Learning To Help Through Humble Inquiry and Implications For Management Research, Practice, and Education: An Interview With Edgar H. Schein

姝 Academy of Management Learning & Education, 2011, Vol. 10, No. 1, 131–147.
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Learning to Help Through

Humble Inquiry and Implications
for Management Research,
Practice, and Education:
An Interview With Edgar H. Schein
FRANK J. LAMBRECHTS
University of Hasselt
RENÉ BOUWEN
University of Leuven
STYN GRIETEN
Hogeschool-Universiteit Brussel
JOLIEN P. HUYBRECHTS
University of Hasselt
EDGAR H. SCHEIN
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
For more than 50 years, Edgar H. Schein, the Sloan Fellows Professor of Management
Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Sloan School of Management, has
creatively shaped management and organizational scholarship and practice. He is the author
of 15 books, including Process Consultation Revisited, Organizational Culture and
Leadership, Career Anchors, Organizational Psychology, Career Dynamics, and Helping, as
well as numerous articles in academic and professional journals. Novelty, clarity, and
relevance have always been the guiding principles of his work. In this interview, Schein
moves on from his key formative learning experiences to focusing on humble inquiry as the
key to building and maintaining the helping relationship. Comprised of both a helper’s
attitude and behavior, humble inquiry embodies “accessing one’s ignorance” and becoming
open to what the helper and the helped may learn from each other through observation,
genuine empathic questioning, careful listening, and suspension of judgment. Schein not
only identifies several challenges within management research, practice, and education, but
also offers provocative recommendations to those involved.
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INTRODUCTION The occasion of the interview was his receiving the

Academy’s Lifetime Achievement Award for
We interviewed Edgar H. Schein at the Academy of
Scholar–Practitioner, the publication of his latest
Management Meeting 2009 in Chicago, Illinois.
book Helping (Schein, 2009a), which synthesizes
the process consultation approach (Schein, 1969),
We would like to thank Edgar Schein for the interview and the and the publication of a Special Issue of the Jour-
close collaboration in making the revisions leading to this article. nal of Applied Behavioral Science celebrating both
We also would like to thank AMLE Associate Editor Professor his 80th birthday and his 50 years of contributing to
Myrtle Bell for encouraging us to interview Edgar Schein with a
the field (Coghlan & Shani, 2009).
focus on management learning and education. We thank the three
anonymous reviewers for their comments and assistance in de- Our primary focus is to learn from Schein’s main
veloping this manuscript. We especially acknowledge Professor contributions to organizational scholarship and
Felix Corthouts for his continuous support. practice in order to become better scholar–practi-
131
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132 Academy of Management Learning & Education March
tioners, whose essential task is to generate new there. I had come from a very traditional PhD pro-
knowledge and to help human systems to improve gram with experimental psychologists who were
(Schein, 2009b). In Schein’s vision, these scholar– working in a laboratory setting. Soon after my ar-
practitioners know how to collaborate with practi- rival at MIT, which was a more applied area,
tioners in a joint inquiry and learning process aim- McGregor sensed that maybe there was a need for
ing at formulating joint problem definitions and me to learn some new things about what really
developing new and meaningful knowledge to the went on in groups. So he “invited” me to go to a
benefit of both academic and practitioner commu- T-group and learn what that was all about. It was
nities (see also Bradbury & Lichtenstein, 2000; a totally new and a very powerful experience for
Coghlan & Shani, 2009). me that forever changed my view of the manage-
Schein’s central focus has always been to help ment field. Instead of the leader of the group laying
client systems improve themselves by taking a out the learning goals, the trainer of the group
clinical inquiry stance. By focusing on the needs of said: “We are here to learn together” and then kept
the client (instead of the needs of the researcher) silent. Not only was this a new experience for me
and by participating in the client’s issues and in- but it forced me to examine the question, “Are there
quiry process as a helper or partner (Schein, 1995), other ways of doing things than what I had been
he has been able to develop actionable knowledge used to?” As I observed more and more of the group
that is having a high impact on both practice and struggling and learning, I saw that what the
academia (Coutu, 2002; Schein, 2006; Quick & trainer was really doing was a kind of facilitation,
Gavin, 2000). In his recent book Helping (Schein, helping, stimulating but never telling—always
2009a), Schein introduces the notion of “humble asking, observing, encouraging. So this idea of a
inquiry” as the key process activity in building and leader as a helper rather than as a director goes
maintaining the helping relationship. Humble in- way back to those 1957 T-groups and learning how
quiry, which encompasses both an attitude and a the group trainer in the T-group worked. I became
behavior of the helper, embodies “accessing your very involved with National Training Laboratories
ignorance” and becoming open to what may be (NTL), and began to run T-groups in the various
learned from each other in the actual situation NTL management programs (Schein & Bennis,
through observing, genuine open empathic ques- 1965). It was then that I began to learn something
tioning, careful listening, self-inquiry, not judging about managers, management, and management
but suspending judgment, and shifting helping education.
roles as necessary (Schein, 1996, 1999, 2009a). Later, when I learned how to be a consultant, the
Based on his broad experience as a researcher, same issue came up: I would first try to give advice
consultant, and teacher, Schein offers concrete and found that it didn’t work very well. It really
ideas on what could be new in management re- worked better if I acted more like the T-group
search, practice, and education. The epilogue fur- trainer, observing what was going on and then
ther draws out the implications for our field, and encouraging people to talk about their own obser-
positions Schein’s words in the current debate vations. I happened to have clients, particularly
among scholars on the crisis and future viability of Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), who were
management research and education (e.g., Bennis very, very self-determined people. The last thing
& O’Toole, 2005; Detrick, 2002; Mintzberg, 2005; they wanted was advice. They wanted help, and so
Mintzberg & Gosling, 2002; Pfeffer & Fong, 2002, I had to learn how to be helpful in that context.
2004; Starkey, Hatchuel, & Tempest, 2004, 2009; Star- When I was first invited to work with Digital in
key & Tempest, 2009). 1965, my explicit mandate was “to help the top
management team, called the operations commit-
tee, improve their communication and to make
them more effective as a team.” Kenneth Olsen,
Key Learning Moments: Experiences of Real Help cofounder of DEC in 1957, invited me just to sit with
To begin, we would like to hear about your per- the group and help them in whatever way I could.
sonal learning history. What are the key learning He was a very interesting client because most cli-
experiences that led up to your current view on ents wouldn’t just invite you in to join the group
helping? and just see what you can do.
What I observed was very unruly behavior. The
The critical learning experience about helping managers constantly interrupted each other; there
was when I was invited by Doug McGregor, in 1957, was high emotionality in that they often shouted at
to go to Bethel to experience the T-group and learn each other; there was a lot of mutual blaming go-
about the group dynamics workshops going on ing on; “negative” information about each other
2011 Lambrechts, Bouwen, Grieten, Huybrechts, and Schein 133
was shared; and other ineffective interpersonal be-

