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 The Evolution of Immunology
James Maskell with Aristo Vojdani, PhD, MSc, MT
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understand that there was a lot of for ten years or eight years, I saw
microbes in the body, more than we then, at that point, that a lot of their
thought. And the majority of them understanding of the role of the gut
were helping us to be healthy. and the role of microbes was now
being vindicated by science.
James: Hello! And welcome back to
Looking back on that, obviously,
The Evolution of Medicine Summit.
this is probably something that you Is this the trend that you see that
This is your host James Maskell. And
were aware of a lot longer before practitioners understand that
I’m really excited to have an expert
that. So can you just talk us through the strategies and things that
in the field of immunology and
this new understanding? And it they’ve been using are now being
microbiology today to talk about
seems like it must be the most understood and vindicated by
the evolution of immunology. Dr.
exciting time to be in the field of mainstream science?
Aristo Vojdani has been doing this
immunology and microbiology.
for a very long time. He is a PhD
Dr. Vojdani: Yes. I heard an expert
in immunology and microbiology,
Dr. Vojdani: Absolutely. This is in alternative medicine during past
has done a number of postdoctoral
the most exciting time. And your thirty years. And they were talking
trainings, and holds a number
question is taking me also back to about this almost thirty years ago.
of academic positions, including
1965 when I took my first course And so we have to give them a lot
currently at UCLA.
in immunology and, of course, at of credit for those who were talking
the same time, other courses in about gut dysbiosis twenty-five
And today we’re going to talk about
microbiology. I became in love with years ago, thirty years ago, and it’s
the evolution of immunology. And
the field of immunology. Also, the relationship to different diseases.
this is a topic that potentially is
professor at that time told us, “The So they were really ahead of their
something that’s out of the realms
future of medicine is depending— time. Or they were not really ahead
of something that’s interesting to
the future of development and of their time. Maybe the other part
the general members of the public.
progress in medicine—is going of the medicine was behind!
But it is becoming more and more
to depend on immunology and
important because the science on
microbiology.” And absolutely, he James: Yeah. Maybe that’s a bit
immunology and the majority of
was correct. And now the journal more like it. But there was this time
the immune system is changing
articles by thousands are coming in American medicine between 1913
significantly. So who better to be
out—started almost ten years and the year 2000 where we really
able to speak about that change in
ago—looking and dealing with the got away from this understanding
the exciting developments in this
importance of gut microbiota in of leaky gut and gut dysbiosis. But
field than Dr. Vojdani. So thank you
human health and diseases and my understanding is just before
for being with us today, doctor.
immune functions and so forth. penicillin came out in the early 1910,
1913, around then there was some
Dr. Vojdani: Thank you, James, to
James: Absolutely. I mean, the gut understanding of gut dysbiosis by
have me on your program.
microbiome…As soon as I saw it, scientists at that point, right?
for me, it was the cover of Scientific
James: It’s great to have you here.
American in 2012—June 2012— Dr. Vojdani: Yes. In 1903, the
where I saw that it was reporting famous Metchnikoff introduced the
So 2011, we have the NIH study on
on the human microbiome. And I terminology of gut dysbiosis, 1908.
the human microbiome project.
was like this is something that those And so when we talk overall about
And so for the first time, the
holistic doctors, functional doctors, immunology, even in the field of
general public and science and the
naturopaths that I’ve worked with immunology, the field of mucosal
greater medical system started to
immunology was ignored for more percent of total immunity comes just information generally in the
than a hundred years. Only in from the gut and this mucosal body, that there’s almost no reason
the past ten/fifteen years with immunity. It sounds like people why as medicine involves the gut
advancement of the microbiome would be missing the majority of needs to be really associated with
and all of that, the field of mucosal our defenses if they weren’t looking all forms of medicine.
immunology also flourished. at this.
Dr. Vojdani: Yes. I’m a hundred
Now, we have a Journal called Dr. Vojdani: They will continue percent agreeing with you. And I’ll
Mucosal Immunology. There are doing the same thing as they did introduce another terminology.
international meetings about during the past thirty years to They’re telling us that usually
mucosal immunology. And why? individuals in alternative medicine they are usually saying, “You are
Because they teach us about who were the pioneers in the field what you eat.” Why do they tell us
the importance of the gut in talking about gut dysbiosis and you are what you eat? Because if
many, many areas of the body’s its relationship to the health and you are on vegetarian diets, you
physiology. For example, we know diseases. So the bottom line is this have different microbiota. If you
that the gut is playing a role in that because they did not read or eat more meat or carbohydrates,
oral tolerance, the mechanism they’re not reading these scientific you are going to have different
that’s protecting us against foreign journals in the field of mucosal microbiota.
material, a mechanism that teaches immunology, they are going to
us to live in harmony with gut dismiss completely this whole idea And so, therefore, if you have
microbiota. Our immune system of gut microbiome playing a role in the kind of diet which causes gut
should not attack our own gut human health and diseases. dysbiosis, gut dysbiosis causes
microbiota. Our immune system overgrowth of bad bacteria. Bad
should not attack the food antigens One of the classical example is bacteria releases endotoxins, which
and proteins and peptides which a joke about fecal transplant, we call them lipopolysaccharides.
we consume. So we call that oral which is really the idea is taking Endotoxins not only causing
tolerance, which is induced by type good bacteria and introducing inflammation in the gut, they
of cells discovered about fifteen it into the body of an individual can open the barrier, the tight
years ago called regulatory T cell. who’s having a problem with the junction proteins. And, therefore,
gut, gut inflammation and other undigested proteins and peptides,
The other part, which is important disorders, including metabolic the lipopolysaccharides or
for gut immune function—mucosal syndrome. But they will make a endotoxins themselves can get into
immune system— development of joke out of that, rather than looking the circulation.
mucosal immune system, secretory at the mechanism how based on
IgA. How much secretory IgA is immunology and microbiology, Now, the inflammation from the gut
playing role in preventing entry how this good bacteria is going goes to the circulation. And even if
of undigested food and bacterial to work to change the balance we don’t take care of inflammation
toxins to the submucosa and between T helper-1 and T helper-2 in the gut, LPS can open the blood-
then regional lymph nodes and and regulate the immune system brain barriers. And here is the
circulation, and prevention of and the mucosa and, therefore, connection between the gut and
autoimmunities? The gut is playing preventing all those disorders the brain. I’m sure when you talk to
a role in the establishment of associated with GI disorder. some of those psychiatrists, they
barrier integrity. And, finally, the gut told you about that microbiota
microbiome also is playing a role in James: Yeah. So over the course can change behavior. Microbiota
overall immune system. We call that of this whole summit, we’ve heard can change also patient clinical
systemic immunity, in particular, from people in fields as diverse as symptomatology of chronic fatigue
immune function. psychiatry and endocrinology and and fibromyalgia.
neurology and gastroenterology.
James: Yeah, that’s amazing! And All of these areas, these have Or a patient with depression. When
that’s really exciting. So could you seemingly in the past been separate the group in Germany found that
give an overview? If someone was from our understanding of the gut. lipopolysaccharides and antibodies
trained in immunology, but not But it seems to me from all of these against lipopolysaccharides can
in mucosal immunology, what experts that the gut is playing such be detected in patients with
would they be missing if they a major role in the inflammation depression, major depression. If
didn’t understand that? Because and the process of upregulating and you repair the gut, if you give them
my understanding is that eighty downregulating inflammation and probiotics and repair the barriers
and reduce the endotoxin load, methods of delivery, whether atrophy, hypertension, mood
then also you repair the blood brain it’s a cesarean or natural birth, and behavior disorder. Hormonal
barrier and, therefore, depression nutritional factors—breastfeeding, factors also affect the gut
will go away. bottle feeding, and epigenetic microbiota. Why? Because the gut
factors—all of these have been microbiome, the gut bacteria have
James: Wow! The evolution of implicated in development of receptors for hormones. That’s why
medicine, it seems that we’re healthy gut and its microbial stress and hormones can affect the
moving to a stage where we symbionts. And any changes in gut microbiota. So we have to pay
understand the connectedness of gut microbial composition in early attention to all of that and their
all the systems rather than all the life—this is very important—can influence on the gut microbiome,
separateness. And that’s a perfect influence risk for developing which is so important in human
example of that. And actually disease later in life. health and diseases.
just around this time, we have
the launch of the new journal on And so when we talk about extrinsic James: Yeah. And so what you’ve
the gut and the brain. It’s been environmental factors, we have to laid out there is basically almost any
a huge connection. We’ve had pay attention to antibiotics because symptom that you have or any sort
neurologists speaking on it. We antibiotics are going to affect our of disease basis of a disease, you
have psychiatrists. So it’s certainly gut microbiome. The diet, whether should be looking at the gut as a
something that’s more and more carbohydrate or vegetarian diet primary way of dealing with it.
and more. or protein diet based, all can have
positive and negative effects on But my understanding also is
So what you were referring to our health. Stress. And is extremely that even if you don’t have the
earlier was leaky gut. And that’s important. numbers to see the disease, this
a terminology, again, that when could also be going on because I
the naturopaths and other holistic I’m sure that you heard about some know with the leaky gut, a certain
doctors were using it five, ten, famous experiment in different amount of times there’s like this
fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, thirty universities. The professor who predictive autoimmunity where
years ago, were seen as talking was the conducting experiments in you don’t quite have autoimmune
an unscientific language. Just for mice who were giving them certain disease, but you’re on your way to
everyone’s that’s listening, because diet in a certain environment. And developing it. So I’m sure there are
there are probably doctors who are the majority of those mice were a lot of Americans out there that are
listening who probably think that it’s developing type I diabetes. So on their way to having one or more
unscientific, could you just take us what happened that this professor of these autoimmune diseases. But
through your the literature or the moved to another university in they just don’t have the symptoms
science that’s showing that this is a different state. So he tried to to put them in that category yet. Is
real phenomenon? And the impact repeat the same experiments. No that fair?
that it’s having through the pathway results. What happened? Because
that you just mentioned and other change of environment, stress, and Dr. Vojdani: Yes, James. Forty-five
pathways? change of microbiota, changed the years of my work ended up with
outcome of his experiment. That’s the most important development,
Dr. Vojdani: I’ll be very happy why that kind of thing, that kind of which is my passion is called
to go through this. And the kind experiments now open completely predictive antibodies, which I
of articles I’m reading about a new field of studies. published several articles in this
this subject, as you know, you field. And predictive antibodies are
mentioned already Science, Nature So the environmental factors, antibodies detected in the blood
Medicine, Journal of Immunology, stress, all of that together can or saliva five to ten years before
Journal of Microbiology. These are affect the gut microbiota and its the onset of disease development.
the first class of journals which talk implication for human health. So By looking at those biomarkers,
about this. any disruption in gut microbiota, we can make changes in the gut
which we call the gut dysbiosis, microbiota, change in the mucosal
And, for example, I have one of the can lead to a variety of different immune system, change in the gut
articles from Science talk about diseases including inflammatory dysbiosis and gut integrity, change
the influence of gut microbiota bowel disease, colon cancer, in overall immune function. We
on human health is continuous irritable bowel syndrome, gastric can prevent the onset of many
from birth to old age. And early ulcers, liver disease, obesity, autoimmune diseases, which affect
environmental factors such as metabolic syndrome, asthma, about fifty-three million Americans,
and about ten percent of the world if they knew that only this year that represent the population in the
population. about twenty different articles U.S. Just a small example. We found
that I read, published in scientific that twenty-five percent of those
So that’s really my passion. Early journal, connecting the oral made antibodies against gluten.
detection is the answer. We cannot bacteria, such as porphyromonas About twenty-five percent made
wait until the patient will have full- gingivalis to rheumatoid arthritis antibodies against milk.
blown disease and just treat them because porphyromonas gingivalis
for their symptoms. And they will be is secreting a toxin. The toxin Recent article just is going to be
on medication for the rest of their gets in the gut, changing the gut published in about two weeks in
lives. But if we’ll pay attention to microbiome, changing the gut Journal of Applied Toxicology. I looked
the root cause of diseases, which permeability, causing leaky gut at antibodies against different
are environmental triggers such syndrome. Now the bacterial xenobiotics, including bisphenol-A,
as infection in the mouth, dietary toxin gets into the body, activating aflatoxin, parabens, and many
proteins and peptides, correct certain lymphocytes. And then other chemicals, which all of us are
diet, and many toxic chemicals— those activated lymphocytes can exposed to on daily basis which
xenobiotics—which all the above get to the joint, plus the toxin in the can affect our got microbiome.
can affect the gut microbiome, joint, causing such inflammatory And found about fifteen to twenty-
and the gut microbiome, which is response, which after five to ten five percent of healthy population
connected to overall human health years will end up with full-blown making antibodies against these
and diseases could be prevented if rheumatoid arthritis, which the xenobiotics.
we’re paying more attention to the rheumatologist are taking care
gut microbiome and environmental of them. What is the meaning of that from
triggers. immunological point of view?
