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I used (4) 10,000 lbs variable spring supports due to the column's growth. I had to
consider all different conditions for the reboiler's weight (empty, operating, full of water).
Luckily, the reboiler manufacturer gave us these weights so it ensured we picked the
right springs.
What do you suggest to control those large forces/moments when the reboiler is empty
with spring unlocked?
We have seen these options:
1. Use a longer travel (i.e. softer) spring to reduce the variability, or maybe even a
constant spring to eliminate the variability. Doing so, will leave us with only the
differential from the missing liquid weight to contend with?
2. Failing that, we would have to look at some sort of specialized start up instructions
where we may have to leave one of the springs blocked in until the reboiler has been
filled to its operating weight. However, we would do everything possible to avoid this.
Operations might remember to do this the first time the unit comes up if we are standing
next to them while they are doing it. At the next shutdown, the travel stop will probably
never get put back in again and the nozzle will see the loads anyway.
3. Calculate springs on average load of the reboiler operating & Empty weight so that
column &reboiler nozzle loads will be optimum & will be approximately same in case of
empty & operating.
4. We can consider only operating load of the reboiler, but in this case nozzle loads in
operating case is minimum but in empty case is exceeds in huge amount. In this case,
how to reduce these loads if it is exceeding allowable?
In cases like this, I have specified the spring cans be fabricated with permanent upward
travel stops so that the springs don't transfer excessive forces into the equipment nozzles
when the reboiler is empty.
You will have to look closely at what kind of movements your springs need to take. The
stop may need to be gapped to allow some upward operating travel before locking up.
You are correct with your point 2 that you don't want to have to rely on an operator to
install and remove travel stops in the field.
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Can we lock the spring during start up to prevent the effect of spring when reboiler is
empty?
It depends on where you are in the design. If possible, beef up the reboiler nozzles with
repads to handle the extra spring load under the empty condition.
Otherwise, you're going to want to look at using a longer travel (i.e. softer) spring to
reduce the variability, or maybe even a constant spring to eliminate the variability. Doing
so will leave you with only the differential from the missing liquid weight to contend with.
Failing that, you would have to look at some sort of specialized start up instructions
where you may, as you noted, have to leave one of the springs blocked in until the
reboiler has been filled to its operating weight. However, I would do everything possible
to avoid this. Operations might remember to do this the first time the unit comes up if

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you are standing next to them while they are doing it. At the next shutdown, the travel
stop will probably never get put back in again and the nozzle will see the loads anyway.
How do you commission the plat in this case? I am facing the same problem, but the
Nozzles are ok for both cases (WNC and OPE+H). The difference in weight is about 100
KN @200C The constant springs allow a variation of 20% of the load.
Would you be able to remove the pins for a 100% variation? - or lines must be flooded?
Thanks for your opinions...
Always, always put in nozzle flexibilities to reduce nozzle loads!
But make sure you define all six degrees of freedom. I made the mistake once of missing
the axial degrees of freedom. It showed the Reboiler nozzles passing with flying colors!
But upon further review it was failing miserably...oops. They decided that the
temperature differentials I was using were unreasonable in real operating scenarios. They
figure the column and reboiler could never operate at too great of a differential
temperature, since it is a once through exchanger...the tube side will heat the shell side,
if the shell side lost steam.
Not sure if I buy that, but whatever, they signed off on it!
And like Edward said, you always have the option of adding repads to your nozzles,
especially if it is new construction.
Threeouts, thanks for your comments. I agreed.Although I like to model nozzle
flexibilities only in extreme cases.
I will like to know how do you remove the constant spring pins on the empty case if the
operating load is 5 times greater? Knowing that we only got 20% to play with.
What has been done in the past? Specialized start ups? If this is the case, what about
EXP stresses during start up, if the spring could be acting as a rigid?
here are many alternate way out couple of discussed below.
1 ) Firstly i Would recommend to go for rigid support rather than springs by maintaining
proper elevation of reboiler with respect to column, so that differential thermal expansion
of reboiler process out nozzle & column process inlet nozzle should be minimum. This can
be done by adjusting reboiler lug.
2) if at all it is not possible with rigid support then go for spring in that case you can
select your spring
a) on average load of your reboiler operating & Empty weight so that column & reboiler
nozzle loads will be optimum & will be approximately same in case of empty & operating
only sign changes.
b) on operating load of reboiler, but in this case nozzle loads in operating case is
minimum but in empty case is exceeds in huge amount. as it happens with "JR Park "
now question about how to reduce these loads if it is exceeding allowable.
3) one way to pass your nozzle loads with WRC -297/nozzle pro/ansys
4) just add down stopper at your lug locations such that these supports should be act
only at WNC case & not operating case.
this you can do with your spring also by adjusting lock nut