havior went on. You will recognize this story be- [T]heir real problem was that they never
cause I tell about it in almost all of my books and got their information very well
some articles (e.g., Schein, 1990, 2003). To get back documented and shared. Somebody
to my story, I tried to make them into a better group would start an idea and get
by my mental model of what an effective group interrupted.—Schein
should be. People shouldn’t interrupt each other;
they should listen to each other and so on. And
every time I tried to point out that “When you What was the difference? The difference was
interrupt somebody, you cut off information” they that I was finally getting into what the client
would say “Oh, we are so sorry, we understand wanted. I couldn’t be helpful until I gave up my
you, you are absolutely right” but . . . nothing own notion of what the management team as a
changed. They would apologize, and then continue group should be according to my own assump-
to do exactly what they were doing until I finally tions. Only when I began to focus on what the
kind of gave up and asked myself “Why don’t they group was actually trying to do, could I be helpful.
change?” They seemed to recognize that “this is I began to intervene in the “real process” of the
not the best way to be” but they still continued to group, that is, its task process of creating a future
do it. for their company. They didn’t want to be a good
group; they wanted to make good decisions. So
until I got into their world by observing what they
What I observed was very unruly were trying to do, I did not really understand how
behavior.—Schein to help. That was a huge lesson to me—you have to
figure out what the client really wants to do in-
stead of assuming that you see something wrong
So I began to take a more humble inquiry ap- and have to fix it. What I see traditional consult-
proach and realized that they were young, aca- ants do is that they hear what the client says is
demic, passionate, electrical engineers fighting wrong and then immediately put all their diagnos-
for the future of their company. I began to under- tic machinery into motion. But I realized that tak-
ing that first presentation of the problem may not
stand that it was the passion and the energy and
be what the client really needs or wants. First, you
the academic background that made them inter-
have to engage in a certain amount of humble
act like they did. Professors interrupt each other
inquiry to make sure that you end up working on
all the time; it is part of the academic game to
the right problem. Every therapist knows this. The
fight for your ideas. I realized that “as long as
client comes in with some statement of his or her
they are so passionate, they are not going to pay
problem but after a few hours you discover that the
attention to some simple rule that I might impose
problem is something entirely different.
on them.”
So the origins of helping were many. Another
I also noticed that their real problem was that influence was the concept of experiential learning
they never got their information very well docu- that became popular. At MIT, we had the first book
mented and shared. Somebody would start an idea written on organizational psychology that took an
and get interrupted. So, one day, I decided just to experiential learning approach to management
go up to the flip chart and if someone started an teaching (Kolb, Rubin, & McIntyre, 1971). This book
idea, I would start to write it down. If another was a set of experiential learning exercises that
member interrupted the person giving the idea, student groups could administer to themselves.
instead of saying, “you have interrupted; you have But until I wrote this current book on helping
cut off information” with my new insight, I would (Schein, 2009a), we took the word “helping” for
say “I didn’t get your whole idea here, could you granted as if we understood exactly what helping
give me the rest of it.” That, of course, stopped the is. But if some person said, “What exactly do you
process because I was at the board, I was writing mean by being helpful?” you couldn’t find good
things down, and it was in their interest. Pretty definitions anywhere in print. We assume that ev-
soon they were using the ideas on the board, say- erybody knows what helping means and we often
ing, “yes, we want to do more of this, less of that, confuse efforts to be helpful with actual help de-
and so on.” Ideas got elaborated. And at the end of livered. Of course, when you deconstruct “help-
those kinds of meetings they would say, “You know ing,” it is really a very complicated concept, hence,
Ed, now you were really helping.” a whole book about it.
THE INCREASING IMPORTANCE OF HUMBLE ferent cultures have different rules about the ap-
INQUIRY: MULTICULTURAL GROUPS AND propriate way to interact with each other and with
DIALOGUE authority figures. So when multicultural groups
get together, the big question is “how will they find
The core working mechanism you mention is hum-
a modus operandi?”
ble inquiry. What really works in humble inquiry?
First of all, we need to show managers that
What is its essence?
culture operates through the day-to-day rules of
The essence of it is to create a situation, a relation- interaction; through face work; through all the
ship, where the other person will trust you enough ideas that Erving Goffman talks about. From the
to tell you what is really on his or her mind. In field of group dynamics, we know that those
simple situations that may not be a problem. When rules are different across cultures in two critical
somebody asks you for directions, you don’t neces- areas. That is, specifically, in the management of
sarily have to worry about that. But the example I authority and in the management of intimacy.
use in the book on helping (Schein, 2009a) is very The rules of how to behave up and down are very
meaningful because even when somebody asks different across cultures. Hofstede (1980) might
you for directions you have a choice of how to help. call this “power distance” but power distance is
Outside my house one day, a woman pulled up just an abstraction. What I really think is impor-
and asked how to get to Massachusetts Avenue. tant, inspired by Erving Goffman, are the rules of
When I asked her where she was trying to go she deference and demeanor. How should the boss
said, “I’m trying to go to Boston,” and she was in present himself—proper look, proper dress, uni-
effect already on the road to Boston. I could have form, bearing—and how should the subordinate
sent her in the wrong direction if I had literally be properly deferent— eye contact or no eye con-
answered her question. When someone, a friend, tact, interrupting the boss is okay or is not done,
asks you for some advice, what should you do? orders are to be obeyed or challenged if they
seem wrong, and so on. These rules are obvi-
Humble inquiry would initially be a moment or two
ously very different in different cultures.
of silence. Maybe he has something more to say.
What might be a powerful approach when a
And if silence does not produce anything, you
multicultural team is supposed to get to work is to
could say, “Tell me a little more,” “What is going
start with a dialogue format in a cultural island
on?” “What is prompting you to ask this right
setting. Sitting around the “campfire,” each person
now?” Only when you feel the person has finally
just tells to the campfire, “In my world, if I disagree
laid out what is really bothering him can you try to
with the boss, this is the kind of thing I do.” As a
proceed. I use the example of kids coming to their
leader you then say, “Leave it there, and now, the
parents with specific questions like “can you help
next person, tell what you do.” As they each tell
me with my homework?” Often, they really want to
their stories, they will begin to have some level of
talk about something else, but they don’t know
mutual understanding. “You know, I never tell my
how to ask except through some specific, concrete
boss anything and this guy, he tells his boss ev-
question. Humble inquiry gives them a chance to erything; we clearly have a different outlook on
tell what may really be on their minds. things.” That’s the kind of information they need to
Since the sixties you have been a pioneer in con- have in order to identify how they might begin to
ceptualizing change as being constructed in the work together. Then, the second question would be
interaction (Schein, 1961). Reality is not just a given “How do you know when you can really trust some-
but is constructed in the interaction between peo- body?”, “What do you mean by a good intimate
ple. Change is a reconstruction, a redefinition or a relationship?” Again have everybody talk in order
reframing. Symbolic interactionism was a major to the campfire and slowly build up mutual un-
inspiration for this idea. We were wondering how derstanding around those questions. What is
you would look upon this idea now. original about this is to say, “Don’t discuss your
culture generally, don’t try to cover everything,
Symbolic interactionism is, right now, my main just focus on a couple of things that are most
interest. I want to bring Erving Goffman back into likely to be very important in getting any work
people’s thinking (Goffman, 1967). This is of the done.” Authority— cross-status communication—
highest importance because I now realize that if and intimacy— building trusting relationships—
the world goes global, as it is going to, we are always surfaced in the group dynamics movement
going to have more and more groups and organi- as the two critical issues that every group has to
zations that are multicultural. Each culture has its solve. I assume that these will be the biggest prob-
own rules of interaction; its own social order. Dif- lems in a multicultural group.
I have only begun to write about that but that’s tening, toward building a collective conscious-
the direction I’d like to go; to focus on “What is a ness. The T-group was really working on interper-
cultural island? How do we manage the dialogue sonal dynamics, feedback, and emotions. The two
process? Will we need more and more cultural are almost not overlapping in my mind. For pur-
islands?” And so on. If a surgical team has to get to poses of building a multicultural unit, you need
work and have the doctor, the nurse, and the an- dialogue; you do not need T-groups. In fact, T-
esthesiologist really become a team, the only way groups would be horrible because the kind of feed-
they can do that is to go off into a cultural island, back that might be appropriate in one culture
go through some team training and team work, would be totally offensive in another.
and then come back and do the job. I doubt that
they can do it “on the job” because the culture of That’s true. For example, if you give feedback in
nursing and the culture of the doctors is so differ- the Japanese culture, the receiver loses a lot of
ent. So when I say “multicultural,” I don’t just mean face.
different in nationality, I mean different in occupa- Exactly, so it has got to be the dialogue style. This
tion, function, expertise, any area. style makes the process culturally neutral and al-
lows different thoughts to merge slowly. You have
the challenge now with your students. You have a
“TALKING TO THE CAMPFIRE”:
group of students who come from different coun-
SUSPENSION IS THE KEY
tries. What’s the right way to get them going? They
You stress “talking to the campfire.” What is the all speak a little bit of English, so you have to
working principle behind that? When we compare assume that there is at least a minimum of some
it with the T-group, where feedback is always very language. The best way to get them going is to
personal and directed, we see a difference. Is “talk- give them a task of the sort that I just described. Sit
ing to the campfire” related to a kind of mechanism in a circle, pretend there is a campfire there, and
that makes mutual understanding and reframing talk about how each of you relate to your bosses.
possible? Maybe even more concretely, say, “What happens
if you see the boss doing something that is wrong,
In an article that I wrote for Organizational Dy-
that is going to hurt the project, what do you do?”
namics (Schein, 1993b), I tried to compare the T-
They go in order of each person telling about it.
group with dialogue. The T-group focused on how
When you are completely finished, then maybe
to deal with the emotions of self-presentation, and
they talk to each other about it. But use that as a
therefore, how to give and receive “feedback.” Di-
breaking-in device. What do you think about that?
alogue, especially how William Isaacs structures
Could that work or could there be a better way?
it (Isaacs, 1993), is not about emotions and feed-
back. It is essentially about the thought process of It could work. The idea of the campfire is intrigu-
a group. If I’m to really understand your thought ing. When people sit around the campfire, like the
process, I need to develop a different listening Boy Scouts do, a kind of neutral transition zone is
style and I need to get acquainted with my own created. Everything is possible over there as long
filters. That’s difficult to do even now in this con- as it is going on and things can be done in a
versation. If I really focus on you, I get preoccupied sequence. What exactly makes this method so
with all sorts of other things besides what you strong?
actually said. So the power of dialogue is that, by
“talking to the campfire,” I not only abstract my- The key working mechanism is not to worry about
self, but I’m also not trying to impress you. I am eye contact, a specific relationship. Our whole hu-
really trying just to get my thought out and lay it man resources idea in the West has distorted the
out there. If I do it that way and don’t maintain eye relational process and acted as if the way we do it
contact, maybe you have a better chance of hear- is the only way. And yet, think of all the cultures in
ing what I am actually saying because I’m not which looking at the boss is disrespectful. “You
directing it at anyone. When I’m finished, I hand must not look the boss in the eye, you must keep
you the “talking stick” and say “it is your turn.” your head down,” be deferent. So where do we get
Then I just go into a listening mode. I may close my the idea that the best relationship is the one where
eyes, I don’t have to look at you because you’re not I really look at you and say we are going to talk
looking at me: You are looking at the “campfire.” face-to-face intimately? These theories would say
So I found the dialogue method profoundly dif- “that’s the only good way to communicate. Pay
ferent from the T-groups. It is a totally different attention to body language, look how he is sitting,
process: It is oriented toward thought, toward lis- is he mentally conflicted or not, etc.” That is all
nonsense in a cross-cultural context. It may be very of how what they say and what they think leads to
relevant in some very specific situation, but if faulty communication. This is very valuable but to
you’re dealing cross-culturally, I think we have to get people to confront some of what they think and
find a much more neutral way to converse. The actually to make it explicit requires the elaborate