But if we’ll detect that early stage That we are exposed to all these
James: So if you got fifty million where the patient is having chemicals. Not in every person
Americans that have autoimmune problems with the gum and will these chemicals are going to be
disease right now, if you added in go to the dentist, will get rid of metabolized and secreted from
all of the people that have these that, that way we can prevent full- our system. Unfortunately, in
predictive antibodies, how many blown rheumatoid arthritis in many about twenty-five percent, these
people would that be? patients. This is just example. chemicals and their metabolites
form a complex with human
Dr. Vojdani: I think at least one James: Yeah. So that’s a great tissue the results of that will be
out of two will detect predictive example. And I think it really brings autoimmunity.
antibody. home the importance of one,
understanding the body as this So the only choice we have
James: And that would explain why holistic entity, which it’s all added because we detect these predictive
these numbers of autoimmune because I’m pretty sure there are antibodies, these antibodies in such
diseases are skyrocketing. And one no rheumatologists who are having a high percentage of population,
of the reasons maybe why we don’t a good relationship with the dentist try to remove the triggers. If it’s
realize that it is skyrocketing is that or referring to a dentist. But it infection, we have to go to the
rheumatoid arthritis gets treated seems like if we want to get the dentist. If it’s in the gut, we have to
by a rheumatologist. And irritable root cause of these diseases and pay attention to the gut immune
bowel syndrome gets treated by a really reverse them or deal with the function. If these are the chemicals,
gastroenterologist. And so you’re at problems at the root cause, we’re we have to remove them from the
a point where it doesn’t look like it’s going to have to develop these kind environment. But, unfortunately,
the same disease. But from what of relationships. the trends—the way the lifestyle
I’m hearing you saying is that just is going—we are increasing and
because of the cause factors, it is Dr. Vojdani: Yes. Absolutely. And introducing more toxic chemicals to
the same disease just playing out back to the predictive antibodies, our environment and, therefore, to
in different systems for different James. I have done some research the population as a whole all over
people, right? by looking at block of 1,000 the world.
so-called healthy subjects. We
Dr. Vojdani: Yes. If really bought or purchased the blood James: Absolutely. So can you just
gastroenterologists and from different companies, which take us through like the things that
rheumatologists—especially, I’m screened the patients to be healthy we need to be avoiding if we want
talking now to the rheumatologist— based on some testing. But to me to keep a healthy microbiome?
Because it seems like from attention to the diet because diet antibodies against soy or corn,
everything that we’ve heard, the can alter and change the human then it is wise to remove those
number one thing that you could do got microbiome within days. And items from the diet because those
to keep yourself healthy and prevent the article I have in front of me, in proteins are not compatible with
all of these different diseases is to five days they could find changes in gut microbiota of that individual.
focus on making sure that your gut gut microbiome by changing from
has a good solid microbiome, that carbohydrate to vegetarian diet. So That shows the gut microbiota
it’s deep and broad. There’s a wide that’s number one. and the enzymes and all the whole
range of microbes in there. What system together cannot digest
are the things that we’re doing James: So can we just chat a little those proteins to become peptides
as a society that are causing the bit more about that because I know and then to amino acids. And,
problems? And what can we do to that there are certain foods that therefore, the undigested peptide
get back to normal? are prebiotics that help with the again can get in circulation. We
development of the good bacteria. make antibodies against them. So
Dr. Vojdani: Yeah. Thank you. First What are some of those foods? it’s logical, based on those testing
of all, there is no one formula which to remove those environmental
is going to work for everybody. Dr. Vojdani: Those which contain triggers. In this case, the diet three
Let’s make that clear. But I can fructooligosaccharides. components, which we make
talk overall. Why one formula is antibodies against them.
not going to work for everybody James: And then we’ve had people
because we have each one of us we talking about things like asparagus So gluten is one of them. Milk
have different gut microbiome. But and other green vegetables like is another one. But in some
the good news is that the articles that. Is that sort of on line? individuals could be completely
I read that change in the diet can different foods to be removed from
rapidly change or alter the human Dr. Vojdani: Yeah. I have no doubts their diet.
got microbiome. those are the one and broccoli. Lots
and lots of vegetables are really, James: So that’s the beauty of
So number one, change your diet. If overall. seeing a practitioner who can
you have problem with gut immune help you to put together like a
function and overall with immunity, James: Well, I know you’re an doctor who can help you to put
change your diet. For example, if immunologist and not a nutritionist. again maybe an elimination diet or
you are eating too much meat, add So I’ll leave more questions about something like that so that you can
more vegetables to your diet. Add that to the nutritionists. see what the most important thing
more fruits to our diet. However, is for you?
here I want to add one more But let’s continue on. So you said
item that to be on organic diet is the diet. Are there any other diet Dr. Vojdani: Yeah. And also then we
extremely, extremely important. things that we should be watching have to look at infectious agents. If
out for because I listened to The they, for example, make antibodies
An article I read in Environmental Gluten Summit last year with Tom against H.pylori or mycoplasma,
Health Perspectives. They took a O’Bryan. And it was pretty clear or they make antibodies against
few kids. They put them on normal that in a decent number of people, Yersinia eneterocolitica, it is wise
diets. They looked at pesticides in gluten is causing the degeneration to pay attention to these bacteria
the urine. They found significant of the lining of the mucosal and the to treat them. And hopefully that
elevation in pesticides in the urine gut integrity, right? will reverse the effect on the gut
of that group of children who tested. microbiome. So dietary proteins,
Then they switched them to five Dr. Vojdani: Yes. Absolutely. That’s infection—whether it’s in the gut
days of organic diet. They could why I, when I give a lecture, in the or in the mouth—we have to pay
not detect those chemicals, those beginning and at the end of my attention to that.
pesticides in their urine. They put talk, I have this triangle saying that
them back on normal diets one detect, remove, and repair. So And, finally, we have to pay
more time. They could detect exactly if a patient is making antibodies attention to the xenobiotics, all
the same chemicals in their urine. like those which I was talking these chemicals that on daily basis
So, yes, we can recommend your about—the thousand individuals— without paying attention. If you go
changing the diet. But we have to twenty-five percent of them make now to any coffee shop, they give
make sure that diet is going to be antibodies against gluten, make you a cup of coffee cup. The cup
organic diet. So number one is pay antibodies against milk, make of coffee is given served to you in
a paper cup coated with a layer of because I know that’s a big way More and more doctors are seeing
bisphenal A. And all of us, we are in which we’re disrupting the gut the ability through functional and
blinded and using that without microbiome. integrative medicine to get to the
thinking. We are drinking from cause and deal with the cause. So
plastic bottles. So we are loaded on Dr. Vojdani: Yes. Thank you very they can help their patients remove
daily basis with many chemicals. much asking about antibiotics. To these environmental toxins and
That’s why 700 different chemicals me that’s a category of chemicals. remove the infection or deal with
in 1987 were detected in the body It’s not different from any other the infection and change their diet
fat of people who were tested in chemicals. James, for your listeners, in a positive way.
America. And there are more. By I would like to introduce an
now we probably have several article recently I wrote for very For the doctors who are listening
thousands in our issue. This is the special issue of the Journal called who want to do better medicine
body burden of chemicals. Autoimmune Disease, which I’m the and want to help their patients
editor of that special issue. Eleven more quickly, what are some tips or
So we have to try to minimize. So different articles written by different tools or other things that you can
healthy diet, organic diet. Remove researchers in the world. provide for them to help them to
the infection as much as possible or get better results for their patients
treat the infection. And, finally, try This article, which is the leading and get their patients back to a
to remove the xenobiotic from your article written by me, it’s entitled, healthy optimum as quickly as
environment and from your diet. “A Potential Link Between possible?
Environmental Triggers and
Do you know that if you take Autoimmunity.” So they can read Dr. Vojdani: Excellent question!
shower and put shampoo on your about this whole issue we were My message to them, yes, my
body or whatever and you wash talking in the past five minutes friends, although I know you guys
your hands with soap, you are about: the role of environmental are very busy. You don’t have time.
introducing at least ten to fifteen to triggers in immune function and But, please, if you have any extra
twenty different chemicals into your autoimmunity. And so Autoimmune time go to scientific journals such
own system? Disease, 2014, under Vojdani. as Mucosal Immunology, Nature
Medicine, Science & Nature and
And so this is what’s happening. James: Yeah. We’ll definitely take a read about some of these articles,
We have to pay attention to the look at that. And this is another part fascinating articles, about the role
role of environmental triggers in of the evolution of medicine is that of gut microbiome in human health
the induction of immune disorders. this kind of information is not just and diseases.
Otherwise, these numbers are available to doctors. Everyone can
going to be increased from year find this information. It’s available. If you don’t have time, then at least
to year. And we are witnessing an And you can listen to this kind of you can find three or four days’
epidemic of allergies, epidemics of information here today. time and go to functional medicine
autism, epidemics of ADD, ADHD meeting, other alternative medicine
and autoimmunities. So, doc, there’s patients on here meetings, and educate yourself
who are listening to this, I’m sure about the role of environmental
James: Absolutely. So those who are really rethinking the way triggers, gut microbiota in immunity
environmental triggers can be diet that they are going to go about and health. And by doing so, you
and can also be toxicity. Are there looking after their symptoms and a are going to help your patient
other environmental triggers that whole array of types of symptoms, significantly and prevent many
lead to this or are those the major whether they be manifesting in diseases at early stage as possible.
two categories? the gut or in any other part of the
body because this inflammation James: That’s so great. And I
Dr. Vojdani: There are three: and the dysbiosis and the leaky certainly agree with that. I’ve had
infection. gut is so crucial to everything. But some conversations over the
I’m sure there are also doctors and summer with people that are
James: Yeah, and infection, as well. other practitioners that are listening actually on the cutting edge of some
that are interested in doing great of the citizen science with regard
Dr. Vojdani: The three components medicine and really getting to the to microbes in the gut. So there are
and toxicity. cause. ways that you can go and measure
your own gut microbes and see
James: What about the antibiotics exactly what’s going on in the gut.
 And some of that information is N-acetylcysteine. Let’s not forget and now good. And what is good
looking at, “How do you actually that the same cell I called that and what is bad is changing all the
develop a really solid microbiome?” regulatory T cells, which regulate time. And science is changing. And
And maybe you could just comment the mucosal immune system, which if nothing else, it’s a lesson in the
on this because it seems to me is responsible for establishment interconnectedness of everything.
from what you just said, yes, a of oral tolerance. And if there’s a
doctor or a dentist can help to deal break in oral tolerance can result in How do you think big science is
with the infection. But it seems to autoimmunity. going to cope in the ten or fifteen
me like the majority of our ability years to deal with learning that the
as patients or a patient’s ability to So the same type of cells, regulatory body is an interconnected system,
avoid autoimmune disease is really T cells, have receptors for two given that their paradigm is so
taking responsibility for the diet and vitamins: vitamin D and vitamin reductionist in nature?
the toxins, right? A. So, therefore, when we take
supplements such as vitamin A Dr. Vojdani: James, I’m very happy
Dr. Vojdani: Yes. Absolutely. and vitamin D, we can activate our that you asked that question. And
regulatory T cells to regulate the you asked me. You put a question
James: But it also, in some of this mucosal immune function that’s to a scientist. And so, therefore,
research that I’ve been reading, it regular to the microbiome. And, the question is not about medical
said that the number one way… therefore, it can prevent leaky gut doctors because in my opinion, the
Well, there are lots of different ways syndrome and autoimmunities. field of science is ahead of medicine
that you can get good microbiome. And so those are few of many. Of by thirty years.
