Engine Troubleshooting Vespa
Engine Troubleshooting Vespa
Engine Troubleshooting Vespa
This page is dedicated to engine issues. If you want to know how a P200 two stroke engine works, read
my primer listed below. I have a tutorial on dropping the engine and cracking the cases to get at the
cruciform. Scooterhelp.com offers a method of getting at the cruciform without dropping the engine out of
the frame. Evaluate both methods and choose the one that is best for you. Before attempting these
articles, read them over carefully to get a sense of how to plan them. Engines should only be cracked on
a clean surface free of rocks and debris. Avoid bad weather if you are going to work outside as it will
make most people rush through the job. There will be more posts as I burn more two stroke :)).
Vespa P200 Two Stroke Engine Primer - added: Oct 27, 2001
Cleaning Your Top-End (Decoking) - added: Feb 5, 2002
Dropping the Engine - added: Mar 13, 2002
Splitting the Cases - added: Mar 14, 2002 updated: Mar 18, 2002
Cruciform Replacement - added: Mar 14, 2002
Gear Selector Box Troubleshooting - added: July 4, 2002
Exhaust System Maintenance - added: Sept 25, 2002
Complete Engine Teardown - added: May 12, 2003 updated: Oct 19, 2003
First thing on the roster is the barrel, or bore, or jug - however you may have come to know it. This is the
container that holds back the huge forces behind the combusting gas and directs them to the piston. This
part is centered with cylinder studs and is highly polished (or honed) to allow the best seal possible. If the
polished area is scratched or burnt from overheating, it can be fixed by oversizing. Oversizing can be
done at specialty shops and involves machining a larger hole through the bore and buying a larger piston
to fit.
Secondly, we have the piston. The piston is made of aluminum alloy and moves up and down inside the
cylinder barrel, channelling the force of the combustion into the rod beneath it: the connecting rod. The
rings that skirt the piston head are called piston rings. The piston rings form a tight seal to prevent gas
from escaping and center the piston head in the barrel. The gudgeon pin, or wrist pin, connects the piston
head to the connecting rod.
Speaking of the connecting rod, we will look at that for a minute. The connecting rod is also made of a
light metal and transfers the power from the piston and pushes on the crank. There are two bearings on
the connecting rod, or con-rod, the small end bearing, or the wrist bearing; and the big end bearing, or the
crank pin bearing. These bearings allow a nice circular motion that occurs as your piston moves up and
down inside the cylinder.
The crankshaft, or crank is another moving part within the engine. This component has an offset point,
called the crank pin , inside it which turns the up-and-down motion of the piston into rotational motion
necessary for gears and wheels. The crank is usually made of a really heavy metal, like steel. The
crankshaft also plays a part in injecting the gas into the expansion chamber (the place where the piston
lives).
The combustion chamber is the place where the compression and combustion of the gas mixture occurs.
This part is in the head of the cylinder and looks like a hemisphere (see below). This is the part that your
spark plug threads into.
The expansion chamber is the length of the exhaust pipe. The exhaust pipe is approximately 12 times the
volume of the displacement of your engine and is 'tuned' to give you the largest power bands. The reason
for this phenomenon is that the expansion the combusting of gas is turned into force on the piston, but the
gases from the combustion have to escape before the engine can take in new gas. The onus is on the
exhaust to facilitate quick removal of the expended gas. The exhaust itself will be tuned such that it will
contain exactly the right amount of waste vapours. This creates a pressure difference, that lets some of
the exhaust gases leave the pipe and the some get pulled back into the cylinder with the new charge. The
strength of this back pressure will result in better or worse performance from your motor. This is why
better (tuned) exhausts are soughtafter: the stronger the back pressure, the more efficiently the engine
works.
When people talk about 'good compression', they are indicating that the engine is probably in good
health. Good compression means that the piston rings are well compressed and sealing properly, the
cylinder head and bore are sealed well, the spark plug is tight, the engine seals are tight and the exhaust
is providing good back pressure. You can test compression with a compression tester. this device
measures the change in pressure when the piston reaches the top of the cylinder. A stock vespa engine
typically has a compression of about 120psi. It takes 90psi minimum to start the bike. You can change the
compression ratio of the motor by using different cylinder heads and maintaining the piston rings. This
higher the compression ratio, the more pressure you will get, but heat will build up faster.