campfire dialogue setting creates the cultural is- kinds of training that Argyris requires of his cli-
land even if it is done at the place of work. Have ents. Chris is always fighting an uphill battle. He
you ever been in a dialogue group where some- wants things to be more explicit, but often this
body set it up under those rules? goes against the rule-driven nature of communica-
tion. Once a group has learned to do what Chris
Not exactly in that format but we have been work- suggests, it is very effective, but it is a lot of up-
ing with multiactor stakeholder projects where front investment to get to that point.
groups of actors with very different perspectives
meet. There the rule is also that people speak up You are saying that not everything can be made
but don’t respond to each other directly. They just explicit. Open communication as such is not the
take what the other actor is saying for a given and absolute truth. Communication is always contex-
try to understand what is being said. tual and relational?
That’s the core rule of dialogue. To add the camp- Exactly, and very much rule-driven in a culture.
fire as a metaphor just makes it a little easier to do Every culture has its own rules about what you can
that. The key is to suspend instead of respond. If be open about and in what setting this is allowed.
you say something and I violently disagree with it, For example, the Japanese have the rule that when
I have to make a choice. Do I blurt out my disagree- you go out and get drunk together you can be more
ment or do I suspend it and say to myself: “Why do open. I asked a colleague of mine, who really un-
I think so differently from what he just said?”, derstands Japan, “Can you pretend to be drunk if
“What’s going on in me that makes me feel so you have an alcohol problem or allergy?” She said,
differently?” That begins then to build what Isaacs “No, you can’t pretend, people would realize that
(Isaacs, 1993) would call “group consciousness” you are sober and then it would have a different
rather than a debate about which of us is right. meaning.” She was arguing that if you can’t drink,
Suspension is a central idea in dialogue. Let ev- you can’t do certain kinds of jobs in Japanese or-
erybody’s thoughts just sit there. Don’t debate it, ganizations; that actually getting drunk is essen-
don’t argue with it. Add your own thoughts; maybe tial for some kinds of work.
your own thoughts are different. It goes way back
to older cultures where the tribal councils worked LEADERSHIP AS ACTS OF HUMILITY
that way. The elders sat around the campfire, and
they each spoke their opinion. They never argued You have been speaking of dialogue and being
with each other, they just kept speaking, and pretty reflective in a cultural island in order to learn from
soon it was clear where they agreed and where each other. The problem often stated is this: “How
they didn’t agree. The senior person then could can you bring what is learned to the daily work
say, “Well, this is what we have decided.” But it context?” Don’t you think this transfer problem is
was merely decided by just laying opinions and an important pitfall? People say things such as,
ideas out there without discussion, debate, or “Well, there I can talk to the campfire but the next
disagreement. day when I’m back in the routines, I behave totally
differently or I haven’t got the space to do that
Is the dialogue method that you are describing also again.”
related to the organizational learning approach of
Chris Argyris with, at its core, the idea of making You are assuming the T-group mentality. You’re
assumptions explicit (e.g., Argyris, 1985)? assuming that the interpersonal openness is the
issue, and it may very well be that what goes on in
Argyris makes the assumption that we can and that cultural island has nothing to do with that. It
will state our unconscious assumptions. However, has to do with trying to understand each other’s
if you believe in Goffman (1967) and symbolic in- culture a little better so that we can work together.
teractionism, you realize that the reason I withhold It’s like when the military does these after-action
these assumptions is very profound. It is not just a reviews where they say, “Well, let’s have every-
mechanical problem. It is a problem that if I really, body tell what they did and what worked and what
really told you what I think, I might be disrupting didn’t.” It’s very task-focused. It’s not “how I feel
the social order. So Argyris’ “left-hand right-hand about you” but it’s “how we did what.”
column” helps people to look at the consequences Do you know the author Amy Edmondson? She
has written a lot about surgical teams. She has one How can we do that? How can we educate people,
article that was in Administrative Science Quar- particularly leaders or future leaders, how to be
terly that is very important (Edmondson, Bohmer, & temporarily humble?
Pisano, 2001). She compares eight hospitals that
successfully adopted a very new sophisticated It is going to be very tricky because, as Goffman
open-heart procedure and eight other hospitals would tell you, the whole point of being a leader is
that tried it and abandoned it. She got curious: that you now “know everything.” Leaders are sup-
Why did some hospitals use it and others abandon posed to know what to do, so people below the
it? She found that in the hospitals that continue to leader are going to defer to him or her—let them be
use it, the senior surgeon had said, “This is going the deciders even if they don’t know enough to
to be complicated; the key nurse, anesthesiologist, make good decisions. But in a world where leaders
perfusionist and I are going to have to go off and do not know everything, where the subordinates
train together.” So they went off for 3– 4 days and are highly skilled technicians, how are we going to
practiced this new technique. In that process they get leaders to admit that they don’t know every-
established signals and communication. The sur- thing and actually ask for help? What is it about
geon said, “Look, if I am doing this, you have got to these cardiac surgeons that made them say, “Oh,
tell me this and this.” In the other group of hospi- oh. This is going to be difficult, I’d better join this
tals that never adopted the new procedure, the group and we’d better train together.” What an act
senior surgeon said, “This is a matter of profes- of humility by the doctors to go off and train with
sionalism; we are going to go in and put the best these others who are below them in status. If we
key nurse, the best anesthesiologist, the best per- don’t train leaders to accept help and ask for it,
fusionist in.” They also went to the training pro- organizations are going to have trouble because
gram on the technique but apparently were not the reality is that the subordinates will be from
mindful of the need to learn to work together as a different cultures, have different occupations, are
team. For them the new procedure did not work. much more expert. In that situation, the leader will
They kept failing. So they said, “This procedure is have to accept that “I may be the coordinator and
too complicated.” But what they hadn’t done is the facilitator but I’m not the decision maker.”
gone off to a cultural island to establish communi-
cation channels and ways of working that would The leader has to learn to accept and manage a
enable them to quickly communicate under the high level of interdependence?
crisis of the actual operation.
That’s right and you, the researcher– educators,
It had nothing to do with T-groups or feedback.
have to begin to insert this mentality into the stu-
So, when I say cultural island, I’m saying more
dents early so that they don’t say, “OK, I’m a stu-
task-related culturally oriented communication
dent now, so now I have to be humble but when I
and building new norms of dealing with authority
get to be the boss then I can tell everybody what to
and trust. Such norms can be brought back to the
do.”
workplace. “The doctor has a new relationship
How you train leaders in humble inquiry is the
with this nurse now.” That will carry over, not only
into that operation, but maybe into other tasks as 64-dollar question. I don’t know how to do that but
well. Because now, “even if I’m the doctor and she I think it is going to be essential. Maybe you start
is the nurse, we now have learned how to commu- out by giving them helping theory (Schein, 2009a)
nicate with each other without there being a status and get them thinking in terms of nonhierarchical
problem.” And the nurse may feel confident helping relationships so that they get trained in
enough that if the doctor is doing something humble inquiry in normal day-to-day situations
wrong, she will speak up. Whereas in these other with spouses, friends, and children. I think the
groups that never became mindful of the need for most important idea I want to push in the next
new communication norms, the nurse would still years is this idea of the leader having the insight
be scared, would keep silent, and would let the and the skill to create cultural islands for them-
doctor make the mistake. These surgical teams selves and their subordinates. The idea of “on-the-
illustrate the issue of what has to be new in man- job” training will not work in a multicultural con-
agement education, particularly for potential lead- text. People have very different experiences and
ers, like leaders of surgical teams. I think during live in different social orders so they will not be
the training period, somewhere they have to learn able on-line to suddenly blend with each other. But
how to be temporarily humble in the interest of cultural islands may not be very long, it may be
building relationships with the people on whom only an hour, it may be several days, but the key is
they are dependent. temporary dialogue and suspension of the normal
cultural rules, so that we can begin to see how a lot of time. But we couldn’t help thinking, “Univer-
each other really thinks. sities usually don’t give a PhD student enough time to
actually go into an organization for, say, 6 months.”
Maybe you have some advice for PhD students about
MANAGEMENT LEARNING AND EDUCATION IN how to deal with this time pressure and increasing
2020: A “HAPPY” FUTURE? pressure to write articles?
Now that you’ve made the shift to the future and A PhD student in that situation hasn’t got much
have talked about training/education and what choice. If you really want that PhD degree and the
needs to happen, another question emerges. Take a faculty says, “You have to do it in this way,” you
moment to imagine the field of management learn- only have the choice to do what they say or go to
ing and education in 2020. It embodies all that you some other university. I don’t think there is some
really mean by “helping.” You already mentioned magic way of creating time in a situation that does
the importance of managers learning to work in not allow it. It is a tough choice, you know, “Do you
cultural islands, to set up dialogues, to be humble really want the degree enough to play by the rules
inquirers. What would the field look like? How is of the institution?” My advice then would be “Get
research and teaching done? How are PhD students through it as fast as you can and then, afterward,
trained? do what you feel is more appropriate.”
If you look at who is running all these doctoral
Training programs will have to build in some kind consortia that have been going on here (Academy
of internship at every level, undergraduate or of Management Meeting 2009), it is mostly the ten-
graduate, that puts students for a time into a help- ured professors who are telling the students, “If
ing situation where they are out there to give help. you want to get your doctorate, better do this and
That is very important. The mistake we make in this.” I’m fortunate that I am through that. I had to
management learning and education is that we go through it as well. Publish and get things done.
send people out into organizations to do research. I was fortunate because Harvard Social Relations
We say “gain entry and gather data.” But from the did have a required 1-year internship. The trend in
organization’s point of view that is a waste. They many universities and business schools isn’t neces-
don’t really get anything out of it. We promise them sarily a very happy one. Many of the business
feedback but we rarely really help them. schools I have talked to lately are all going toward
Students as future leaders will have to learn to say more traditional academic research with a strong
to a company: “I am in this university program and quantitative orientation with little emphasis on
I’d like to spend 6 months in your organization doing learning how to be helpful.
whatever you think needs doing.” Let them have the
experience of even finding their own organizations We can rebel, protest?
and begging for a job. If the faculty provides all the
You can do what I do and just criticize it from the
organizations as research sites and says, “this stu-
outside and say, “Look, clinical real-life research is
dent goes here, this student goes there,” the students
more important, all students should have an in-
are not learning how to be humble. But to say, “Every
ternship,” or work in shorter experiences that have
student must find during their 2-year program an
a similar broadening effect. We used to do an ex-
organization to which they apply for 6 months or a
ercise, “The Empathy Walk,” (Schein, 1996) that
year of work trying to be helpful to that organiza-
went like this. You have a group of say 20 students.
tion,” or some version of that, then they have a
You give them the following instructions. “As part
chance to learn humility. During this internship stu-
of your homework next week you are going to pair
dents can do field notes, write a journal, document
up, preferably with someone you do not already
what that it felt like, and use that material for an
know. Your first task will be to get acquainted with
important paper on learning how to help. Then they
each other sufficiently to decide on what kind of
will be better researchers because they will know
person is most different from the two of you con-
how to interact with an organization to create the
cerning occupation, social structure, status, na-
climate for producing high-quality data that isn’t just
tionality, and so on. Once the two of you have
check marks on a survey instrument.
figured that out, find such a person, and interview
We see that PhD students are experiencing more and them about their world. Next week in class we will
more time pressure because they have to do their have each pair report on whom they picked, how
PhDs in a limited time span. When we read your book they established contact, and what they learned
on helping, we notice that engaging in helping, and from their get-together.” People at first throw in all
learning from this experience, is a process that needs kinds of examples to see whether or not you ap-
prove, and I just say, “I have given you all the cation efforts. We need to invent new ways of giv-
instructions.” Then they get creative and begin to ing people learning experiences without having