You can take probiotics. You can eat course, the clinicians, they have an
food that has probiotics in it. array of list of different items in And, so, unfortunately, all these
addition to that. But to me, those articles you and I talked about
But what was really interesting to are the most important ones: them. All these issues, we talked
me as I saw that they were saying L-glutamine, probiotics, and vitamin about them in past twenty, thirty
that the people with the best A, vitamin D. And there are many minutes, only small percentage
microbiomes were people that were other nutritional factors such as of clinicians are familiar with.
always in nature. People who lived boswellia, curcumin, which is anti- But, scientists, if they read these
on a farm or had a pet or got into inflammatory, and many, many journals, if they do research in
nature regularly because just by others that I’m sure the clinicians the field, there is no doubt they
lying on the grass or putting your know more about them than me. will come to conclusion, this
hands in the dirt, you’re getting is fascinating field, extremely
access to a whole range of microbes James: Absolutely. Yeah, there’s a important field, the gut is
that end up making it into the gut. lot of good stuff out there. I’d love connected almost to every single
And it’s a really effective way. to just ask you about science, in system in our body.
general, because you’re a scientist.
That, again, seems like another You’re not a doctor seeing patients. And, for example, here I have
step where medicine is evolving in But you’re in the field of science. an article from Nature Medicine
the way that that’s not a medical And it seems to me from someone in front of me. “Gut Feeling: The
intervention. That’s just going to the who’s not in the scientific world Emerging Biology of Gut-Brain
park or getting outside and getting that just the pathway that you Communication.” So this area is
into nature. Is that along the lines just described, it’s a complicated going to flourish more and more.
of what you’re seeing as far as like parkway. It’s a number of things And hopefully, my hope is that not
how do we actually improve the happening. It seems to me that only the scientist will became aware
microbiome once we know that it’s in this quest to really understand of this. I hope this information
suboptimal? truth, we’ve gone so far down the through different avenues,
path of reductionism that now that such as functional medicine,
Dr. Vojdani: You said it all, we really need to understand the alternative medicine, will get to the
actually. So the bottom line is that body as a holistic entity, it’s going to mainstream of medicine so they
we have to pay attention to the be difficult to retool science to be will be able to use some of these
environmental triggers that you able to really understand this. information for treatment of their
mentioned. Also, we can support Like the gut microbiome is a perfect patients and prevention of many
our gut microbiome not just by diet. training tool to help everyone to see disorders, which affects one out of
We can take probiotics. We can take that holism exists because these two Americans.
supplements such as glutamine, microbes that we thought were bad
James: Yeah. Absolutely. It’s such holistic in nature. The body does human health and diseases.
a massive crisis that it warrants. have an interdependence with all
But one of the things that I think is the different systems. And now it’s James: Yeah. Absolutely. I
exciting is that you have people who the time of this kind of practitioner completely agree. And thank you
will be listening to this now, and to shine. for saying that. We’re all working
they’re going to seek out doctors together. And the problem couldn’t
that understand or are ahead of And so I’m really excited about be any more real or huge or
this information. And so it seems driving consumer demand to those appropriate. Autoimmune disease
to me that these kinds of summits types of practitioners so that more and chronic disease is on a pathway
or these kinds of events really and more doctors realize they’ve to bankrupt not just America, but
help to accelerate this evolution of got to get on the ball. They’ve got to every economy that is westernizing
medicine. start reading these journals. They’ve and getting the western chronic
got to understand microbial and diseases.
You mentioned organic foods mucosal immunity.
earlier. Why are there so many And the truth is, although the
more organic foods now? Why does Dr. Vojdani: Yes. A hundred doctor is important, the role of
the grocery store that I used to go percent agree with you. And there doctor is less important than in
to in Georgia—rural Georgia in 2005 are some lights out there. For the past. Because as you just said
that had no organics—I go back example, last week or ten days ago, today, if we can improve the diet,
eight years later. And it’s got tons of the Institute of Medicine came out get rid of the toxins, reduce the
organics. It’s because of consumer with a list of the foods that they call stress, work with the microbiome,
demand. The consumers realize them the Dirty Dozen. And then the we can really reduce our predictive
that this is important. They start other fifteen, which are healthier to autoimmunity. We can reduce
demanding it. And then it sends eat. And so if we read those kind of autoimmune. We can reverse
these price signals and information articles, we find out even washing chronic and autoimmune diseases.
signals out to the rest of the fruits by high pressure, we are not
industry that this is something going to remove the pesticides And although the doctor might be
important. and herbicides from the fruits and providing some guidance in that
vegetables. Therefore, the choice situation, it’s more on the patient.
Now, it’s the same thing with this. is organic. And that article very It’s what the patient chooses to do
If you have a whole network of elegantly was written. And I highly in the 167 hours a week that they’re
functional medicine doctors—which recommend that to read that not in the doctor’s office. And so we
we have in Revive Primary Care— article, as well. have a real opportunity to build a
where you can go. And there’s one new type of medicine that’s based
almost in every zip code now. If And, finally, I would like to give you on patient empowerment, rather
thousands of patients start wanting a lot of credit. This kind of summit than medical patriarchy.
to get this type of medicine, then you guys are putting together,
you’re sending price signals out to and other colleagues, which I Dr. Vojdani: That’s right! That’s
the rest of medicine. And it forces have been interviewed for in the right, James.
everyone to catch up. past few months, Dr. O’Bryan
and others extremely, extremely James: Well, look, I really appreciate
And to me, this is an exciting time. are educating thousands and your details today. For those
You said it was an exciting time thousands of people. And if even doctors who are interested in
to be in science and immunology. these individuals are not, majority learning more about your work
But as a result, it’s an exciting of them are not medical doctors, or finding out more about it or
time to be in medicine. Because I patients can take this information patients, what’s the best way to find
grew up, I was definitely the weird to their doctors. out about what you’re doing or to
kid at school who did the natural interact with you?
therapies. My parents were really And that way, the doctors will
into it. And for a long time, these go after these journal articles. Dr. Vojdani: DrAri@msn.com. And
doctors took a lot of abuse from And we hope that will educate my telephone number also is 310-
mainstream medicine because they themselves and try to help their 657-1077.
were not scientific. And they were patients by recognizing that there
quacks. And now here we have a is something called gut dysbiosis James: Awesome! My intention
situation where we’re now starting and gut microbiome, and why gut with this summit is that we shine
to understand that the body is microbiome is so important in a light on people that are ahead
of the curve. And the majority, I as ELISA, microarrays, functional
think, of integrative medicine is MRIs, and many, many more. But,
ahead of the curve. I’d heard from unfortunately, we put too much
so many people that you really had emphasis on the genes, which are
an amazing handle on all of these responsible for about ten percent
areas. And I really appreciate the of the immune disorders.
opportunity to get this information
from you and share it to a wider So, therefore, also we put too
audience. much emphasis also on drug
development and managing the
You can, hopefully, tell from me symptoms of many disorders.
that this is something that I’m What we did not pay attention
passionate about. Our goal with this to prevention of diseases. We
summit is to let people know what’s ignored completely the role
going on and then give them easy of environmental factors or
resources to find practitioners that triggers in various immune
can partner with them to create disorders, including allergies and
long-term health. And I just really autoimmunities.
honor your role in finding this.
I hope, by looking at the evolution
The last question I would ask you of medicine…And today we have all
doctor is, this whole conference has of this technology—all these good
been on the evolution of medicine. scientific journal articles, which are
And it’s been awesome! I’ve asked based on solid science showing the
every doctor that I’ve had on, or importance of gut microbiome, the
scientist, to give me their own mucosal immune system, the gut
perspective on the evolution of barriers in health and diseases—
medicine. And it’s been universally hopefully, clinicians will take
just amazing with what everyone’s advantage of these and use these in
shared. their practice.

From your perspective as a James: Absolutely. That’s a great

scientist, when I say the words answer to the evolution medicine.
“evolution of medicine,” what does
it bring up for you? Dr. Aristo Vojdani, thank you much
for your time this evening. And it’s
Dr. Vojdani: In my own field, I go been great to spend this time with
back to 1965—almost fifty years you. I look forward to many more
ago—which I took the first courses opportunities to accelerate the
in immunology, and then doing my evolution of medicine.
master thesis and PhD between
1969 to ’76, I became instructor of This is The Evolution of Medicine
immunology, teaching immunology Summit. We got great other talks
in the laboratory. for you today and all throughout
the week. We’ve referenced some of
And then we were using testing those already.
such as ring tests, immunodiffusion,
agglutination. And those were very Thank you so much again for being
primitive testing. Today, whatever I on. And we will see you next time.
used to for my PhD, which took me
probably five years to finish, I can Dr. Vojdani: Thank you!
finish it in two months.

So we made a significant advances

in medicine from diagnostic point of
view, different methodologies such
 SuperCharged Immunity
Eric Zielinski, DC with David Jockers, DNM, DC, MS
Click here to watch this interview!
The purpose of this presentation is to convey information.
It is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure your condition or to be a substitute
for advice from your physician or other healthcare professional.

Many people don’t know what that started encountering a lot of

is. It’s a new term for a lot of folks. very challenging cases, advanced
So if you could just explain a little cancers, people with autoimmune
bit about yourself and how you fell diseases that they had to twenty/
into functional medicine and what twenty- five years that had
Dr. Zielinski: Hello, everyone. This your real purpose and life goal are. destroyed a good percentage of
is Dr. Eric Zielinski from DrEricZ. their bodily tissues. And I realized
com. I’m a chiropractor and public Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. You that just lifestyle change along
health researcher who specializes know, I always had a passion for with good quality chiropractic care,
in natural therapies. My passion nutrition and exercise and just as great as that was, just wasn’t
and life’s work is to help people performance in general. Growing enough to really help these people
live the abundant life, which is why up I was an athlete, and I always get over the hump.
I’m extremely honored to co-host wanted to perform better. And
this Essential Oils Summit with my my mom was a naturopath. And And so I went back for continuing
friends Josh Axe and Jill Winger. she was into natural health and education classes and studied a lot
nutrition. And so she would teach of functional medicine. And really
There’s nothing on the planet, in me things like eating kale, which what that is it’s really just a system
my opinion, that is more versatile I hated when I was a teenager. It approach to looking at overall
for everyday use and that promotes actually would benefit me in sports. health. And so we look at really
healing in the body than essential And so I started eating kale and all clinical, when we’re looking at lab
oils. I’m super excited about of a sudden my taste buds changed. work, a lot of it uses blood work and
this session of the Essential Oil I started craving vegetables and urine tests and stool analysis and
Revolution because I’m interviewing super foods. When I got into my things like that. We’re looking at
author of SuperCharged Lifestyle twenties, I started to really just very functional ranges, rather than
Book and functional medicine become super passionate about just clinical ranges.
doctor, Dr. David Jockers. Dr. learning everything I could.
Jockers, I want to invite you and So we’re looking at really tight
welcome you to the call. I got several degrees in nutrition measures on, for example, looking
and exercise science. I went to at hemoglobin to see if somebody
Dr. Jockers: Hey! So great to be chiropractic school, graduated with has an anemic tendency rather
on with you, Eric, and I really love a chiropractic degree, and then got than a full- blown anemia. We’re
the program that you’re putting into clinical practice and started looking at stool analysis to see
on. I know it’s going to help a lot of teaching functional nutrition and what their bacteria, what their
people. really helping people with their microorganism population looks
lifestyle. And I realized that really like in their gut. We’re looking at
Dr. Zielinski: You know, it is, Doc. over the last five/ten years- I’ve food sensitivities, things like that,
It’s unbelievable the lineup that we been in practice now for six years- anything that could be a risk factor
have, and we’re really just humbled the amount of autoimmune disease for inflammation and slow healing
and blessed to have you. You know and chronic degenerative diseases processes in their body. And really
what? For those people who don’t like cancer, diabetes, heart disease. addressing that with nutritional
know you, tell us a little bit about It’s only growing. It’s only going up supplementation, lifestyle,
yourself. and up and up. essential oils- different things like
that, different healing modalities to
And specifically I know that you’ve And according to a lot of my help somebody really regain health
been really focusing on functional mentors, it’s harder and harder and regain a state of balance and
medicine these past few years. to get people well. And so I homeostasis in their body.
