planets in reference to the cosmogram? I would think that a south node
reference (or whatever planet you are looking at) would indicate a prior life reference link is this south node indicating a life that
came before, and by looking to the ruling planet for its cosmogram which could be in another region or time we would find the link?
What is the link then? Would this suggest an immediate prior life? What other information could we surmise from finding a south node
of some planet as a part (not the top/apex position) of the cosmogram?
Question:
What exactly does it mean when you have a planet at the top of cosmogram and a planet at the bottom? Is there any added
significance - for this position - and from cosmograms that do not have this setup?
If there is simply a planet at a top position and a planet at the bottom position (just 2 positions) is this a cosmogram?
Is there a way to tell how fast one might reincarnate? It is easy to surmise that the Uranus/Pluto conjunction indicates a quick
turnaround, and that such aspects as Saturn/Pluto indicate a lengthier pause between lives. In this regard, is there more specific info
that we can gain from studying these cosmograms?
Lastly, in general do the planets correlate to the Ages, Subages, etc.? For example, Pluto is a 248 year transit multiplied, thats
close to an Age. Uranus is an 84 year transit, that is close to a 90 year period. What about Saturn, etc?
I hope my questions are clear...
Thank you,
Blessings
Rose
I have two questions.
1. In the case of a planet whose cosmogram includes only itself, i.e. there are no "branches" because it is not at the Ebertin
midpoints of any other planets or planetary nodes -- is this still considered a referent, but just for one lifetime? For example, my
Uranus in Libra is alone in this way (Uranian irony noted!). Would this correlate to a single lifetime in the Libra period of the Libra
Sub-Age?"
*****************************************
The cosmograms, according to JWG, correlate to specific prior lifetimes that the Soul is actively drawing upon relative to
the current EA purposes of any given Soul. With your Uranus not being part of an actual cosmogram this would correlate
to one of two phenomena. One is that your Soul is drawing upon the collective experiences of a generation of Souls, all
with Uranus in Libra, who have had direct experiences in those areas of the world that, in totality, affect your own
individual EA purposes for your current life. The other possibility is one wherein you did have prior lives in those places
yet are not directly linked to the current EA purposes of your life other than the generational sub-group who all have
this Uranus in Libra. This entire sub-group thus acts in their own individual ways relative to the evolutionary needs and
intentions for the entire planet relative to drawing upon the collective imprint from those times being brought forwards
into this time.
************************************************
2. " With regard to the location of past lives, I didn't track clearly your answer to Ari's question. My question also feels hard to
articulate but here goes: Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's cosmogram occur within the
Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead
planet's sign, cross-signs, or house position? "
****************************************************
Yes, IF those other planets within the cosmogram also have their own cosmograms linked to the their respective
astrological geodetic zones. The house position of any given planet does of course correlate with a geodetic astrological
zone, like your Uranus in Libra, yet unless such planets also have their own cosmogram they must be treated in the way
as explained above relative to your Uranus in Libra.
*********************************************************
"So for instance, for my cosmogram for South Node in Cancer in the 12th house, would all lifetimes indicated by the planets in that
cosmogram have taken place in the Cancer, Aries, Libra, Capricorn, and/or Pisces zones?"
************************************************************
Yes ..............
***************************************************************
3."If my satement at the end of question two is accurate, is there any way of narrowing the places further? Such as, is there a "home
zone" among those five possibilities that all those lifetimes might be found to occur in? And within the zones, might the degree of the
signs provide more specific locational info? "
*********************************************************************
This is something that JWG tried to determine for some time. It came down to somehow being able to determine the
latitude of places relative to the geodetic zones. In combination this would then lead to something like a cross hairs on
the world maps for those specific prior lifetimes. The last part of this total geodetic technique that he tested for nearly
30 years remained one of those 'loose ends' that he continued to work with to the very end of his career.
*************************************************************************
God Bless, Rad"Typically when there are two or more planets at the same point in time within a cosmogram this will correlate to more
than one life in that time."
Question: so, does that mean if there is only one planet at any one point, that that indicates only one life, as opposed to 2 planets
correlating to more than one life (meaning 2 lives, or 2 and possibly more?) at that time? Or is what you have said not that literal?
***************************************
It could be two or more. This same thing can be seen when a specific 90 year segment of time within a cosmogram is
repeated more than once, as in Linda's case.
********************************************
"Also, JWG never used the S.Nodes of Venus, Mercury, or Mars."
Question: Just to clarify - as I understand it then, you would not use the south nodes of Venus, Mercury, Mars as the apex/top of the
cosmogram? But you would use them in the cosmogram?
******************************************************
You are free to use them or not. In my own work I have found them to be very useful and accurate relative to prior
lifetimes that the Soul is drawing upon relative to the current life EA purposes. So if you do use them they are used for
the apex of a cosmogram, as well as within the trees of a cosmogram.