think of beggars, street musicians, a famous actor, the time for a whole internship. Change the pro-
a union leader, and so on. They know what you cess if not the timetable.
mean: someone who is “very different.” They have
a week to do this exercise. When you say “you Do you see other important influences that will
really have to do this” people at first want help, but change management education and learning?
if you don’t give them any help, they figure it out The bigger question is what will things look like in
themselves and people go to Trappist monks, pris- the future? I think we all have to watch with inter-
ons to find a prisoner, and so on. est and not make any assumptions about it. The
They always come up with something interest- biggest influence will probably be information
ing. They bring back incredible stories and often technology. Even right now, how many organiza-
find out that the person “wasn’t as different as we tions are totally geographically decentralized?
thought.” “Their life was different but they have People have no offices and sometimes never meet.
the same dreams and aspirations.” More important Relationships will be on the Internet, not face-to-
from a cultural training point of view is that they face. I have no idea where this is going to go,
sometimes discover that the difference between nobody does probably. Maybe the kids do. I look at
the two was greater than between them and the my grandchildren: teenagers. They may have a
other person. The exercise forces them to confront more accurate vision of the future. Maybe we
the rules of the social order— how to make contact should ask them instead of second guess it. Even
with someone from another culture and establish a
this idea that the 14-year-old has her 25 people on
relationship. The ability to empathize, learning to
Facebook, and does she go out on a date? No, she
see and experience the world through someone
interacts with these 25 people. That is her rela-
else’s eyes and to establish relationships across
tional set. Does she want anyone of them espe-
boundaries, is a crucial ability for everyone in a
cially? No, she communicates with all of them.
leading function. As our world is becoming more
That’s a totally different set of rules. Maybe or-
global every day, this ability will become even more
ganizations will be like that. There won’t be colo-
important in the future. Leaders will have to develop
cated teams, jobs will migrate into something that
the ability to handle diversity constructively. The
can be done on the Internet, and people will col-
hardest part is usually to actually make contact with
laborate across continents. Education may change
that other person. Say they pick a street musician.
that way. We now already have a lot of distance
“How are we going to actually break the ice and start
education. I do a Global Classroom in which I
talking to this person?” Why should that be so diffi-
lecture to and interact with over 400 people all over
cult? It is because of the social order, the status rules;
you do not have a prior connection. So they invent the world. I could have a group of students who
things such as, “If it is a poor person let’s offer to take will be networked for the next 6 months, working
him out for a meal.” on a joint project, writing each other about how
One of the most dramatic cases was when a pair they relate to authority. Focused readings could
wanted to contact a young AIDS patient. This pair simply be sent as e-mail attachments. You are
was scared to death because they were really constructing educational events from which you
afraid they were going to catch AIDS. They actu- think they will benefit. You might even, at the end
ally found this young man, got together with him, of the course, give them a degree without ever
and were profoundly influenced by the fact that he having seen them because you will have tested
was desperately scared of catching something them through your interactions on the Internet.
from them because that’s the real danger. He was Where is the experiential learning in this story,
the one with AIDS, his immune system was very experiential learning that needs a lot of “touch”?
vulnerable, he was in much more jeopardy from
talking to them than they were from him. That was They are having different kinds of experiences, but
an enormous insight for them. it is not face-to-face. Why do we think that face-to-
The Empathy Walk is an exercise that doesn’t face experience is sacred? I have an example of
take a lot of time but produces a profound inter- one of my grandchildren about how the language
personal experience. If you make people cross the itself is adapting. He is the middle brother of three.
social status lines in an inquiry mode, they can The rest of the family went to Hawaii on holiday.
have very enlightening experiences. It is also an He is in college, so he couldn’t go. They are all big
illustration of the use of creativity to get at some athletes, and they all surf. The younger brother
things. We may not do enough of that in our edu- had a very good ride on a wave, and they took a
really good picture that shows Oliver on this wave, very useful unless they are based on and linked
a beautiful photograph. This was sent to every- with experience.
body, also to Peter who was in college. What
comes back from Peter is the following message
that all of us got: “that was sooooooooo unfair.” He The human fields require a tight linkage
got it all across in one short line by stretching the between theory and practice. Good theory
word. You immediately understand what he feels is not enough . . . . abstract theories aren’t
and you are laughing. Who is to say that we are not very useful unless they are based on and
going to develop a whole emotional language with
these tools? Stretching words, sending pictures,
linked with experience. —Schein
and so on.
Embrace what is going to come? CORE CONTRIBUTION: IT IS EVOLVING
Yes. And the best way to relate to my grandchildren You have been working in a broad field. If you look
is just watch them. If I get upset about what they are back on all your contributions, what do you con-
doing because they are spending too much time on sider the most important, the one that you are most
television or their computer screens, that is stupid. It attached to from the work with the war veterans
is their world. It is a different world from my world. (Schein, Schneider, & Barker, 1961) to the work on
We complain that they are superficial. By doing all helping (Schein, 2009a) you are doing now?
this multitasking, they are not getting into anything
deeply enough. Maybe true but so what? Why put a It is evolving. I don’t think I have a single thing that
judgment on it? They may live in a world where I consider to be the most important. Each area
depth is not important but where the ability to mul- seemed to lead to other areas. What is important
tiprocess is much more important. They can do varies with the audience. For example, I was asked
things that I can’t do. They can simultaneously text, to meet with a group of hospital administrators who
listen, and watch, and that is what they are mostly were trying to improve health care. My consultant
friends who were working with this group invited me
doing in the classroom, too.
in because they thought it was very important for the
You are considered the father of organizational doctors to learn about culture and subcultures. All
psychology. We are concerned about the future of my experience with the health care system sug-
organizational psychology. We see organizational gested that they really needed to understand culture
psychology becoming very “poor,” that is to say, better. So, on this particular Sunday afternoon, I gave
moving back to experimental social psychology or them all the ideas about culture and it was all going
being very instrumental and functional. Is there very well. Then somehow an issue came up about
still a future for the experiential learning, group “All doctors are like such and so, all doctors want
dynamic, processual approach? autonomy, and so on.” So I said just off the cuff “I
have done some other research on careers that
It is essential and will catch on more and more. If suggests to me that in fact maybe different doc-
anything is going to die or will become irrelevant it tors want different things.” They looked a little
will be traditional ivory tower academia. bit puzzled. I explained a little bit on career
That’s a statement, that’s a very strong statement. anchors and made clear that some people want
to be managers and some people want to be the
The human fields require a tight linkage be- world’s best surgeon. The energy in the group
tween theory and practice. Good theory is not shot up because suddenly they were being told
enough. Even in the very esoteric fields like fi- something that was brand new to them. Culture,
nance, it is the tools, the applications, the finan- “Yes, interesting,” but they knew about culture.
cial mechanisms that the world has learned to But the idea that different doctors are in their
use. And, as I have argued in the clinical ap- field for different reasons simply hadn’t occurred
proach, unless scholars have relevant experi- to them. And that there was research on this was
ences with real organizations, they cannot de- a revelation for them. So we ended up having a
velop good theory. And out of good theory then very productive couple of hours on career an-
comes good practice. The future is in practice. chors, totally unanticipated.
We, therefore, need much more respect for theo- So I could say, “That’s the most important thing I
ries of practice in the social human field. What have done, the career anchors . . . for doctors.” But
physics, math, and others do, that’s another mat- maybe for some other population, it is something
ter. In the human field, abstract theories aren’t else. The human resources people might consider
the career anchors relatively routine. They might be an opportunity to take advantage of this position
more interested in some other aspect of what I have (see Schein, 2009a: 40).
written about. I’ve learned that what is interesting to Together with this imbalance, the initial rela-
people is what they do not know about. So what’s the tionship is characterized by ambiguity and tension
most important thing to me? It doesn’t resolve. Cer- because there is a great deal of ignorance about
tainly the book on helping (Schein, 2009a) focuses a each other’s internal worlds. Neither the helper nor
lot of it. I think I’ve always been obsessed with the the client initially knows what to expect or how to
relationship between the individual and the system, enact the relationship (Schein, 2009a: 35). At this
the individual and the organization. You can say that stage, the helper’s role is to create a conversation
the career anchors idea is all about the individual, that will permit both the client and the helper to
culture is really all about the organization, and pro- reduce their ignorance and establish equilibrium
cess consultation and helping are about the relation- in their relationship. For the helper, this means
ship. So the contribution is the total package rather engaging in humble inquiry. How this process
than one element of it. plays out will depend very much on the actual
situation, as is illustrated in the interview, the
Thank you very much for this interview. It was a
endeavor, however, is always to establish a work-
wonderful experience. Did you enjoy it?
ing interpersonal relationship. The intention is to
It was fun to do. I hope it will be useful and others balance the status, build trust, and obtain crucial
can learn from it as well. information that enables the helper to figure out
what to do next. The helper has the choice to stay
in the process consultation role doing humble in-
EPILOGUE quiry or to move to the expert or doctor role. De-
pending on the emerging situation, the helper may
The main purpose of the interview was to learn
shift between all the three roles as much as
from Schein’s contributions to organizational
needed (Schein, 2009a: 64).
scholarship and practice in order to become better
As humble inquiry is the common thread of the
scholar–practitioners. According to Schein, becom-
interview, the concept deserves further attention. Ac-
ing a good scholar–practitioner comes down to de-
cording to Schein (2009a), humble inquiry is both a
veloping process expertise in building and main-
helper’s attitude and his or her behavior. It embodies
taining the helping relationship by engaging in
“accessing one’s ignorance” and becoming open to
“humble inquiry” as the situation demands. Al-
what may be learned from each other in the actual
though Schein has laid the groundwork and paved
situation through attentive presence and observing,
the way, helping is a very complicated social pro-
genuine open empathic questioning, careful listen-
cess (Schein, 2009a) that must be examined more
ing, self-inquiry, and suspending any judgment
closely in order to understand its profound impli-
(Schein, 1996, 1999, 2009a). In this description, “to ac-
cations on management research, practice, and
cess your ignorance” means asking yourself “What
education.
do I truly not know?” It is not about testing your
preconceptions or hypotheses, as clients will be in-
clined to follow them instead of disclosing their con-
Helping and Humble Inquiry
cerns. It is about genuinely and openly inquiring into
From a temporal perspective, every helping rela- the situation—suspending your assumptions, pre-
tionship between a client and a helper-to-be is conceptions, and expectations based on past experi-
initially in a state of imbalance and ambiguity. ence—to enhance understanding. The interview
Emotionally and socially, when clients ask for help makes clear that humble inquiry is important in the
they are putting themselves “one down.” This initial relationship-building process. However, it is
makes them temporarily vulnerable because they also crucial in strengthening and maintaining the
are taking on a dependent role vis-à-vis the helper. helping relationship because it provides a concrete
Asking for help implies a temporary loss of status, way to stay continuously attuned to the client system
face, control, and independence in the acknowl- (Schein, 1999, 2009a).
edgment of not knowing what to do next or of being On the basis of his experiences as a researcher,
unable to do it. In all cultures in which growing up consultant, and teacher, Schein illustrates above
to adulthood means becoming increasingly inde- that learning to build and maintain helping relation-
pendent, this feeling of losing independence is ships through humble inquiry opens up new possi-
particularly strong. At the same time, the helper is bilities to advance management research, practice,
“one up” having been given power, status, and and education. By laying out a concrete relational
value by the client, which also provides the helper path, Schein adds an important and new element
and level to the discussion on the crisis and future of client’s issues as engaged helpers or partners try-
our field (e.g., Bennis & O’Toole, 2005; Mintzberg, ing to assist practitioners in becoming more
2005; Mintzberg & Gosling, 2002; Pfeffer & Fong, 2002, skilled in solving their own problems.
2004; Starkey, Hatchuel, & Tempest, 2004, 2009; Star-