Dr. Zielinski: One thing that take out all the FODMAP group. I to react to a pharmaceutical. And
I’ve really appreciated about the don’t know if you have somebody pharmaceuticals, what we do know
functional nutrition approach is it talking about stuff like that, but all is that over 100,000 every single
inherently respects our biochemical these particular types of specific year taking normal dosages of
individuality. And there is no one- carbohydrates. And so you’ve got to pharmaceutical medications.
size-fits-all approach. So, you know, get very, very specific to help people
this wasn’t originally going to be that are in extreme cases. So it’s one of the top leading causes
part of my discussion, but I just of death in America. And so I’m
really feel it’s important for you, And we’ll deal with a lot of not anti- pharmaceuticals. I think
Doc, because I know that you’re individuals that have gone to a they certainly have a place. And
an expert at this. You do not give dozen different doctors. They’ve we’re thankful to live in a country
everyone the same thing. read fifteen different health books. where we have easy access to
They’ve tried every program, and pharmaceuticals. But it should be
When the people come to receive they just haven’t gotten over the down the road, right? Let’s look
chiropractic adjustments and spinal hump and so that’s really where the at lifestyle. Let’s look at how the
care for you, you have x-rays. You rubber hits the road. And a great individual’s sleeping. Let’s look at
custom fit their care plan. You clinician is going to be able to really what kind of foods they’re putting
custom fit their nutrition, their understand the individual’s health in their body, what kinds of toxins
exercise profile. How important history, ask the right questions, they’re surrounded with on a regular
is it, in your opinion, for all health perform the right tests to get basis, how they’re handling stress.
care professionals to do that? And the right data to customize the
we’ll just start from there with that appropriate program. Let’s deal with those things, and
question. let’s save the medications for the
Dr. Zielinski: So what do you think emergency room where we’ve got
Dr. Jockers: You know, that’s really are the dangers of this medical emergencies or clinical histories
where the rubber hits the road. approach, we could call it, that where that individual may be,
Specific lifestyle principles—for basically pharma and the medical certain genetic issues, where that
example, good sleeping habits, community have taken? I mean, individual just needs something.
getting rid of processed foods, what are the inherent risks? And I would venture to say that,
eating more vegetables—things like 95% of medications that are
that are going to help everybody. Dr. Jockers: You know as far as prescribed really shouldn’t be
But with the kind of issues that just I think the biggest thing in the prescribed.
we’re dealing with today with the medical system, unfortunately,
amount of autoimmune disease is that medications are used And the other 5% can be life-saving,
and the severe inflammatory as a first line for health. And right, oftentimes are. And so we
spirals, these cycles of inflammation what’s unfortunate about that is need to just really look at our
that most people are dealing with, medications they just have a ton medical system and our overall
most people that are chronically ill of side effects. All the research health care system and start to
are dealing with. It just takes more that’s done with it, there’s always a make those shifts, make those
than just lifestyle. And you got to be number of side effects that come changes to look at medications as
as specific as you possibly can. And with it. It’s really just manipulating more of a later solution rather than
so looking at lab work really helps our natural biochemistry. And these a first cause, first solution.
us do that. are synthetic pharmaceuticals, of
course. They’re synthetic so they’re Dr. Zielinski: You know, my gut
Understanding somebody’s history. not natural to our body. They’re instinct goes, as a writer, I want to
Understanding even things like not innate to our body’s natural coin everything that you’re saying
maybe their blood type. Or I ask rhythms. And therefore they’re as “cutting edge.” But it’s really not. I
a lot of questions about, “Hey, going to inherent with side effects. mean what you’re sharing with us is
how do you feel when you eat just timeless principles that people
these particular foods? Do you feel And everybody responds a little have used since the beginning
gassy? Do you feel tired? Do you bit differently based on their of time on how to manage and
feel this?” Like, for example, when genetic type, based on a number treat our illnesses and prevent
we’re looking at gut function, some of different factors. How well their disease, but it’s become, in a
people do really well low carb. body methylates and detoxifies. sense, revolutionary, I mean hence
Other people need a little more And so because of that, you don’t the name of our oil summit, The
starches. Some people need to really know how somebody’s going Essential Oil Revolution.
So for people that are hearing you, we were created, Eric, you and I Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. Well,
this is, I guarantee you there are are Christians. And so we look at it to me it means really this idea of
thousands of people right now who from a biblical perspective too that thriving life. So I know for myself,
have never heard this before. So we were created to be overcomers, growing up I was always tired. I
what advice would you give these right? And that just like I John 4:4 was always fatigued. I had trouble
folks on how to best interview? talks about, “He that is in me is sleeping at night but then during
Because we do and we need to greater than he that is in the world.” the day I was always extremely
interview our health care providers. And so it’s this mindset of my body tired. And I thought it would just
So when they’re shopping around is the most amazing healing vehicle, always be like that.
for their doctor, chiropractor, and I just need to honor the body.
naturopath, what sort of things I just thought life was like that until
should they be looking for? And so when we take that mentality I really started understanding the
into our health care approach, we’re natural laws and rules of life and
Dr. Jockers: Well, I think the first going to look for circumstances, applying those things and applying
thing is to really understand what opportunities, doctors, resources advanced health strategies and
a doctor’s job is. And doctor means that help to empower us with seeing a huge breakthrough. My
teacher. So really the greatest thing the information, the resources, energy level went through the roof,
a doctor can do is take the time to the products that we need to my mental clarity. At one point I
teach you, coach you, educate you, help empower our bodies and was a struggling student. I went to
encourage you- do everything they strengthen our innate systems so the top of my class. And so I started
possibly can to help empower you they can heal themselves. experiencing a whole other realm of
to take back control of your health. life that I didn’t even know existed.
So that’s what you want in a
And so unfortunately, in our society, clinician is you want somebody that And I think most people in society
most of our doctors are trained really honors that mentality, that are settling for so much less than
really to be more of like therapists says, yeah, your body is strong, their best. They’re really settling
where they hear your symptoms, that you are healthy, that you for mediocrity in their life. And
and they prescribe something. It’s weren’t created deficient. Instead they could have more if they just
just treatment right away rather that your body is strong enough to understood that number one, it
than really taking the time to teach overcome the infectious organisms, existed. Number two that there are
you and educate you. And I think the environmental toxins, all the timeless principles that we have to
what we need in our society is a things that you’re encountering on follow in order to honor our body in
proactive approach where we take a regular basis as long as you follow order to give it the best chance to
self-responsibility for our health, the rules of life. thrive. So SuperCharged Lifestyle is
and we say, “I want to know what really just about thriving. It’s about
it’s going to take for me to get And as a doctor, our job is to help having incredible mental clarity,
healthy.” teach you the rules of life, teach waking up in the morning with
you the pros and cons of following tons of energy, vigor, excitement
And it’s not like you need to study or not following those things, and about taking on our day, having
the in-depth details of biochemistry. help to encourage and inspire lots of energy and excitement that
You don’t need to know the Krebs you to really follow the rules of we’re able to put into our career,
cycle and this and that. But you do life, to honor your body, and give our relationships. We’re able to put
need to have a health philosophy. you really the most cutting edge into our hobbies, extra curricular
I think that’s really where it starts. strategies that work with your activities, all the different things
You need to understand, what is innate immune system, with your that we want to do in our life that
your health philosophy? body’s innate ability to heal to we’re able to do that.
maximize your overall health and
Like for example, I would venture quality of life. And you know, this idea in our
to say that most of the people society that you know that when
that are in this summit, our health Dr. Zielinski: So with that let’s turn sixty, seventy, eighty years old,
philosophy really centers around transition and talk about your our body starts to break down and
that the body has an innate ability recent book that you just published, life isn’t as enjoyable, that’s all a
to heal itself, that the body was SuperCharged Immunity. Again, I fallacy. We can thrive well into our
created to adapt to environmental ask you what does a super charged eighties, nineties, over a hundred
stressors, and that we were lifestyle mean to you, Dr. Jockers? It years. Moses got his life calling
created to overcome them. That means something to everybody. when he was eighty. You got Joshua
and Caleb fighting wars in their in some concepts that I’m sure that And so what I always do is I always
eighties and nineties in the Bible. people have not heard of. First and give people the example that it’s
We should have incredible mental foremost, this idea of hormesis. If kind of like exercise. So if we were
vigor. you could describe that a little bit. to just sit down all day long, our
I’m sure that’s a word that a vast muscles would atrophy. We’re
And I know, Eric, you’re a lot like majority of people on the call are just lying on a bed all day long.
me. It’s like hey, I want to have tons not familiar with. We’re not stressing our body.
of energy. I want to be pouring and And so it’s very easy on our body,
contributing to society at a really Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. And but we atrophy and we get weak
high level until the day I die. And that’s a really key term because in and we have an inability to adapt
I think a super charged lifestyle’s our society, I mean, right now it’s effectively.
what really, that’s kind of like a February. There’s all this talk about
blanket term that helps to give a vaccines and measles and this and So when we go and we exercise, it
title to what that mentality and that that that’s going on. And so really can be painful. In fact, the best type
idea, that way of living is. And so in our society, we’re kind of just of exercise where we get, I guess,
that’s why I coined that term. told that we’re innocent victims of the greatest adaptation to is very,
viruses and bacteria and that we’re very painful. Very high intensity
Dr. Zielinski: So essentially what just susceptible to it. exercise can be very painful and
I’m hearing you say and what very stressful on our muscle
everyone really needs to take away In fact, the germ theory which is tissue; however, given the right
from this discussion is what Dr. kind of like the basis for the medical environment the ability to adapt—
Jockers has put together in this system really what the germ theory get good rest, proper nutrients—
book is a formula to help you live explains is that there’s a certain our body’s able to adapt and grow
out your life purpose because with pathogenic organism—bacteria, stronger. And so we’re able to get
sickness, with disease, holding virus, yeast maybe, or a parasite— stronger as a physical being.
us back, there’s very little that we that ends up causing a specific
could do. You know, I’ve always illness or disease. And so the key You know, it’s the same thing
said this: the devil can’t take away then is to locate, find out which when we’re encountering different
my salvation. But he can make me organism it is, and then destroy the stresses. I think every one of us has
useless for the kingdom of God if organism. And of course antibiotics experienced either starting a new
I’m sick in bed all the time. Right? So and vaccines are really the major job or a new activity, and it’s a lot
how important is this for the church players when it comes to that sort more stressful. I remember years
to realize. All the more. of medical approach. ago when I was in school, it was like
the first day I would have a break.
And so, Doc, I just love the content But what the germ theory also talks
of the book. It’s evidence-based. about is this idea that sure there’s Like, for example when you’re in
And as a researcher, I’ve gotten invading microorganisms but grade school, you have a summer
to the point now in the last twelve there’s also the quality of the host. break and then you get back.
years of doing this in my world And Louis Pasteur that termed it, he And then like the first week it was
of researching and reading that I talks about the quality of the host. like every single day I’d have a
can look at a website and within And unfortunately, the medical headache. I would be so tired. I’d
five seconds I can tell if this is a system has put very little thought need a nap after school. I would
refutable resource. And you look and very little emphasis on the be so tired because I wasn’t used
at your book. I mean we’re talking quality of the host. to the stress of getting up early,
dozens and dozens of evidence- being up and having to be mentally
based citations. I love it. But hormesis is really this idea stimulated all morning. You
that when we’re exposed to remember those days?
And I’ve got to just give everyone small amounts of environmental
that plug. For those of you who stressors whether it’s dirt, dander, Dr. Zielinski: Oh, yeah.
take advantage of this summit, bad bacteria, viruses, yeast,
you’ll get Dr. Jockers’s book for parasites- different things like Dr. Jockers: Yeah. And so it took me
free. And that’s his gift. So I just this- that it actually helps stimulate like a week or two to adapt to that.
want to thank you, Doc, for doing our immune system and in small And I think everybody can relate
that because it’s very generous. It’s amounts, as long as our body’s able to that. We’ve all had experiences
a fantastic tool. And I want to dig to adapt effectively, we’re able to for that. And so hormesis is this
into the book a little bit, especially heal, overcome it, and get stronger. idea that when we’re exposed to
environmental challenges, as long Next thing you know, he plops on We jump to the next level. So now
as we’re given the ability to adapt his butt, and he gets really wet. I’m we actually grow in life and so we
effectively that we get stronger. We like, “Ugh, I’m really in trouble”. And grow in many different areas but
get more resilient. then face forward he just does like particularly our immune system just
a face plant and just starts drinking gets so much stronger.