Induction
The engine on the P200 uses a 'disc valve' carburettion system and a 'rotary valve' induction system.
What the hell am I talking about? I will explain. Disc valve induction from the carburettor is the slide
moving in and out of the venturi letting more or less gas get through the hole in the bottom of the carb.
Conversely, Rotary valve induction is the cut-out in the crank (you can see this if you turn your flywheel
with the carb disassembled) that pulls in the gas being let through the disc valve at exactly the right time.
The efficiency of the rotary valve's seal is based on the rotary pad. the rotary pad is directly below the
carbuerettor inlet. This is an extremely high precision part of the motor. if it becomes scratched or dented
from an engine failure, the motor will not seal well and you'll lose what is known as primary compression,
the compression caused by the rotary valve and engine pressure.
The engine demands a certain amount of fuel from the carb by forming a large low pressure reigon. this
low pressure draws gas and air through the carb and into the motor. As the rotary valve closes, the piston
has lowered in the cylinder and thus the pressure in the cylinder has changed. Therefore, the fuel mixture
rushes into the cylinder. The pressures in the motor move the mixture up through the transfer ports, or
channels in the bore, and onto the piston head. The purpose of the fuel mix is two-fold. Obviously, the gas
is going to be burnt; however, before that happens, the two stroke oil in the gas lubricates everything it
touches. The two stroke oil also forms a heat resistant shield over your piston, protecting the head
surface from the gas explosion. Unlike a four stroke engine (like that in a car), a two stroke engine top-
end is NOT lubricated by the gearbox oil. This is why two stroke oil has to be added to the gas. If there is
no two stroke oil, or you are 'running lean', your engine will very quickly overheat and seize, and/or blow a
hole through the piston.
Compression
With the gas collected, the piston continues it's travel up the bore. The heavy flywheel turns the crank and
pushes the con-rod, and subsequently the piston, to the top of it's travel. As the piston reaches the top,
the gas becomes compressed against the hemispherical area called the combustion chamber. Now we
get into timing. When we talk about timing, we are observing the firing point of the spark plug. Ideally, the
firing point should occur as the piston reaches the top dead center (TDC) of its travel. The high voltage
electronics that control this firing point a take a few milliseconds to develop a spark across the spark plug.
Because of this delay, we have to offset the timing to make up for it. This offset is usually measured in
degrees and sets off the electronics before the piston actually gets to TDC. The spark plug develops a
huge voltage and arcs through the gas, positively combusting all the gas and putting a large pressure on
the piston head. This gives rise to the Power stroke.
Power Stroke
The con rod, connected to the piston and crank, transfers energy of the blast from the piston head to the
crankshaft. The crank coverts the strong linear forces into equally strong rotational forces. This is where
the engine develops all of its power. By the time the piston opens to the exhaust port again, the pressure
in the pipe is now low and discharges the high pressure combustion exhaust into the pipe. Most of the
gases escape through the tailpipe, but some are reflected to assert a strong reigon of high pressure on
the exhaust port so new charge can enter the cylinder. The piston travels down to the transfer ports once
again and restarts the induction process. This cycle will continue until you run out of gas or you stop the
spark plug from sparking (kill the engine or turn the ignition switch).
Procedure
Step 1
Step 3
Step 4
Step 6
Step 7
Once all the panels are back on the bike, kick start the engine as usual. The engine
should roar to life after a few kicks. If the kickstart lever doesn't feel firm or if the the
engine will only run when the choke is turned on, you have an air leak. This will
probably be caused by the sparkplug not being tight enough (*The plug is touchy, don't
tighten it too strongly or you will rip the threads out of the aluminum*). If you did rip the
threads, there will be a leak around the damage -- take the piece to a machine shop and
have them install a "helicoil insert", and remind them of the fact it is a cylinder head so
they can use a high heat transfer coil. This will replace the old threads and make a
much stronger thread. If the plug IS seated properly, the cylinder head may be warped
from improper tightening. IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN.