key & Tempest, 2009). In what follows, we further
develop and integrate Schein’s insights into this dis- What is new, however, is that Schein
cussion, stressing the implications for management gives us real actionable insight into the
research, practice, and education. critical condition needed for beginning
and sustaining a cocreation process that
Management Research is mutually beneficial.
The big problem that Schein sees looming ahead is
that management academia will become irrelevant “Co-creation then is (a) an emerging reciprocal
to the world of practice. Several others in the Acad- process of status negotiation . . . and (b) a process
emy of Management Learning & Education and else- of trust building through reciprocal calibration of
where have made similar observations about our the degree to which each bit of conversation is
field (e.g., Bennis & O’Toole, 2005; Pfeffer & Fong, understood and accepted by the other” (Schein,
2002). According to Schein, the core of the crisis is 2009b: 150). As the researcher and the practitioner
that management research is far removed from the converse, they might gradually remove some of
actual practice of managing and organizing (see each other’s ignorance, and, if the researcher-
also Bennis & O’Toole, 2005; Pfeffer & Fong, 2002) and helper has managed to make the “client” feel able
so produces over-abstract and de-contextualized or- to move forward, mutual trust is built that allows
ganization theories that are not very useful in prac- them to move forward together (Schein, 2009b).
tice. And even when we go into organizations, Schein When this process goes well, they increasingly
argues, often our goal is not really to help practitio- become involved in each other’s inquiry and learn-
ners but rather to collect data for our own research ing process as partners (Lambrechts, Grieten, Bou-
and publication agenda. By taking and not giving, wen, & Corthouts, 2009). The researcher helps the
asymmetrical, low-quality relationships are being practitioner in dealing with organizational issues,
built, which makes it unlikely that practitioners will and the practitioner helps the researcher by gen-
reveal what is really on their minds. In this way, not erating more valid data, thus allowing the scholar–
only are we unhelpful to practitioners, but also we practitioner to build relevant organization theories
are not meeting our original goal of creating strong, that can have a major impact in both practice and
impactful theories of what goes on in organizations academia. Therefore, like others (e.g., Bennis &
because our research variables often do not reflect O’Toole, 2005; Starkey, Hatchuel, & Tempest, 2009),
real-life organizational problems (Schein, 1993a, Schein advocates relevance as a necessary condi-
1995, 1996). Moreover, Schein sees a growing trend in tion for rigor in his path to theory development.
universities and business schools toward even more Note that Schein does not want to contend that
traditional academic research with a strong quanti- the academic is solely to blame for the practitioner–
tative and prestructured orientation away from clin- academic divide (see also Bennis & O’Toole, 2005:
ical, real-life research. 103). Both scholars and practitioners have to learn
What should be done about this gap between how to become better helpers and better clients
the world of management research and the world vis-à-vis each other (see also Beer & Nohria, 2000).
of management practice? Schein’s answer is As we argue below, management education might
straightforward. More academics have to learn well play an important role in setting-up and fa-
how to collaborate closely with practitioners in cilitating these learning processes.
shared projects, fostering mutual inquiring and
learning, aimed at coproducing knowledge that
Management Practice
benefits both communities in their own way. Oth-
ers have also suggested coproduction as a possi- In the interview, Schein conveys an important mes-
ble solution for the big relevancy problem we are sage for management practice that must be exam-
having (e.g., Starkey, Hatchuel, & Tempest, 2009; ined carefully: “[Leaders] have to learn how to be
Starkey & Tempest, 2009). What is new, however, is temporarily humble in the interest of building re-
that Schein gives us real actionable insight into lationships with the people on whom they are [in-
the critical condition needed for beginning and creasingly] dependent.” Given that organizations
sustaining a cocreation process that is mutually and societies live in a world that is becoming in-
beneficial. Researchers have to participate in the creasingly global, complex, interdependent, multi-
cultural, and multiexpert, leaders are going to find turn how he or she deals with important issues,
themselves more and more in situations in which starting with the management of authority and
(a) they do not know everything and need to ask intimacy. Through suspending their culturally
and accept help from subordinates who are much driven assumptions and carefully listening to one-
more expert in some content area than they are, (b) self and to others, both the team members and the
subordinates ask for help in content areas in which leader reduce their ignorance of each other’s inter-
the leaders are not experts, and (c) they are in- nal worlds and gradually build sufficient common
creasingly challenged to build and lead multicul- ground that might enable them to inquire collec-
tural teams. However, enacting this humble help- tively (Isaacs, 1993) into how they might begin to
ing role will be very difficult and problematic for work together. What is important in this dialogue
most leaders: Not only do all the complexities of process is that the possibility of suspending col-
the helping process apply but also the presence of lectively remains part of the process after the
a hierarchical relationship compounds the issue. group has learned to do so (Isaacs, 1993). Leaders
From childhood on, we learn that interactions contribute to this process by modeling humble in-
and relationships are made possible through mu- quiry behavior that displays the ability to suspend
tual maintenance of “face.” We gradually learn to their preconceptions and judgments, which is nec-
respect the social order, reinforce it with our ac- essary to develop and maintain reciprocal helping
tions and interactions, and avoid threatening it by relationships (Schein, 2009a: 107). However, most
“misbehaving” (Goffman, 1967). As subordinates leaders have never learned how to be humble in-
we learn how to be properly deferent, and as lead- quirers and set up dialogue formats either in their
ers we learn what kind of demeanor is necessary to cultural learning or in their formal management
gain and maintain the respect of those below us, education.
thereby making relationships felt to be fair and
equitable (Schein, 2009a: 23).
The problem for leaders is that, in most cultures,
Management Education
asking and accepting help from a subordinate or
admitting not knowing the answer to a subordi- Several scholars agree that management educa-
nate’s question disrupts the normal social order. It tion, like management research, suffers from a
is “countercultural,” thus often “not done,” and lack of relevance to, and impact on, the real world
might be felt by the leader as a loss of face (Schein, of managing and organizing (e.g., Bennis &
2009a) and even career threatening in highly polit- O’Toole, 2005; Detrick, 2002; Mintzberg & Gosling,
ical organizations. For these reasons, it is doubtful 2002; Pfeffer & Fong, 2002, 2004; Starkey, Hatchuel,
that a leader will display enough humility even & Tempest, 2004, 2009; Starkey & Tempest, 2009).
when this is necessary to build helping and learn- The reasons are many but might be roughly sum-
ing relationships. However, Schein is not alone in marized as follows: Inexperienced students are
stressing the importance of leaders taking a more overtrained in analyses and quantification by pro-
humble stance toward the people they lead. fessors with limited real-word experience, who
Edmondson (2008: 65), for example, argues that strictly adhere to the scientific model of science
the display of humility by leaders helps them to delegitimizing pluralism in knowledge-production
create safe psychological environments, thereby forms, acting completely in line with what their
fostering mutual learning and inquiry (see also incentive and promotion system rewards, away
Prokesch, 1997). Collins (2001), too, states that effec- from practitioners, considerably neglecting the de-
tive “good-to-great” leadership embodies blending velopment of important interpersonal manage-
personal humility (as opposed to self-promotion, ment skills highly needed in management and or-
arrogance, egocentrism) with an intense profes- ganization practice.
sional will to excel (see also Mintzberg, 2005). Given Schein’s thoughts about management re-
Leading multicultural teams poses yet addi- search and management practice, what has to be
tional challenges for leaders. When they face the changed in management education becomes crys-
task of building a good working multicultural tal clear. More scholars and leaders (in business
team, leaders should start in a humble inquiry and faculty) have to learn during their training
mode, Schein argues. As the appropriate rules of periods how to become better helpers who can
deference and demeanor are very different across engage in humble inquiry as much as needed in
cultures (Goffman, 1967), leaders might begin by order to build and maintain helping relationships
structuring a group conversation in a more cultur- with those upon whom they are increasingly de-
ally neutral dialogue format (Isaacs, 1993) in which pendent. Universities and business schools might
each team member, including the leader, tells in contribute substantially to this learning goal if we
are willing to change “what and how we teach” signments aimed at explicating the most impor-
(Bell, 2009: 574). tant learning lessons (e.g., Schein, 1996). As do
The core of Schein’s argument is that more pro- others (e.g., Bennis & O’Toole, 2005; Starkey & Tem-
fessors and management-educators should en- pest, 2009), Schein advocates inserting more con-
gage in constructing and facilitating experiential- tent from the humanities into our curricula. How-
learning processes in their training programs and ever, for Schein this content (e.g., face work, social
courses that develop essential helping attitudes order, communication as relational, contextual
and skills (see also Detrick, 2002; Mintzberg & Gos- and rule-driven in cultures) always has to be rele-
ling, 2002). Like others (e.g., Bennis & O’Toole, 2005; vant and strongly connected to the shifting needs
Detrick, 2002; Mintzberg & Gosling, 2002), Schein and challenges of the world of management and
stresses that much more attention needs to be de- organizing. Central for Schein in all of this is that
voted to building in internships during the training we need to learn or relearn to relate to the world
period of future leaders and faculty. What Schein around us through a spirit of open humble inquiry,
adds, however, is the clarification of the necessary creativity, and genuine curiosity (see also Starkey
learning experiences and processes that partici- & Tempest, 2009).
pants have to go through in order to become better
helpers. Instead of faculty making it easy for them,
Engaging in Further Discussion and Action
being “student-friendly” and providing the candi-
date organizations for an internship, Schein We agree with Starkey and Tempest (2009: 576 –577)
stresses the importance of not patronizing students that “there is a pressing need to open ourselves up
but letting them have the experience of struggling to new ideas, to new images of possibility, to new
and working through ambiguity as a necessary design principles . . . upon which to build.” Given
condition for experiential learning on how to be the current problems and issues we face in man-
humble instead of arrogant (see also Detrick, 2002; agement research and education, Schein’s ideas
Mintzberg, 2005; Mintzberg & Gosling, 2002). If an and insights have the potential to become building
extended internship is not possible due to time blocks for a more practice-close impactful man-
constrains, Schein calls upon our ingenuity to in- agement research and education field.
vent more experiential-learning exercises such as The major accreditation associations (AACSB,
“The Empathy Walk” (Schein, 1996), which invites AMBA, and EQUIS) and most universities and busi-
the participants to use their creativity (see also ness schools worldwide underscore, at least in
Detrick, 2002) in order to cross and bridge social their espoused theories (Argyris, 1985), practice-
status lines in an empathic, open, humble inquiry closeness and relevance as key aspects of impact-
mode. Schein also encourages us to learn how to ful research (e.g., AACSB, 2008). The challenge re-
set up dialogue formats with our multicultural stu- mains, however, to convert these words into
dent groups and experiment with constructing meaningful deeds. Moving in the direction that
learning events using the Internet. Schein suggests, therefore, will not be easy in the
Note that going through these kinds of learning field of management research and education due
experiences and building helping attitudes and to the current institutionalized practices (e.g., Ben-
skills in the process are important for both the nis & O’Toole, 2005; Pfeffer, 2005; Pfeffer & Fong,
future leaders and the faculty. As our world be- 2002) that block change (e.g., the current incentive
comes increasingly global, complex, diverse, and and promotion system only endorsing discipline-
interdependent, leaders are challenged to become based “practice-distant” scholarship).
better helpers in their work with subordinates, It could well be that our enthusiasm for Schein’s
colleagues, cross-functional and cross-cultural ideas has led us to give insufficient attention to
groups, external stakeholders, and . . . scholars, their complexity and potential limitations. How-
and faculty face the task of becoming better help- ever, we know from experience, and our colleagues
ers in building interdisciplinary and cross-cultural have repeatedly reminded us that the core con-
research groups, facilitating the learning pro- cepts of helping and humble inquiry are multifac-
cesses of undergraduate, graduate, doctoral, and eted, challenging, and replete with fields of ten-
postgraduate students, and . . . setting up collabor- sion. For example, the notion of “accessing one’s
ative work with practitioners to coproduce knowl- ignorance” is complicated. It is a basic “way of
edge that matters for both. being with the other,” always trying, but never
All these learning experiences can be supported able, to reach and understand fully the other per-
and deepened by relevant theoretical material in son. There will always remain things that one is
course sessions in which learning experiences are not aware of, that one does not know that one is
shared and inquired into combined with paper as- ignorant of, or even that one cannot understand.
Hence, making errors is inherent to the process. REFERENCES