And the super immunity book water, like the ground water. And
really uses that as an emphasis I’m like, oh my God. As you know, So the same microorganism that
for our immune system. That our our kids aren’t vaccinated. They’ve may have caused a challenge a year
immune system gets stronger. It never had a drug. And he didn’t get before, as long as we’re supporting
gets more intelligent. We actually sick. our body, our immune system
boost what we call our immune IQ. laughs at it. It’s like, “Oh, come on.
I talk about that in the book. It’s our I mean he had a little bit of You can’t get me this time.” And it
immune intelligence. The ability for runs afterwards, a little bit of a just knocks it out completely.
our immune system to recognize gastrointestinal problem. But we
microorganisms that are not in immediately incorporated some Dr. Zielinski: So, Doc, is that what
harmony with our body, and to essential oils in his world. He you meant in your book on how the
destroy them quickly and effectively nursed. He went home. He had immune system is a muscle?
with the least amount of residual some food. And I mean baby boy
damage to the body. is good. I mean I didn’t rush him Dr. Jockers: Yes, absolutely. So we
to the hospital. He literally drank got to think about it like a muscle.
And so if we want to improve our water in the park. Hey, that is his So in our society we think if we
immune IQ, we need to be faced vaccination. get sick we come down with a
with dirt/dander. Kids that grew cold or a flu, we think it’s an awful
up on farms, for example, they’re Dr. Jockers: That’s right. That’s thing. And yeah the symptoms
exposed to a lot more dirt and right. So now whatever he are definitely not pleasant. I’m not
dander. They have significantly experienced, so he took in a certain telling everybody, “Go enjoy those
lower risk of asthma and allergies amount of microorganisms, right, symptoms.” However, what we
than kids that grow up in the probably a good percentage really have to realize is it’s actually
city where they’re in a sterile that aren’t very healthy for his a great thing. Oftentimes I’ve had a
environment. body. However, his immune lot of my clients who are like, you
system, because you were able know, they’re like, “Man, I’ve been
And so again, it’s a difference in to support his body appropriately really sick.” And I say, “You know
immune IQ. The kids that grew up using essential oils, giving him what? This is awesome.” Or their
on the farm have a significantly rest, putting him in a healthy child will be sick.
higher immune system intelligence environment, now his body’s
quotient. Their IQ is higher in immune system was basically And I say, “You know what? This
that area. And therefore they’re challenged. is awesome.” And I’m giving them
able to resist these inflammatory a different mentality behind it
type of disorders and these kind Okay, so think of it like a Slinky so because I’m like, “You know what?
of autoimmune or immune over- it got cropped. And it got set and Right now the immune system is
reactive disorders like asthma and then it was able to get stronger. being challenged. And if we put this
allergy. It was able to ramp up and get child in the proper environment,
stronger because it was primed. giving them lots of rest, proper
Dr. Zielinski: You know, it’s funny And so that’s really the key there is nutrition, hydration, utilizing the
you mention that. I have a cute priming our immune system. Not right remedies like essential oils,
story to share. We’ve all heard that we need to all drink dirty water high quality natural antimicrobials,
farmer’s kids are the healthiest or run around in an unsanitized things like probiotics and vitamin D
kids. So Elijah, our two year old, he environment or something like that. and stuff like that that works to help
and I and Esther and Isaiah were create balance and homeostasis in
at the park. And I just let Elijah just But at the same time, we need the body, then the immune system
do his thing. And he started playing to prime our immune system is going to have what it needs to
in just a pool of water. And I’m like, with exposure to dirt, dander, get stronger, to overcome this
okay, “Sabrina’s going to get upset. microorganisms, environmental microorganism and help adapt.”
He’s getting wet.” I’m like, “Okay, challenges, and allow our body
whatever. I’ll be the fun dad.” to adapt effectively so we can get So like a Slinky, again, it gets
stronger. And like a Slinky we prime. primed. And the priming aspect
is compressive, right? Think Have you moved recently and got Number one, first and foremost,
about a Slinky. We don’t usually a whole bunch of new furniture destructive emotions and next
put emotions into it, but it’s and didn’t let it off gas and you’ve certain medications, poor hygiene,
compressive. It’s painful like when got a whole bunch more chemicals toxic chemicals. And I want to
we’re exercising. But then, boom! that are coming off in it? Are you talk about those. And if you could
It’s able to explode and go to the taking medications? Are you eating just talk about the significance of
next step, the next level of life. So a bad diet? Things like that. So emotional wellbeing in immune
the immune system’s stronger so your environment, your lifestyle. system strength.
the chance of that child getting sick So what’s your lifestyle like? Are
like that again as long as, again, you eating the right foods? Are you Dr. Jockers: Yeah, so critical. So
the environment is conducive, as sleeping well? So these types of [inaudible] thinking, things like
long as the child continues to live a things play a huge role. depression, sadness, anger, these
healthy lifestyle is much lower. And things all they create inflammation
that’s really the key. And then the third thing is your and oxidative stress in the body.
metabolic capacity. And that can And so bitterness, unforgiveness,
And, Eric, one more thing I wanted change at any moment, but your low self worth, these things
to touch on because, again, I talk metabolic capacity is something actually shut down your natural
about this a lot in the book is that grows like the Slinky when T-suppressor cells. And those
there’s three key factors. This is you’re providing the hormesis T-suppressor cells inhibit the
the other thing that we have to stress. So when you’re exposed overproduction of inflammatory
understand when it comes to either to different things rather than activity in the body. T- suppressors
your susceptibility to developing living in a sterile environment, you help reduce autoimmune activity,
sickness and what that looks like improve your metabolic capacity chronic, inflammatory activity in
going forward in your life. It comes when you do things like, for your body.
down to these things. example, exercising regularly helps
improve your metabolic capacity And so I think about it from like an
And you might be somebody, even from an immune perspective ancestral perspective. When you
because I know I hear this from to overcome viruses, bacteria, are severely, let’s say, when you’re
a lot of my clients, you might infection- different things like that. really angry, your body thinks that
be somebody who says, “Well, I When you sleep well. you’re being attacked or you’re
never get sick.” I hear clients say going into war or something along
that all the time. Well, “I never get So it’s all about those three key those lines. And you’re at a greater
sick.” In fact, I was just talking to a factors. What’s your metabolic risk for developing some sort of
restaurant owner the other day. He capacity look like right now an infection. Infections, systemic
got really, really sick. And he was to handle stress? What’s your infections, infections that go
asking for some advice. And he’s environment? What’s the throughout our whole body have
like, “You know what? I never get environmental factors going on killed more people in the history of
sick. One time in five years. But this around you? And what is your mankind than anything else.
time I got really put down.” And so current lifestyle? What kinds of
his body, of course, has naturally things did you do yesterday, did And so your body’s hard-wired to
just a little stronger immune you do today, that will impact your prevent against a systemic infection
system. And so he’s not getting sick overall ability to adapt, create from destroying your body. And
very often. However, at every given balance and homeostasis in your so it increases natural killer cell
moment, your susceptibility can body? formation. Different just overall you
change. create an immune imbalance where
Dr. Zielinski: You know, Doc, in your body promotes inflammation
And the three key factors that your book you mention lifestyle throughout your whole system.
we have to put into this equation activities that cripple the immune
that will end up leading to your system specifically. And I wanted We know the average person has
susceptibility to developing sickness to talk about a couple. I wanted to over 30,000 thoughts a day. And
are number one your environment. name and then we’re going to go research has shown that fear all
So are you surrounded by stressors back. These are key. Of course you on its own triggers more than
and toxins? Are you under more mentioned sugar and sleep. And 1,400 known physical and chemical
stress? Do you have a lot of toxins? I found that four really resonated responses and activates more
Is your indoor environment even with this discussion. than 30 different hormones. And
more toxic than it was before? so there’s toxic waste that goes on
with that that really malcoordinates of them where after, just simply So just natural strategies. If you
the immune system. And so we look diffusion where you just have a continue to have problems, really
at our healthy immune system, it’s diffuser just going on in the front talking with the right type of
well- coordinated. Again, this idea desk or in various rooms, 2% of doctor to help you with that. But
of immune IQ is a well-coordinated, people felt being overwhelmed at prioritizing sleep and really trying
balanced immune system where work after using essential oils just to get eight hours of high quality
we have balance between, for by diffusing it. sleep, ideally being in bed by 10:00
example, different cytokines and P.M., no later than 11:00 P.M. on a
different T-cells like T-helper cells And this is interesting, too. The regular basis can be huge in your
and T-suppressor cells that create ability to equip and handle stress. ability to handle and adapt to stress
balance and coordination. 13% of people, the workers, the for good high quality emotions
staff, felt that they were equipped and emotional intelligence. Good
And so we know destructive to handle the stress of their work sleep is huge. I know for me that’s
emotions are going to lead more life where after essential oils, they probably one of the biggest factors
inflammatory processes and a experienced 58% of the people. for me on a regular basis.
lowered resistance to overall, it’s That’s an unbelievable statistic.
going to over-stress our body and Unbelievable. Healthy diet. So keeping sugars
therefore, over time, it’s going to and grains out of your system as
lead to resistance. But a lowered And for you, Doc, because I know much as possible, things that turn
ability to resist developing things that you are an energy junkie. 33% into sugar. And so there’s a lot of
like colds, flus, fevers, and different before diffusing, they reported that research done on sugar effecting
issues like that. they experienced optimal energy the immune system. And there’s
where 77%, I mean over 150% something called a phagocytic index
Dr. Zielinski: So for those people increase of people at the hospital which is really the ability of white
who haven’t heard of the Vanderbilt reported optimal energy just from blood cells to phagocyte or destroy
study, the Vanderbilt Medical diffusing essential oils. So, with that, bacteria, viruses, yeast, these
Center, which is a premier system in addition to essential oils, what opportunistic microbes. What we
in Tennessee, they tested essential can people do to really counteract know is that a blood sugar level of
oils in their hospital to see how destructive emotions? 120 or mores—so like diabetes is a
that had an effect on the emotional fasting blood sugar of 125. But most
wellbeing of their staff. And I Dr. Jockers: You know, that study people in society between meals
just want to throw out a couple is huge. I mean if you think about they’ll have breakfast like a bowl of
statistics, and then, Doc, I have a even just where that took place at cereal or something.
question for you. a hospital. Doctors and nurses are
some of the, I mean they’ve got Or maybe even for lunch have a
Dr. Jockers: Yep. highly stressed jobs. They’re people sandwich and their blood sugar,
that actually have some of the boom, it will jump up to 200 and
Dr. Zielinski: So before thirty days lowest job satisfaction rates. And so they won’t even know it. And it will
of essential oil use…And they used you think just taking into account actually stay in that range for a
mood enhancing oils a lot, very that setting, and that’s gigantic. good period of time. That actually
common, the citrus oils, the lemon, reduces the phagocytic index, the
the orange, the bergamots, those So what are things people can do ability of the white blood cells to
are mood enhancing and boost on a regular basis? Well, we got to destroy these bad microorganisms
mood, where lavender would just start with just simple things like by 75%. So it significantly reduces
create a sense of calm and peace. good sleep cycles. Really prioritizing their ability to fend off bad
sleep is huge. And so obviously microbes. So huge.