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I am doing stress analysis of a column-vertical reboiler system(reboiler supported from
platform).As suggested by my colleagues I need to input operating weight of reboiler in
the CAESAR II model.I have the following questions in this regard:
Why is it so important to consider operating weight of reboiler in analysis?
As discussed with colleagues in my company they could cite the following two reasons:
(a)For spring design purpose if in case it is required to support the reboiler lugs due to
lift-up.
(b)For proper calculation of seismic forces on the the exchanger which is weight
dependent and which might affect nozzle loads in seismic cases.
Are these the only factors that demand the consideration of weight into anlysis?
If so should the same principle be extended to any vertical exhanger regardless of
whether it is a reboiler or not?
I would really appreciate your valuable comment on this matter.
Both of those would be good reasons for accounting for the weight of a reboiler in your
Caesar model.
In general, we don't mess with trying to accurately model the weights of equipment if we
are including representations of them in our models. In general, it is of greater interest to
use to get reasonable models of the temperature profiles so we can account for the
thermal movements of nozzle connections and any shell attachments we are using to
support our pipe.

I am involved in piping stress analysis for vertical reboiler connected to column. Reboiler
is nozzle is directly connected to column through 800mm straight spool.
I have done analysis based on operating condition ( with fluid weight in reboiler ) and
system is safe with selected springs ( Reboiler is supported by four nos of springs).
Reboiler and its springs are supported from separate structure from grade.
Problem start when I unlocked the springs of reboiler during empty conditions. Very huge
amounts of loads are being transferred to column and reboiler nozzles. Reason for that
is , during reboiler empty condition spring exerts upward forces on reboiler - column
nozzles.
I tried several options but reboiler-column configuration is safe either in empty or
operating conditions but could not be safe in both conditions with springs unlocked.
May I have your expert opinion to come out this problem.

Try a much higher spring rate and see how you get on. The purpose of the spring is
probably for for permitting differential expansion, not for weight change
compensation.
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I have already used higher spring rate to minimise the difference in vertical movement of
reboiler during operating and empty condition.
You are right that spring is for permitting differential expansion, but during spring unlock
condition system should be safe in empty as well as operating conditions with same
spring design.

What happens to seismic response when you do this. Or wind loading. Wouldn't
you tend to bottom out the springs. Seems to me by mounting the reboiler
elastically, you're making the wrong thing flexible
And so the compromise between thermal and other loads.... If the constants work
out... then if your in a seismic zone rattle stops could be designed to restrain
vertical seismic forces (use a DLF of 2.0) Rattle stops / boxed guides are a solid
choice for thermally active piping in active seismic zones.
Best Regards,
John C. Luf
i have done the analysis in past for such cases ,
try to mount your reboiler on constant springs as you cant change layout as it is
straight fit connection ,
design the springs for higher load ( you can allow deflection in sustained case upto
1 mm,)
with regards
shailendra
Hi Shailendra,
Have you analysed for both reboiler empty and filled cases ?
Already high load used and also constant spring loads tried.
if we consider upward growth of column from T.L.,reboiler has to move in the
same manner with same distance ,
to reduce the nozzle loads on column and reboiler ,if layout is stiff then there is
no option apart from what spring mounting reboiler ,
if anybody has any other ideas please let me know
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Seismic and wind conditions to be checked but before that system should be safe in
Static analysis, if it is not, then it doesn't have any sense to do seismic and wind
analysis.
Regards,
Hitesh
Thermal as well as all other loads must be dealt with however usually I find
working on thermal first to be the most productive perhaps for you in your part of
the world you tie down the system so it passes wind/seismic and then release it a bit
at a time whether you slice an apple one way or another its sliced at the end so
machts nichts!
Best Regards,
John C. Luf
For what it's worth, I have seen this type of vertical reboiler arrangement mounted
directly to the distilation column. Trunnion type supporting on the reboiler are
supported on braced cantilever supports back to the column, The trunnions are as
close as possible to the distilation/reboiler close coupled nozzles. I can't remember
if springs were involved, but I can imagine that this arrangement allows upward
growth of the column, and a downward growth of the reboiler, whereby the nozzle
becomes more-or-less a "fixed point".
Richard B

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