The only possibility helpers have is trying to be as AACSB International. The Association to Advance Collegiate
receptive and responsive as possible to whatever Schools of Business. 2008. Final report of the AACSB Inter-
the situation and relationship brings, building up national Taskforce. Impact of research. Tampa, FL: AACSB.
awareness of their emotional makeup and readi- Ackoff, R. 1974. Redesigning the future: A systems approach to
ness to change, the goal always being to help the societal problems. New York: Wiley.
client to the best of one’s ability. Helping on the Argyris, C. 1985. Strategy, change and defensive routines. Bos-
short versus long term is another challenging ten- ton, MA: Pitman.
sion that must be dealt with. For example, helpers Beer, M., & Nohria, N. 2000. Breaking the code of change. Boston,
may suppose that they are being helpful at one MA: Harvard Business School Press.
moment only to discover later that their help actu- Bell, M. P. 2009. Introduction: Changing the world through what
ally eliminated important learning opportunities and how we teach. Academy of Management Learning &
Education, 8: 574 –575.
for the client. Nevertheless, working with tensions
is inherent in working with human systems. They Bennis, W., & O’Toole, J. 2005. How business schools lost their
way. Harvard Business Review, 83(5): 96 –104.
cannot be completely resolved; they can only be
taken as explicit subject matter into the reciprocal Bradbury, H., & Lichtenstein, B. M. B. 2000. Relationality in or-
ganizational research: Exploring the space between. Orga-
attunement and learning process between the nization Science, 11: 551–564.
helper and the client.
Coghlan, D., & Shani, A. B. (Eds.). 2009. The challenges of the
Furthermore, Schein’s concepts are not static scholar-practitioner [Special Issue in honor of Edgar H.
and prescriptive by nature but rather dynamic and Schein]. The Journal of Applied Behavioral Science, 45(1).
multilayered. Their evolving meaning and signifi- Collins, J. 2001. Level 5 leadership: The triumph of humility and
cance only comes alive in the specific relation- fierce resolve. Harvard Business Review, 83(7/8): 136 –146.
ships and practices that helpers and clients de- Coutu, D. 2002. The anxiety of learning. Harvard Business Re-
velop in their specific contexts. Therefore, we call view, 80(3): 100 –106.
for more research in our field that inquires into Detrick, G. 2002. Russell L. Ackoff. Academy of Management
these practices in order to capture the complexi- Learning & Education, 1: 56 – 63.
ties, subtleties, and boundary conditions of Edmondson, A. C. 2008. The competitive imperative of learning.
Schein’s concepts in a diversity of interactive set- Harvard Business Review, 86(7/8): 60 – 67.
tings ranging from the interpersonal group to the Edmondson, A. C., Bohmer, R. M., & Pisano, G. P. 2001. Disruptive
interorganizational and multistakeholder collabo- routines: Team learning and new technology implementa-
ration level; in hierarchical versus nonhierarchical tion in hospitals. Administrative Science Quarterly, 46: 685–
716.
contexts; in everyday forms of organization and
work versus mutually negotiated learning settings Goffman, E. 1967. Interaction ritual. New York: Aldine.
(e.g., “cultural islands”); and across cultures (e.g., Hofstede, G. 1980. Culture consequences: International differ-
to what extent is the dialogue format, indeed, cul- ences in work-related values. London: Sage.
turally neutral?). Isaacs, W. N. 1993. Taking flight: Dialogue, collective thinking,
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Kolb, D. A., Rubin, I. M., & McIntyre, J. M. 1971. Organizational
and learning, interdisciplinary and multistake-
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Prokesch, S. 1997. Unleashing the power of learning: An inter- apy: A conceptual and empirical journey in search of ‘sys-
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Frank J. Lambrechts is assistant René Bouwen is full professor