So when they’re using different oils, if you have insomnia, things like
before the essential oils were used, that, that needs to be addressed Other things we want to do are, if
the staff—we’re talking nurses, and really working with a good we’re going to take the sugar out,
the cleanup staff, the janitorial functional medicine practitioner or what do we replace it with? Let’s
staff, the doctors— 41% of them just really taking on some natural get good fats in, things like grass-
indicated that they had stress very strategies. I know I’ve got an article fed butter which has got butyric
often. After 30 days of use, only 3%. on my website about ten natural acid which is real powerful for the
Just think of that decrease. Before strategies to improve your sleep. immune cells of your body, very
the use of essential oils, the staff good for your gut. It’s got things like
reported being overwhelmed 25% CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), which
helps to stimulate your immune microbial load. Doc. I want to talk about the one,
system. Things like coconut oil with arguably the most influential and
lauric acid which is an antimicrobial. And so when we’re doing things easily removed—under the proper
So good fats are key. like oil pulling and good hygiene- guidance—activity that can cripple
brushing/flossing our teeth, the immune system are using
Bone broth, which has got showering regularly, doing things certain medications.
compounds that help produce like even an infrared sauna helps
collagen in your body. Glycine helps with this, dry brushing our skin, You mentioned before earlier
strengthen the gut. You think about exfoliating our skin- all this helps in the talk about the ubiquity
bone marrow, when you’re making to reduce this microbial load. And of medications, that they’re
bone broth, you’re actually getting that helps strengthen our immune everywhere. And 95%—I never
the marrow, which is within the system. knew that’s—95% of people
bone out. And the bone marrow medications are being prescribed
is where the white blood cells are And so the more that we can incorrectly. Just want to talk a little
created. reduce that, the less load and bit about, in your opinion, on why
stress on our immune system and you listed using certain medications
So you think about it, I mean that the better our immune system is as a top ten lifestyle activity that
old wives’ tale of chicken soup, going to be as well as really just our cripples the immune system.
right, kind of the Jewish folklore energy and our quality of life. So
of chicken being not just good for oil pulling and all these different Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. And
your soul but also good for your things, and I talk about it in the free so, just like I said before, 95% of the
immune system. That idea really book that I’m giving the audience, medications that are prescribed
came from this bone marrow. The Super Immunity, all these different don’t have to be prescribed that
bone marrow, again, has got, in a strategies that you can apply to if somebody were to change their
sense, stem cells to help produce really help strengthen your immune lifestyle and apply some natural,
white blood cells. It’s got all the raw system and help your body adapt herbal remedies such as essential
materials to help produce healthy to stress and regain balance and oils, they could overcome their
white blood cells in your body. And homeostasis. health challenge without the use of
so doing things like bone broth that medication.
from pasture-raised chickens or Dr. Zielinski: So one thing I
grass-fed beef and things like that, can’t stress enough for everyone And that is huge to understand
very, very powerful. So from a listening is going to DrJockers.com because medications,
nutrition perspective, we want to and just taking advantage of just unfortunately, are ripe with a lot of
use things like that. the wealth of information that Dr. different side effects. For example,
Jockers is sharing. I mean his health things like Ibuprofen, aspirin,
We can use medicinal mushrooms. tab, his fitness tab, his recipe tab. Advil, NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-
We can use things like garlic, ginger, inflammatory drugs). These are
oregano. Essential oils are powerful. There’s so many resources and things that you can go to Walgreens
We can do things like oil pulling even I see you have a free signup and buy inexpensively, and people
where you just put it in a little bit of where you’re giving people a do. And the sales go up every
coconut oil. You can put essential SuperCharged Healthy Recipe book. single year. And these are the most
oils in with it in your mouth. And you I mean that’s fantastic. So that’s commonly used medications.
swish for ten/fifteen minutes, and the one thing I just love about you,
that reduces your microbial load. David, is that you’re not giving the In fact, most people in society have
fish. You’re giving people the fishing these things in their house. These
And this is a key topic to think about pole, and that’s so critical. We need drugs, they deplete key B vitamins
as well is that we’ve got so much to empower people. Like you said, in your body. They hamper your
microbial organisms in our body, as a doctor, you’re a teacher. You’re body’s ability to do something
ten times more than the cells in our a guide. called methylate which is really
body, and particularly they load up And for those of you who want a key factor with protecting your
in kind of the moist surfaces of our some good recipes ideas, I mean DNA. They also, many people know
body so just like our mouth. And my wife and I we just love them. this, they affect your gut lining and
so those microbes and their waste And we’ve been taking advantage your stomach lining so they actually
products, even when they’re healthy of them. And just use them, love increase your risk of developing
microbes, they provide a stress on them, and enjoy them. And I want things like acid reflux, H. pylori
our immune system, and I call it the to wrap up the conversation, infection, ulcers. They reduce the
binding of the tight junctions in These are things that don’t cost Kennesaw, Georgia. Visit him. Come
your gut lining. And so therefore the you anything other than just a by. Receive just some one-on- one
gut lining is more permeable which general awareness and just making support. He’s got a great, trained
can increase your susceptibility to sacrifices and making changes. staff who all on tune with what’s
leaky gut syndrome which leaky Let’s start with that. Then let’s go he’s doing. And it’s just about, you
gut syndrome is associated with with inexpensive, natural remedies. know, we can’t do this alone. Amen,
autoimmune disease. And so taking Things like vitamin D, essential oils, Doc? I mean we’re in this together.
those medications on a regular probiotics, maybe omega three
basis can really hamper overall supplements, stuff like that. Dr. Jockers: That’s right. Yeah,
digestive function. Let’s try that approach, right? absolutely. I mean the reality is that
we want to stand on the shoulders
And so these things are not meant If we’re still not getting over the of giants. So we want to look at like
to be played with. There’s a time hump after spending a good amount many of the people in this summit,
and a place for them but definitely of time doing those things, let’s these are people who have spent
not something we want to be using find a functional medicine doctor, years and years studying and just
regularly. Antibiotic usage, we know a good chiropractor perhaps, that had a passion, an innate passion,
now today that one of the biggest could look at our spine and nervous that God put within them to learn
epidemics is antibiotic-resistant system. Let’s look at a functional as much as they possibly can about
strains of different bacteria and medicine doctor that can do some natural health.
different microorganisms. detailed blood work and functional
testing to look at what we’re toxic And so if you’re out there and
And so MRSA, for example, is one in, what we’re deficient in, and let’s you’re listening and maybe you’re
of these common ones whereas address those things. just starting your natural health
you have things like oregano oil, walk. Maybe you’ve been on this
essential oil of oregano, which And let’s save the medications, the walk for a while. Perhaps you’re
has been shown to be a powerful surgeries, the medical devices for seeing great results already or
reducer of MRSA staph aureus is last cause just emergency crisis maybe you’ve tried different things
this type of bacteria, staphylococcus situation. And that’s really the idea but you just haven’t gotten the
aureus that is resistant to many we should have when it comes to results that you wanted. Wherever
different forms of antibiotics. our health care approach. you’re at, you want to stand on the
shoulders of giants.
And so the reality is the more Dr. Zielinski: You just put
that we can get away from using something that we learned in You want to stand on the shoulders
medications and start to really months and months and books of people that have been studying
focus on natural lifestyle, natural and books just in the five minutes. this for years, that have dealt
herbs, things that are in nature That was so profound, folks, of hundreds and hundreds and
that we can find in nature that because when you read Dr. hundreds and maybe thousands
work in harmony with our body Jockers’ book, he has the top five of challenging cases. And with
and help bring us back to a state immune strengthening herbs. And today’s technology and, Eric, you
of homeostasis and balance, the he includes garlic and oregano taking the time to really put on an
better off our health is going to be. and ginger, tumeric, and green incredible event like this, it allows
tea. I mean, this is medicine. And us to do that. It allows us to really
And it’s really, really critical is we need to realize that food is feed off of each other, get as much
that we should never be thinking medicine. And when you take that information and inspiration as we
medications first. Medications approach, going to a synthetic can so we can take the next step in
should be way down the road. Let’s version is never, ever, ever the our health journey.
look at lifestyle factors. You know, solution. If anything, it’s just going
simplest, easiest things you can do to be a Band-Aid. Ultimately I believe that our health
right away are change your diet, journey is really part of our spiritual
change your sleeping patterns, get So to empower people that, you story. It’s really a story that God’s
outside more, get sunshine and know what? You can be Dr. Mom given us. And it’s a part of really
change your thought processes. Do and Dr. Dad. And having someone learning and understanding who
the best you can to reduce stress. like you, reading your books, God made us to be, and it allows
Really, really focus on gratitude or following your website, and if you’re us to really grow closer to our spirit
love, healthy, strong relationships. local to Atlanta, Dr. Jockers owns and gives us just a greater sense
Exodus Health Center which is in and respect and honor for the
power that God put within us.

And so you know for somebody

like myself. I have struggled with
health issues. If you’re out there
and you’ve struggled, in my life I’m
only thirty-three but I’ve struggled
with very severe irritable bowel
syndrome. I had skin cancer at one
point in my life. And I know that
those things actually I look back at
them and even though they were
great challenges and great stressors
at that time in my life, that they’ve
actually been the greatest, in a
sense, push to make me who I am
today. That they’ve actually helped
elevate my life and opened my eyes
to a new way of thinking and a new
way of living.

And I couldn’t be more grateful for

that. And so wherever you’re at
in your life, I would just take that
advice that your testimony, I should
say your tragedy is your testimony.
Whatever you’re dealing with is
really meant to be a great testimony
to honor God and to open your
eyes and your perspective to a new
way of life.

Dr. Zielinski: Awesome. Thanks

again, Doc. And I want to thank you
all for tuning in to the Essential Oil
Revolution. And if you have found
this content helpful, remember you
can take it home with you. Just click
on the banner beside or below for
more details. And God bless. Talk to
you soon.
 How to “Disease Proof”
Yourself
James Maskell with David L. Katz, MD/MPH
Click here to watch this interview!
The purpose of this presentation is to convey information.
It is not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure your condition or to be a substitute
for advice from your physician or other healthcare professional.

Dr. Katz, this is a bio of a man have better lives: less sadness, less
on a mission to change health in loss, less anguish, more years in
America. What is the driving force life, more life in years. You know, to
James: Hello, and welcome back to of the passion that keeps you have that for ourselves and to have
The Evolution of Medicine Summit. moving forward today to do all of that for the people we love. And so
This is James Maskell. And I have these things and to be on an event I look out and see that opportunity.
the distinct pleasure of being today like this? And knowing that it’s potentially
with Dr. David Katz. Now, Dr. David within reach just inspires me every
Katz is probably familiar to a lot Dr. Katz: Well, James, thanks day to keep trying to get us there.
of you for different reasons. And for the kind introduction. It’s
if we were going to give Dr. Katz’s pretty obvious. I’m a person. And James: Absolutely. And I know, as
full bio, we’d probably have to be whatever we do professionally, well as the books and everything
here…Actually it might take up the we’re all people. We all feel the that you’re doing in America,
majority of the interview today same things. We all have the same you’ve also been very active on
because Dr. Katz has been on a kinds of hopes and aspirations for the Internet, things like LinkedIn. It
mission in preventative health for it ourselves and the people we love. seems like this is the spread of this
seems like decades. And in my world of preventive chronic disease has almost started
medicine, I know very well that we in America and is actually moving
Dr. Katz has his degree, initially, have the capacity if we turn what out to other countries now. So how
from the Albert Einstein College we already know into what we important is it for us to start to
of Medicine, his masters of Public routinely do, to eliminate just about communicate some of these best
Health from Yale and is board- eighty percent of all of the chronic practices outwards, as well?
certified in preventative medicine. disease in the world. So that’s heart
He’s the editor-in-chief of Childhood disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, Dr. Katz: This is a global issue for
Obesity and involved with the dementia. sure, James. And it may very well
American College of Lifestyle be that we here in the U.S. can be
Medicine. President to a number of And I’ve got skin in the game. I think proud of being the epicenter of the
non-profits. Also, introduced and is about the people I love who have mess that modern epidemiology
the principal inventor of the NuVal been affected by those conditions. has become. But we’ve been very
nutritional guidance system, which And then I think about the friends effective at exporting it. And it’s
you’ve probably seen in your local who have people they love affected particularly tragic because there’s
supermarket. Has published nearly by those conditions. And I can’t help a study called the Blue zones that
200 scientific articles and is now but be a human first and just think looks all around the world at the
working in New Haven, Connecticut about the loss, the sadness, the populations that live the longest,
at the Griffin Hospital with internal anguish that we all get caught up in have the least chronic disease, tend
and preventive medicine program that doesn’t need to happen eight to be the happiest. And instead
and has been all over TV, ABC News, times in ten. of importing those lessons to the
New York Times. United States and making that our
Now, if you’re not inspired by culture, we export around the world
So you should have heard of Dr. something like that, I’m not sure McDonalds and Coca-Cola and
David Katz. And if you haven’t, then what would inspire you. So there’s help everybody get fat and sick like
I’m glad that I’m bringing him today. this incredible opportunity to we are. So, absolutely, it’s a global
improve the human condition. issue.