However, if it is warped, you will need some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and a piece of
glass. Tape the paper to the glass and wet it. Hold the cylinder head in your palm and
rotate the bottom on the paper until it is flat. Once you are done remount it and try
again. This maintenance should be done yearly for year round riders, every 6000km
(4000 miles) for the "rally only" types.
Procedure
Step 1
Step 3
Step 4
Step 6
Step 7
Step 9
Step 10
Step 12
Step 13
Step 15
Congratulations, you successfully dropped the engine. You can now continue to repair
the engine components. But not before food :)!!! To put the engine back in, it is as
simple as reversing the instructions. I ran into a bit of trouble with worn cables
reassembling my Vespa, so make sure to have spares.
Disassembly
Step 1
Step 3
Step 4
Step 6
Step 7
Step 9
Step 10
Step 12
Reassembly
Step 1
Pull the old case gasket and rub
remenants away with a wire brush.
Rub a ring of assembly grease
around the case edge and replace
the gasket with a new one. If the
old gasket is not torn, it may be
reused in a pinch. Always renew
the case gasket while the engine is
open.
Step 15
So now you're finished cracking the cases (use the reassembly instructions above after
you have repaired the problem). You can return to the engine repair section and select
a topic related to the inside of the cases. Above, I talked about blowback marks on the
piston. These marks show that combusting gas is escaping past the piston. This is
generally not a huge problem, but it should be remedied. To fix this situation you should
take the cylinder to a machine shop to be honed and the piston rings should be
renewed. The rings will just continue to deteriorate and a loss of power will result. The
piston showed no signs of heat seizing, but it is generally identifiable by oval shaped
scratches up and down the piston head. If you note such marks, this represents the
engine overheating or the cylinder out of tolerance. Replace the seals, have a shop
hone the inside barrel and renew the rings to prevent further siezes. You should also
inspect your carb and timing if these marks are observed. Consult a scooter shop for
further assistance.
Cruciform Renewal
Ever riding up a hill and your bike surges or slips out of gear? This is often the fault of a component in the
engine called the Cruciform (or spider). The cruciform is a small cross-shaped alloy part used to select
gears. It works by fitting into square cut outs in the gears themselves. This is a high wear part. Since
there is almost no buffering between the gears, this part receives damage with almost every shift. Sloppy
shifting will expediate its demise. Luckily, this piece will not hurt the steel gears when it slips.
Unfortunately, it is buried deep within the engine. To get at it, start by dropping the engine, then split the
cases and follow the procedure below. Before you attempt this repair, check that your gear selector box
does not have any side to side play. Sometimes this play will make the bike jump out of gear. Replace the
gear selector box components and try to make the bike jump. If it doesn't jump, you have solved the
problem. Otherwise change the cruciform and inspect the gear shims.
Procedure
Step 1
Step 2
Step 4
Step 5
Step 7
The shim washer is incredibly important to the operation of the gears. You should make
sure that this item is sound before closing the engine. To test the space use two feeler
guage tools and place them under the shim washer. The allowable slack limit is 0.50mm
(0.020 in). Oversizes are: Stock - 2.05mm (0.081in), 1st oversize - 2.20mm (0.087in),
2nd oversize - 2.35mm (0.093in), 3rd oversize - 2.50mm (0.098in), 4th oversize 2.65mm
(0.104in). Once everything is in good condition, replace all the gears, the washer and
the circlip. Then continue to reassemble the engine cases or continue to fix problems in
the engine.
One of the more tricky cable installations on a Vespa would have to be the gear selector cables. if the
cables do not appear to be broken, but the shifting is weird or not working, carefully inspect the gearbox
for damage (namely the selector arm as they may snap, there are more details on this below). I have
found a fairly good way to approach this task. You will need a 7 and an 8 mm spanner, two pairs of
Visegrips (one needlenose preferrably), a set of cables and a friend to help. If only one cable is broken, I
find it easier to just start fresh and do both cables while I'm at it. There is a single screw at the bottom of
the flywheel that hold the selector box cover onto the engine. Undo this screw and pull the cover aside to
reveal the Selector Box Parts. Tighten the slack adjusters so they protrude into the selector box.