professor of organizational emeritus of organizational psy-
change & learning at the KIZOK chology and group dynamics at
Research Center for Entrepre- the University of Leuven (Bel-
neurship and Innovation, Univer- gium). His main research fields
sity of Hasselt (Belgium). Lam- have been group processes, or-
brechts received his PhD in ganizational conflict, innovation,
social sciences from the Univer- and change consultation. Today
sity of Tilburg (the Netherlands). he focuses on relational prac-
His research and teaching inter- tices and process learning in
ests focus on the nature and multiparty and interorganiza-
quality of relationships that tional collaboration in social
shape trust, leadership, co- and ecological sustainability
ownership and joint learning in projects. Relational construction-
organizational change and learning contexts. He has a special ism and appreciative inquiry are guiding principles to embody
interest in how these relational dynamics play out in family actionable knowledge.
firms and boards of directors. He is actively involved in exec-
utive postgraduate training on people and leadership
development.
Styn Grieten is assistant profes- Jolien P. Huybrechts is a PhD stu-

sor of organization development dent at the KIZOK Research Cen-
at the Human Relations Research ter for Entrepreneurship and In-
Group (Economics and Manage- novation at the University of
ment) at the Hogeschool- Hasselt (Belgium). Her PhD is
Universiteit Brussel (HUB) in Bel- situated in the field of family
gium. Grieten’s research focuses business, management, and
on organization development, corporate governance. She spe-
process consultation, and sus- cifically focuses on intangible
tainable collaboration. He is af- resources that provide family
filiated with the Center for Orga- firms with a sustainable com-
nization Studies at the University petitive advantage.
of Leuven.
Edgar Schein is the Sloan Fel-