You know for many of us to simply
In fact, we have information from But although the title may be is part of their routine cultural
the World Health Organization that punchy here, James, there really is norm. They tend not to smoke. And
there are more overweight and a problem. Dr. Bland’s book may or they tend to have a more leisurely
obese people on the planet than may not have the same problem. pace to their lives, less stress. And
there are hungry people. Now, But the problem for me as an then they have a strong sense of
throughout history, hunger’s been author— and having the same hope community.
an issue. And it still is. But obesity’s that every author has to get on the
now a more prevalent issue even New York Times bestseller list—is So looking at those examples, the
than hunger. that what tends to land you there is question is, ”How do we apply that
a magical promise. So most of the in the context of the crazy lives we
And despite the fact that we know books that are guaranteed to get on tend to lead?” And we can. But it’s
that culture could be the medium of the bestseller list tell people it’s just skill dependent. And so my basic
lifestyle is medicine, again, we’re not this one effortless thing you need argument in Disease-Proof is you
doing an effective job of learning to do. And the next thing you know, need more than willpower. You
the lessons from the cultures to get you’ll lose the weight or find the need skill power. And skills can be
this right. We are overtaking them health. You know, essentially there’s learned. And my mission is to try
with all of the problems of modern magical pixie dust on page 315. I and teach the ones that I have. I’m
culture that tend to produce both don’t deal in magical pixie dust. an expert in this space. I’m supposed
obesity and chronic disease. to have those skills. Skills can be
Basically, what the blue zones teach shared. Skills can be paid forward.
James: Absolutely. So I’d like to get us is that you actually have to live
into some of those best practices well. You actually have to eat well. James: Yeah. Exactly. It’s interesting
and just start with this for everyone You have to be active. You have you used the word immunize
listening. We’ve call this segment, sleep well and enough. You have to, yourself earlier because traditionally
“Disease Proofing Yourself.” And obviously, avoid tobacco. You have anything to do with health has been
that was the name of one of your to manage the stress in your lives. something that you would have
books. And I’m really glad that And you need strong social bonds. done to you by a doctor. But this is
there are books that are coming something that’s outside of sort of
out now with really punchy titles, I consider the three predominant the medical industry.
like Disease-Proof: The Remarkable influences on health: feet, forks, and
Truth About What Makes Us Well, fingers. And by that I mean physical Dr. Katz: Self-immunization. I think
or recently Dr. Bland’s Disease activity, dietary pattern, and not that’s a key point, James. If anything,
Delusion. These are book titles that holding cigarettes. But the next we tend to impart—and, of course,
really grab people’s attention and three would be sleep, stress, and I am a physician—but I think we
say, “Hey, this is something that love. So I think everybody can take tend to impart way too much power
we could be doing.” So what do we that away from today’s discussion: to physicians and the so-called
learn from those Blue zones about feet, fork, fingers, sleep, stress, and healthcare system. The healthcare
disease proofing? And what can we love. Get those six right. Be active. system is really mostly about
learn from them first and foremost Eat well. Don’t smoke. Get good treating disease. If we want to talk
in America? sleep. Mitigate the stress in your about building health at its origins,
life. And have strong connections well then, frankly, each of us needs
Dr. Katz: Well, first of all, thanks to other people. Frankly, everything to be in charge.
about the book. So Disease-Proof else is vanishingly less important
is a good title. And my editors at after that. We do that in the places we live and
Penguin get the credit for that. love and learn and work and pray
They came up with it. Although, The blue zones get that right. Eating and play—the places we actually live
that really is what the book is well is just part of those cultures. our lives and spend our time—not
about, how we could use lifestyle We’re talking about Crete, Okinawa, in clinics and not in hospitals. And
as medicine to immunize ourselves Seventh Day Adventist in California, the power over all of that resides not
against eighty percent of all chronic other populations around the with doctors and not at the cutting
disease, reduce your personal world. But many of them have edge of biomedical advance. But
lifetime risk of heart disease, plant-based diets. Many of them it’s in our own hands. It’s really the
cancer, stroke, diabetes, dementia have Mediterranean diets. They do choices we make every day.
by eighty percent and get similar a lot of walking. So they’re physically
gains at the population level. active. They’re not necessarily in the And the other thing that’s important
gym pumping iron. But just motion to note in the mixt here, James, is
that well more than a decade into And when you go looking for the But one of the critical things,
the genomic age now, we know reasons, they’re not saying, “My James—and I hope our discussion
that DNA is not destiny. We’ve gone doctor’s so fantastic. Or I get really today helps advance this mission—
looking for the past ten years to try great clinical counseling.” Maybe one of the critical things is we’ve got
and identify the genes responsible that’s true. And again, I am a to grow up and be serious about
for heart disease, cancer, stroke, physician. I take care of patients. All health and weight. We have to stop
diabetes, dementia. All the stuff that of that stuff really does matter. But, waiting for magical pixie dust to
tends to affect us. And there is no essentially, the answer is culture come along. I really grow tired of
single gene responsible. It’s a whole is the vehicle. And lifestyle is the the fascination with the next big fad
mix of genes. But what proves to medicine. Or culture, if you will, is diet, as if somebody’s going to come
be really important is not the genes the spoon. along with some magical formula
you have, but the experience you to fix everything. We have to take
have in your life that influences the And then it’s just the way we live this seriously. We have to give it the
way your genes behave. When we every day. They need doctors a respect it deserves. And then the
change our behaviors, it affects the whole lot less. It’s not that doctors world is ours.
behavior of our genes. So while are treating their diseases so well.
DNA for the most part isn’t destiny, It’s that they’re not getting the James: Yeah. Well, I think that’s
it turns out to a very large degree, diseases in the first place. And such a good point. And I’d love
dinner is. The things we do every that’s better. It’s just better. So to get into some of those dietary
day influence the behavior of our absolutely, we really want to own things because it’s mainly diet
very genes. So really powerful this. And we can. that’s seen as the pixie dust.
opportunities for us to be the Although, we can certainly talk
doctor, to immunize ourselves. And And from my perspective, James, about some other things.
yes, there’s a role for medicine. there are two ways really to get
And yes, there’s a role for disease there from here. One is to change But I just wanted to go back to,
treatment, of course. But when it the world. A lot about the modern you said there were two ways to
comes to building health, we’re the world is conducive to getting fat and really change the world. And one
cooks. And it’s our kitchen. sick. And so we could change the is to be proactive. And one is to
world so that it’s more normal to wait for the world to change. But
James: Yeah. Exactly. And it sounds eat well and be active. I would really say that there’s only
like that’s a much more empowered And everywhere we go we have one way because the way that the
situation to be for patients. And only good food choices. And world changes is in response to the
patients aren’t typically used our schedules are a little more changes that we make. Every time
to being empowered in this hospitable. And we sleep a bit you buy a packet of Oreos from
relationship. We’ve had a sort of better and all of that. the supermarket, the amount of
patriarchal system. And it’s evolving information that goes out from that
towards a system where the patient But we can’t just keep waiting on purchase, i.e. where Oreos should
is in charge and looks for support the world to change. So the other sit on the shelf to the producers
from the medical community rather option is to change ourselves, and the people who make the
than sort of waiting and being to empower ourselves to deal products that go into Oreos, you’re
reactive. effectively with the world as it is. sending out price signals with every
And, again, I have a skillset. I’m a purchase that you make.
Dr. Katz: Well, I’d like to see more preventive medicine specialist. It’s
of that, frankly. And, again, in the my job to know how to be healthy. So in making those changes for
blue zones…And this people can And I do my job well. So I know yourself and choosing different
Google the blue zones. And you’ll how to be healthy. I eat well no foods and choosing different
see the work of Dan Buettner who matter what. I’m physically active no purveyors of food, moving to
wrote a book on this topic and matter what. I prioritize feet, forks, farmer’s markets, buying local.
studied these cultures around the fingers, sleep, stress, and love. And Those kind of things. You’re actually
world. But you look at the people I’m a beneficiary of it. My health is sending signals into the market that
who lived the longest, have the excellent. My fitness is outstanding. this is what people want. And then
most years in life, who had the And it’s not because I’m a swell the world changes as a result. So it
least chronic disease. So they have guy. It’s because I’ve got a skillset, seems to me there’s only one way
the most life in years. They tend to just like a pilot has a skillset to right. Really?
be the happiest because healthy fly a plane. So those skills can be
people have more fun. learned.
Dr. Katz: I think it’s an excellent States sold low- carb food. They Dr. Katz: So that refers to physical
point. And it’s one I make often. still do. But those low-carb foods activity. And I would agree with
So, essentially, what I was saying, predominated. There was no law. you. Really, the only controversial
James, is again, we can change the one on the list is for us to diet. So
world or change ourselves. But I There was no lawsuit. There was no we should talk mostly about that.
completely agree with you. When policy. There was no requirement. I think most people understand
we change ourselves, it changes They just knew that shoppers that being active is good and
the world. And you know maybe want this. And they put it very being sedentary not so much. We
nobody ever said that better than prominently on the shelf. We could have more and more evidence
Margaret Mead, “Never doubt that similarly show that what we want is that just the amount of time we
a small group of thoughtful and highly nutritious food. And we won’t spend seating every day, it is
committed citizens can change the buy glow-in- the-dark junk. And associated with the reduction in
world. Indeed, nothing else ever then they would stop selling glow- life expectancy and quality of life.
has.” So when we make informed in-the-dark junk. So really, just being up and moving
food choices, when we vote at is good. Higher levels of physical
the cash register, we are those The one critical thing for me to activity are good to a point. You can
thoughtful and committed citizens. I add at the end, James, is this, “The actually over-exercise, too.
completely agree with you. choices we make are determined,
in part, by the choices we have.” But the key issue for me here is
And, in fact, I am devoted in my And one of the great challenges in that it’s interesting that we seem
career to both empowering people changing the demand is that there to need things like pedometers
so that they can change themselves are forces conspiring against us that to help us count our steps. And I
and overcome the things that make are pretty powerful. don’t object to that. I think anything
being healthy difficult, but also to that helps us get there from here
essentially change our collective And just quickly, another book is good. But I’d note the following,
demand, for example, for better worth mentioning is Salt Sugar Fat James. You see somebody in a
food and thereby change the supply. by Michael Moss. Michael Moss is a wheelchair. And I think the native
Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative human reaction to that is to sort of
A lot of my colleagues work directly journalist. And what he writes about feel badly and think, “Gee, I hope
on changing the supply. They want is how big food companies have maybe it’s temporary and they can
legislation. Or they want policy hired teams of PhDs to engineer get up” because it’s a good thing to
change. And I support a lot of that. food that is all but addictive, to be able to walk and run and jump
You know, things like taxing soda. engineer food that we can’t stop and dance. And yet, most of us who
But I think the less objectionable eating. And so there are these have perfectly intact legs and can
way to change the food supply influences on us that very smart walk and run and jump and dance
is to change the food demand. people are conspiring to put on us never do!