Once you are into the gearbox begin by undoing the cable nipples using two small spanners. Pull the
nipples clear of the box and set them aside. To replace the cables on a P series you will have to open the
headset. To open the headset, undo the 4 screws on the bottom of the headset and lift it as much as you
can without yanking on it. push the speedometer cable (large cable right near the front wheel) toward the
rear of the bike and the headset cover will pop straight up. you should now be able to see the inside of the
headset. Apply a peice of duct tape to the speedometer cable, just below the locking ring (the thing
attached to the speedometer under the headset). Unscrew the locking ring and allow it to rest on the duct
tape (that way it won't fall into the fork tube). The headset will still be retained by wires. you can usually
flip the headset back and work unimpeded, but if you know where everything goes, you may choose to
unhook all of the little wires. There is a disc on the inside of the headset attached to the end of the gear
selector handlebar. there should be two cables in this disc. These cables are the gear selector cables and
they run down to the gear box. To renew these cables, carefully prise them from their seating in the disc
and pull the cable straight out. Once one cable is out, replace it by feeding it down the same outer cable
and then move onto the next, so they don't get out of order at the gearbox. Once both cables are seated
in the disc, set the handlebar so the dots line up. Don't bother closing the headset yet.
Go back down to the gearbox. Have a friend hold the handlebar so the dots line up. Begin by pushing the
nipples onto the cables. Grab both cables with a Visegrips and pull on them fairly hard. While they're tight,
get your friend to move the handlebar up and down. This will quickly take up all the slack in the cables.
Once you're done taking up slack, get your friend to set it back to the two dots. Turn the batwing to
neutral by hand while gently rolling the bike back and forth. Neutral can be identified as a raised area
between 1st (closest to the engine) and 2nd on the batwing (the bike will roll smoothly when in neutral.
Get the needlenose visegrips and push the nose of the pliers up against the cable nipple as hard as
possible while still pulling on the cable with the other set of Visegrips. The nipple should slide into the
batwing slot. Once it's firmly pressed into the slot, clamp the needlenose visegrips onto the cable so that
they continue to press into the back of the nipple. Tighten the nipple using the wrenches. Do the same
procedure for the other cable.
The cables should now be set. The acid test is to roll the bike back and forth about 1m each direction and
try to change gears. If the bike makes it to first and fourth gear, you're done. If it doesn't, try the whole
prodecure again until it is right. You shouldn't have to use the slack adjusters. Once you finish,
reassemble the headset by reversing the order of disassembly. Once you're good at this procedure, it
takes about 15 minutes. At first it will take hours of cursing and hate - so be patient. Usually when you're
about to give up, it suddenly works.
The selector arm is a small cast piece of metal that forms the physical connection to the gear selector rod
inside the engine. Since this part is under a lot of stress it may be vulnerable to cracking off due to lack of
gearbox oil, sudden stress from the selector rod (usually from jumping out of gear) and bad casting. A key
sign that this may be a problem is if the handlebar moves far past 1st gear without engaging a gear. If you
notice this behaviour kill the engine and undo the 11mm bolts that hold the gearbox to the engine. gently
pull the gearbox clear of the engine (there is a paper gasket between the selector box and the engine
case). If indeed the selector arm has broken and you are in the middle of no where, try to find some brass
or aluminum wire and make multiple wraps around the selector arm and ratchet shaft as an emergency
repair. Shift as little as possible and try to get safely home. The selector arm usually snaps at the ring
around the ratchet shaft and it can only be repaired only by ordering a whole new part. If you have a worn
cruciform that jumps out of gear, you are at risk for this piece snapping off.
When ordering new parts, request a selector arm and a new tapered pin, as the pin is likely to be difficult
to refit. you will need a ballpeine hammer and a small punch suited to the size of the hole. You may also
need a reamer (taper tool) suitable to the size of the hole. Start by removing the cabling and get the box
into a well lit area. On a wooden surface, tap out the pin as per the top picture. It will fall out completely
with only a small bit of force. Crank the selector arm far past the fourth gear position as in the diagram.
with the pin removed, slowly pull up on the batwing and place the new ratchet arm on the shaft. Line up
the holes and punch the new pin back into place as shown in the bottom diagram. The pin should go all
the way in. If it stops, adjust the position of the selector arm on the ratchet shaft and try again. If you
cannot get it in, use a small reamer to redefine the taper on the new part. Once you have reamed the hole
a small amount, refit the pin and try to bang it in. keep adjusting the taper until it will allow the pin to fit
snugly in the hole. Once you are done, refit the selctor box and cabling (see above for instructions). Drain
and fill your gearbox and replace the gasket if neccessary.