********************************************************
Question: What is the differentiation between nodes and planets in reference to the cosmogram? I would think that a south node
reference (or whatever planet you are looking at) would indicate a prior life reference link is this south node indicating a life that
came before, and by looking to the ruling planet for its cosmogram which could be in another region or time we would find the link?
What is the link then? Would this suggest an immediate prior life? What other information could we surmise from finding a south node
of some planet as a part (not the top/apex position) of the cosmogram?
****************************************************************
All of the astrological symbols used in these cosmograms, planets and nodes, correlate to prior lifetimes. All prior
Rad,
Just making sure I understand you properly.
From the example above, the Venus/Cap cosmogram has been duplicated and transferred to its Capricorn cross-zones: Libra - Aries Cancer. From there, ONLY those planets that are ALREADY in that geodetic zone that also appear in the Venus/Cap cosmogram are
valid (ticked).
Question: Looking at the LIBRA geodetic zone and specifically to Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo, that zone now contains all of these
periods:
190 - 280
Pluto/Leo
190 - 280
Pluto/Leo
190 - 280
Uranus/Leo
6,940 - 7,030
Pluto/Leo
6,940 - 7,030
Uranus/Leo
Just not sure how to interpret all of these dates (time periods). From the above, I gather 3 lifetimes were lived between 190 - 280
BC (perhaps early deaths) correlating to the Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo archetypes, and 2 lifetimes lived between 6,940 - 7,030 BC
correlating to the Pluto/Leo and Uranus/Leo archetypes.
Am I on the right track? If I am indeed on the right track, I will have to update the world map to include all the cross-zone planets/
periods.No, this is not correct. I see your confusion because of how I answered Jason's question. I misread his question:
" Is it accurate to say that, just as all lifetimes described in a particular planet's
cosmogram occur within the Age/Sub-Age of that planet's sign, that all lifetimes in
that planet's cosmogram also occur within the geodetic zone of the lead planet's
sign, cross-signs, or house position?"
The answer to this should have been no. I am really glad you caught this Linda.
Many time when I come to our message board it is quite late at night after I have
done much work. Sometimes I miss things like this. In any case the answer is no
to that question. Sorry to all who got confused by this.
God Bless, Rad
First, please see my answer to Linda concerning my misreading of one of your last questions. Sorry for my mistake. Second, there is
no further steps in these geodetic equivalents.
God Bless, RadOne thing that JWG postulated and taught about these various cosmograms is that whatever planets are involved in
the cosmograms, each one, correlated to the core archetypes in the consciousness of the Soul that were the bottom lines in each of
the lives symbolized by those cosmograms. So in the original example that I posted it would mean those four planets were the active
archetypes in the life of that cosmogram.
God Bless, RadWhat do you mean by "life of that cosmogram"? Does a single cosmogram, and the planets therein, have a specific
function of wholeness? What I mean is: does the lead planet have any sort of baseline meaning, other than Age/Sub-Age, whereby
the other planets in that cosmogram are then related to the lead planet? I've been wondering about this for a while but think I
missed the explanation somehow.
Since the basis for these cosmograms is the lead planet being located at the
midpoint to other planets which come later in time...In our example, Mars is the
lead planet in the cosmogram. It is at the midpoint of Jupiter & Venus. Would
Jupiter & Venus, because of this and because they come AFTER Mars in terms of
generic time (Mars = 2,260-2,170BC / Venus = 2,080-1,990BC / Jupiter =
1,720-1,630BC) be interpreted in relation to Mars? As though something from the
archetype and life experiences concentrated in that Mars has been carried over
into the Jupiter & Venus lives...something that must also correlate to the
evolutionary signature of the current life, and yet specific to Mars? Or does all
interpretation still arise from the natal chart?
I'm also still confused about the purpose of the crosses within each Geodetic Zone.
And why we correlated the initial planets in our natal chart, by house specifically,
to these zones when later the lead planets of a cosmogram are located specifically
to the zone of their sign? What does it mean in terms of Geodetic equivalents,
say, if my Mars in Aries is located in the 3rd House in my natal chart? At first we
correlated it to all the different zones (Gemini for 3rd House, Aries for sign, and
then Libra, Cancer, Capricorn because of the cross within Aries), but then after the
cosmograms have been made that Mars gets locked, so to speak, in its own Aries
zone. And then if Mars is linked in another planet's cosmogram it is also located in
that planet's zone of sign.
I know I must be missing something right in front of me, but could you explain
again why we did all the different zone correlations in the beginning before the
cosmograms were made?
Much appreciated,
taf
I have two more questions I have encountered in another chart I am working on.