lows Professor of Management
Emeritus at the MIT Sloan School
of Management. He received his
PhD in social psychology from
Harvard in 1952, worked at the
Walter Reed Institute of Research
for 4 years, and then joined MIT
where he taught until 2005. He
has published extensively in Or-
ganizational Psychology, 3rd ed.
(1980), Process Consultation Re-
visited (1999); career dynamics
(Career Anchors, 3rd ed., 2006); or-
ganizational culture texts (Organizational Culture and Leader-
ship, 4th ed., 2010; The Corporate Culture Survival Guide, 2nd
ed., 2009); and analyses of Singapore’s economic miracle (Stra-
tegic Pragmatism, 1996); and Digital Equipment Corp.’s rise and
fall (DEC is Dead; Long Live DEC, 2003). He continues to consult
and recently has published a book on the general theory and
practice of giving and receiving help (Helping, 2009). He is the
2009 recipient of the Distinguished Scholar–Practitioner Award
of the Academy of Management.

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姝 Academy of Management Learning & Education, 2011, Vol. 10, No. 1, 131–147.

Learning to Help Through

INTRODUCTION The occasion of the interview was his receiving the

was shared; and other ineffective interpersonal be-

Hence, making errors is inherent to the process. REFERENCES

Frank J. Lambrechts is assistant René Bouwen is full professor

Styn Grieten is assistant profes- Jolien P. Huybrechts is a PhD stu-

Edgar Schein is the Sloan Fel-

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