Ratchet System Troubleshooting
The ratchet system should rarely need attention but problems can arise if the spring is deformed or the
roller pops out of the ratchet arm. To remedy this problem, simply order new parts and replace the old
ones. The ratchet arm is held in by a small flat headed screw. Uncrew the screw carefully and catch the
spring if it goes flying. Replace any malfuntioning part and reverse the order of disassembly to fix the
problem. The batwing is force fit to a shaft that is precisely positioned. if there is any wear to the batwing
or ratchet shaft, replace both items. you will have to remove the small tapered pin on the selector arm to
effect repairs to this item.
With the exhaust broken apart, we can identify a u-bend pipe that goes from the exhaust stub on the
cylinder to a baffle (in this case, a fluted cylinder). There is a convexed piece of metal spot welded to the
end of the baffle to direct the charge out the fluted sides or the baffle rather than let it flow straight
through. Depending on how these baffles are made, there will be a difference in how the engine operates
at certain rev ranges. This is probably as tuned as a stock exhaust get. If the piece of metal falls out of the
baffle, it will make a tonne of noise inside the expansion box and may cause a slight loss of performance.
If you shake the exhaust and hear a pronounced rattling, the spot weld holding the blocker has likely
failed.
The inside of the expansion box is just an area for exhaust gases to occupy during engine cycles. The
area in this box forms an air column that reacts to the various changes in pressure caused by the
operation of the engine. On the right hand side is a piece of sheet metal that extends from the top of the
expansion box to the bottom. The piece of metal has 4 evenly spaced holes to promote the escape of
waste gases. The gases enter a smaller chamber behind the wall and escape through the tailpipe to the
outside.
To restore the exhaust, you need to get a carbon dissolving agent like sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner)
and pour it, unconcentrated, into the exhaust. The longer it sits the more of the build up will disappear.
There is nothing to really come loose as you can see, but don't stick a coathanger down the exhaust,
because you may damage it more than help it. A liquid cleaner should be sufficient. There is a wire mesh
that lines the expansion box. I have no idea why they put this in other than to stop heat buildup, but avoid
trying to decoke the exhaust using a torch as it may damage this mesh and cause some problems.
Procedure
Step 1
Step 2
Step 2
Step 4
Procedure
Welp, that pretty much wraps it up for now. The next step would be to take out the
bearings. I tend to like to take it to a shop with the proper tools for that kind of stuff. The
last thing you want to damage is a bearing or bearing race. However, The clutch side
bearing is held in by two circlips and case pressure. Undo both circlips, noting where
they came from. Then you can bash the crap out of it. Same goes for the hub bearing.
The trick is getting the needle roller style bearings out without destroying them. You
need a special puller for them; however, you could destroy it and buy a new one (since
you're probably going to do that anyway). I find the kickstart area engine stud tends to
rust like crazy. You should replace that every time as well. If there is case damage like
large cracks, you can either take it to a welder (who welds aluminum) or you can invest
in matched cases. When the cases are stripped, it might be a great idea to clean them.
For about $20 you can put them in a good ultrasonic parts washer at a machine shop,
and for about $7 you can buy a huge can of engine degreaser and go at it with a wire
brush and a rag. Really go over every part looking for play, especially the crankshaft.
Hold the crank webs in one hand and the con rod in another. See what kind of play you
can get. If the play is huge (like a joystick), or it makes grinding noises, you need a new
big end bearing, which is an expensive repair. You should also have your crank runout
tested at a machine shop to make sure it's not warped, especially if you don't know the
history of the motor. Check for gouges and flecks of metal in the cases and find their
source. I wish you luck with tearing down your motor. Check other articles on the page
for other stuff to do in the meantime :) I'll have a full rebuild suite soon.