1. When one side of a cosmogram branch is a planet which does not have a cosmogram of its own, what happens to the planet on
the other side of the branch?
For example:
Uranus
|
SN ---------- Saturn
For the purpose of this example, let us say that the Saturn does not have a cosmogram of its own, but the South Node does. Then
for this Uranus cosmogram, I understand that the Saturn will not be considered a lifetime or lifetimes referent either, but what about
the South Node on the other side? Is it still used even though its branchmate is not?
2. What happens when none of the planets in a planets cosmogram have cosmograms of their own? So to use another example:
Pluto
|
Moon ------------------ Saturn
Lets say that the Moon and Saturn are the only branches on this Pluto cosmogram. However, both Moon and Saturn do not have
cosmograms of their own. I understand that this means that in this cosmogram neither the Moon nor Saturn refer to specific periods
or zones in which lifetimes occurred. But does Pluto still represent a time period and geographic zones in which specific incarnations
occurred, or is it now treated as a planet without a cosmogram since its cosmogram branches dont count?
as a planet without a cosmogram, would it then also not be counted on the cosmograms of other planets?
Thanks again, God bless,
Jason
Hi Jason,
What do you mean by "life of that cosmogram"? Does a single cosmogram, and the planets therein, have a specific function of
wholeness? What I mean is: does the lead planet have any sort of baseline meaning, other than Age/Sub-Age, whereby the other
planets in that cosmogram are then related to the lead planet? I've been wondering about this for a while but think I missed the
explanation somehow.
Since the basis for these cosmograms is the lead planet being located at the midpoint to other planets which come later in time...In
our example, Mars is the lead planet in the cosmogram. It is at the midpoint of Jupiter & Venus. Would Jupiter & Venus, because of
this and because they come AFTER Mars in terms of generic time (Mars = 2,260-2,170BC / Venus = 2,080-1,990BC / Jupiter =
1,720-1,630BC) be interpreted in relation to Mars? As though something from the archetype and life experiences concentrated in
that Mars has been carried over into the Jupiter & Venus lives...something that must also correlate to the evolutionary signature of
the current life, and yet specific to Mars? Or does all interpretation still arise from the natal chart?
*************************************************
Excellent question and one I should have addressed yesterday. Sorry for being remiss. In our example cosmogram Mars
in Aries in the lead planet because it is at the top of the cosmogram. For the life that that Mars connects too it should be
treated as the 'lead' planet for that life, the core archetype or bottom line upon which the other planets in that
cosmogram contribute as core archetypes for that life. With Saturn at the opposite point of Mars this should be seen as
correlative to an opposition to that Mars in that life, and the Jupiter and Venus as squares to both Mars and Saturn. In
total all four of those planets thus correlate to the core archetypes of that life where Mars is the lead: like an ascendant.
So this would be the life symbolized as between 2,260 to 2,170.
The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Venus: 2,080 to 1,990. Now we will make Venus the lead
planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Jupiter at the bottom, and Mars and Saturn to each side.
The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Jupiter: 1,720 to 1,630. Now we will make Jupiter the
lead planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Venus at the bottom, and Mars and Saturn to either side.
The next 90 year segment within that cosmogram connects to Saturn: 1,450 to 1,360. Now we will make Saturn the lead
planet for that life, as if it is on top. This then puts Mars at the bottom, and the Jupiter and Venus to either side.
You can see in this way of understanding the cosmograms that the archetypes involved came full circle through the
progression of the lives as symbolized in our Mars cosmogram linked with the Aries geodetic astrological zone, and the
natural cross of the other signs within it.
This is the exact procedure to follow for all of the cosmograms.
********************************************
I'm also still confused about the purpose of the crosses within each Geodetic Zone. And why we correlated the initial planets in our
natal chart, by house specifically, to these zones when later the lead planets of a cosmogram are located specifically to the zone of
their sign? What does it mean in terms of Geodetic equivalents, say, if my Mars in Aries is located in the 3rd House in my natal
chart? At first we correlated it to all the different zones (Gemini for 3rd House, Aries for sign, and then Libra, Cancer, Capricorn
because of the cross within Aries), but then after the cosmograms have been made that Mars gets locked, so to speak, in its own
Aries zone. And then if Mars is linked in another planet's cosmogram it is also located in that planet's zone of sign.
*************************************************
It means exactly what you have answered yourself here in terms of the correct geodetic procedures to use.
***********************************************
I know I must be missing something right in front of me, but could you explain again why we did all the different zone correlations in
the beginning before the cosmograms were made?
************************************************************
It's a combination of methods relative to geodetic equivalents who intention is to demonstrate the prior lifetimes upon
which the Soul, in total, is drawing upon relative to it's evolutionary intentions. </
******************************
God Bless, Rad