So we completely agree. I think if that affect our behavior. And so,
we can empower people to make in essence, they’re affecting our And so we think of exercise as an,
better choices regarding feet, forks, demand. And then our demand is “Oh, woe is me.” And I’ve got to get
fingers, sleep, stress, and love. And affecting supply. And it’s this circle. a pedometer to count my steps. My
I agree with you. We can focus, in And they’re sort of in control of it. suggestion is how about we count
particular, on diet. We’ve got to break out of that chain our blessings. We have this native
if we are to exert the effect we want. animal vitality, this capacity to move,
When you add up all those better to move in ways that are fun, to do
choices, they come to be a change James: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, recreational things, whatever it is
in the food demand. And the one why don’t we delve into those six you like to do, bike or swim or ski
thing that most effectively changes areas then because we’re going or dance. So I think we have to stop
the food supply is not war. And it’s to cover those six areas really looking at exercise as this onerous
not policy. It’s trying to keep the on this summit. But I’d love to thing. Recognize that exercise is any
customer satisfied. You change just go deeper into those. You way of getting motion into your daily
the food demand, you very reliably said the first one is feet. As a routine, to let this native animal
change the food supply. We’ve seen physician or as someone who vitality of ours out of its cage and
that happen many times. understands this, what are your then to relish its exuberance. We’re
main recommendations for people endowed with this vitality that we
At the height of the Atkins Diet craze, to take responsibility for that? tend to neglect until it’s completely
every supermarket in the United gone. It just feels good to be in
motion. So motion should be part of And I think that’s so true. I think I also recommend that to anyone
our daily routine. there’s some great starting points listening because the PDF for that
there. paper is freely available to all. You
Now, the other thing I would say can just download it. So if you
is given our schedules, we have Let’s get into diet now. And I would type into Google, “Annual Review
to devise strategies to fit fitness just say a couple of things about of Public Health,” and go to the
in. And we have a program freely this is that it’s funny how you said Journal’s home page, you can find
available called A-B-E for Fitness— that people have the ability to a link to, “Can We Say What Diet Is
Activity Bursts Everywhere. People move and don’t. I was speaking to Best for Health?” It’s featured on the
can just Google A-B-E for Fitness. Or someone yesterday who was talking home page.
you can post the link for them. And about gluten. And they were saying,
this is a program of brief bursts of “Well, it’s in wheat and barley and So my job there was to review
physical activity you can do while in rye.” But he said, “But you only the literature without bias. Not to
your office throughout the day. And really have to care about wheat fall in love with any theory about
we need tools like that. So whatever because no Americans are eating vegan diets or Paleo diets or
your day is like, whether you have barley or rye.” I thought that was Mediterranean diets. And answer
time for a hike or not, whether quite funny with regards to your that question, “Can We Say What
you have time for a walk or not, last comment. But, look, you’ve Diet Is Best for Health?” And the
whether you can get to a gym or been so right about this fad diet answer is yes and no.
not, whatever your day is like, there issue where there’s always a new
is a way to fit fitness in. If you’re a fad. There’s always something that’s If what we mean is, “Can we say
truck driver and you never get out going to get you there quicker. what basic theme of eating is
of your truck, there are ways to do best for human health?” then,
isometric routines while driving If we learn from the blue zones and absolutely, yes! And it’s real food.
your truck. we learn from the science, what Not too much, mostly plants. That’s
are the underpinnings of a diet that true in all of the cultures and all of
And we have evidence from a allows us to mitigate, remove, or the studies. Whether the focus is
recent study that even just those reverse chronic disease? on low-glycemic diets or on high
isometric routines where you tense protein diets or low-fat diets or
one group of muscles against Dr. Katz: Food, not too much, plant-based diets or Mediterranean
another can be associated with mostly plants.” And I’m quoting diets or Paleo diets—when they
reductions and mean arterial Michael Pollan. But that’s really work well and improve both weight
pressure and improve your overall the truth. First of all, James, I’m and health—it’s real food. Not too
cardiovascular health. just finishing up now the third much, mostly plant.
edition of my nutrition textbook
So there are ways to get there for healthcare professionals called If the question however is “Can
from here. And we just need to be Nutrition in Clinical Practice. This is we say what very specific diet in
creative and fit fitness in whatever five hundred page comprehensive the never ending beauty pageant
way in works. And then we need textbook that has to run the is the single best?” meaning can
to count our blessings when we gauntlet of a jury of peers. It’s we say that an optimal vegan diet
have the opportunity to move. It’s a used in medical schools. It’s used is better for human health than
good thing. by physicians in practice and an optimal Mediterranean diet
other health professionals. And or than an optimal Paleo diet?”
James: Absolutely. And you’ve really in the third edition, I think we then the answer is absolutely no
teed up one of the other speakers have something very close to ten because those studies have never
in the summit, Darryl Edwards, thousand scientific citations. And so been done. There’s never been a
who’s a friend of mine from the U.K. I have that view from altitude. study that has taken neonates and
who is talking about the evolution randomly assigned them to be
of fitness. And he really says exactly And then I was recently asked by either Vegans or Paleo eaters for
the same thing is that this should Annual Review of Public Health, their entire lives and then follow
not be something that should be which is as the name suggests them for a hundred years to see
done in the gym in certain hour is a peer-reviewed compendium who does the best. For obvious
increments. But how do we actually of major topics in public health reasons, those studies have not
make this the evolution of fitness reviewed once a year. They asked been done. And they’re not likely to
is really to engage in it every day as me to write a paper, “Can We Say be done any time soon.
part of our daily life. What Diet Is Best for Health?” And
So when you look at the evidence I mean, you look back. For example, health. But the other thing I would
we have, it argues very strongly for these days there’s a lot of negative say, James, is that the very reason
a variety of diverse plant foods. And response to the concept of low-fat for health—the reason health
that means vegetables, fruits, beans, eating. But the reality is when low- matters—is because it contributes
lentils, nuts, seeds, with or without fat eating didn’t mean Snackwell to enjoyment in life. It’s not like we
whole grains. I’m a strong advocate cookies, but it meant a diet of all ought to be healthy because
for whole grains. But you could have mostly plants, the studies showed someone’s wagging a finger at
a healthy diet and leave them out as phenomenal things, like the work of us and saying, “There’s a moral
long as you’re getting plenty of fiber Dean Ornish showing the reversal imperative to be healthy.”
from these other sources—with or of coronary arteriosclerosis and the
without fish and seafood, with or prevention of heart attacks. You ought to be healthy because it’s
without eggs, with or without dairy, the right thing to do. I think at times
with or without lean meats—but So, again, the basic theme of we get caught up in that. But when
reliably excluding stuff that glows healthy eating for homosapiens, you think about what health is for, I
in the dark, reliably excluding highly extremely well- established, think health is for living.
processed meats, with an emphasis incredible volume of research
on a healthy array of nutrients, not evidence, amazingly consistent, Health is a currency you can spend
by focusing on nutrients. populations all around the world, on having a better life. The more
which specific diet is best? There health you have, the more you
The way you get to healthy eating is no answer to that. And I think can invest that in doing the things
is not the focus on just sugar that’s a good thing because what you love to do and having more
or just fructose or just sodium it does is give us the opportunity enjoyment.
or just saturated fat or just to choose. Do I want to be vegan
omega-6 fat. If you focus on a or not? Do I want a Mediterranean So absolutely! I think the pleasure
variety of wholesome foods and or Paleo style diet? And that gives we get from food needs to be part
reasonable combinations, as all us the best opportunity to love the of the equation. But my wife and I
of the world’s healthy cultures food that loves us back because we have longed argued for loving food
do, all of the nutrients take care get to choose the variation on the that loves you back. I think you can
of themselves. And the nice thing theme that works best for us and have both.
about this, James—and this is our families.
what the research really shows—is One of the things that can help you
that you’re immune again, to use And, frankly, it’s that combination. get there if you’re not already there
that word, to any serious nutrient Loving the food and having the is what I call taste bud rehab. And
problem when you get foods and food love us back that makes this there’s a whole section in Disease-
food patterns right. sustainable because then you get Proof on that. And what I mean by
pleasure from eating food you like that is that taste buds are adaptable
So for instance, if you eat a and pleasure from having health little fellows. When you don’t let
Mediterranean diet, you don’t have that you like. them be with the foods they think
to focus on avoiding sugar because they love, they learn to love the
you’re eating mostly foods that James: It sounds like there’s been foods you’re with. So you can learn
don’t have added sugar. And it just some serious ongoing placebo to get used to more nutritious foods
takes care of itself. Similarly, you benefits to that for everyone, as and come to prefer them. And you
don’t have to focus on saturated fat well? have to invest in a brief period of
because there’s a lot of saturated transition. But it’s really not all that
fat in grain-fed cattle, for example, Dr. Katz: Placebo benefits, you hard to do.
or if you have a lot of dairy. But mean from the pleasure of loving
you eat a Mediterranean style the food? James: Yeah, I’ve done that myself.
diet and what you tend to get a And I’ve realized that. There was
lot of is mono and saturated fat James: Yeah. a time in my life where I was
and a balance of unsaturated fats, for about six months after the
including omega-3s. It just happens James: Well, I don’t know that it’s university, I was an investment
by virtue of eating the right kinds placebo. But, yeah, in essence, I banker eating a lot of crap. And
of foods in the right combinations. would say that pleasure, first of when I moved to America and
And it’s incredibly powerful all, is a source of health because started working in the field of
medicine. Study after study after just being happy and enjoying alternative medicine in 2005,
study shows amazing benefits. what you’re doing tends to foster there was definitely a period of
adjustment. And I have to say, And it’s nothing you would want to get there from here. And so I think
I can’t drink a Sprite or a Coke drink when you’re actually thirsty. one of the problems with some
now, at all. It just tastes absolutely of my colleagues is they sort of
disgusting, whereas, there was a So the notion that a soda’s a good act like the foodie elite. And I’ve
time in my life where that was the thing, that is the cultivated taste. jokingly compared them to Marie
nicest thing to drink on a hungover I mean when I’m thirsty, water Antoinette. In the French Revolution
Sunday morning. And so that’s a tends to satisfy beautifully. And supposedly when the peasants
change in my taste buds. we’ve just corrupted our palate didn’t have bread, Marie Antoinette
so we don’t even appreciate the said, “Let them eat cake.” Well, you
And so now I have an eleven beautiful simplicity of water. But can sort of compare that to the
months old daughter—she’s over you absolutely can get back there. modern day foodie elite where we
a year now actually—and she eat And then, yeah, you have absolutely could say, “The peasants don’t have
greens and all kinds of things and no interest in the soda. It’s not broccoli.” And the response is, “Well,
puts it away all day. And she loves pleasant. let them eat kale.” You know, that
it. And I’ve seen a lot of her peers doesn’t really help anybody.
that don’t. And I think it’s been James: Exactly. Well, I do want to
amazing to know that and then get into those next four issues. So what we need to do is sort of
actually sort of allow that to happen But I just want to cover a couple go where the people are. We have
for the next generation. of other things here on food. a nutrition guidance system we
Because part of what we see out developed called NuVal. One to a
Dr. Katz: I have five children. And there is that there’s, like you said, hundred, the higher the number,
I’ve been through this with all there’s people that are trying to the more nutritious the food. It’s
of them. And I’ve been through find the absolute optimal diet and been validated against health
it innumerable times with my create new substitute meats or outcomes. The higher the NuVal
patients, James. So, again, we new supplements and so forth that scores of your food, the lower your
completely agree. It’s very, very are going to sort of replace food risk of premature death from any
powerful. altogether. I would imagine from cause, the lower your risk of chronic
what you said already that you’re disease. It’s very powerful.
One of the most powerful not a big fan of fat concept.
determinates of dietary preferences But the idea here is people in the
is familiarity. But you know what Dr. Katz: No. No. I’m not. On the real world do eat food that comes
people tend to think is, “Well, the other hand, I also am a pragmatist. in bags, boxes, bottles, jars, and
foods I’m familiar with just are And so we can’t make perfect the cans. Frankly, so do I. Breakfast
what they are.” But that’s not true. enemy of good. I think the real cereal and breads and such, pasta
You can change them. You can get solution here is getting to the sauces and salad dressings. And the
familiar with more nutritious foods. wholesome foods. But what I am choices you make there can add up
You can rehabilitate your taste in favor of is doing what it takes to to matter enormously to the quality
buds. And if you shift the foods with get there from here. And, frankly, of your diet and your health.
less added sugar, less added salt, for some people the convenience
less added chemicals, you’re exactly and the engineered satiating So I think we can help people by
right. You not only learn to prefer properties of meal replacements engineering our way towards the
those foods, but you can actually can be extremely helpful. I think solution we really want, which is
develop aversions to what you used we can devise snacks and food all the right kinds of foods. But to
to eat and drink. products that can fill gaps in get from here to there, I think at
people’s days and potentially times meal replacements can be
And I’m with you. I haven’t had a provide nutrients that raise the helpful. I think at times conveniently
soda now in thirty-five years. As a quality of their diets. So, again, I packaged foods that are nutrient
kid, I didn’t know any better. I had think ultimately we would like to dense can be helpful. And I think
them. And they were a part of my be there with real food direct from the guidance system to help people
life. I realized very early what they nature. But, at present, that’s out trade up their chips, their crackers,
were about, that this was sort of a of reach for an awful lot of people. their breakfast cereals, their pasta
chemistry experiment in a cup. And And I think we have to fix that. sauces, their yogurts, I think that
I wasn’t interested. And then after I can be really helpful, as well.
gave them up, for some stretch of The other thing we need to do, we
months and went back to taste them can’t just talk about improving food So, again, I’m a public health
again, they’re just sickeningly sweet. choices. We have to help people pragmatist. I can envision the ideal.
But I’m not inclined to make perfect example. There are others. supplement? And I customize those
the enemy of good. I want to do recommendations for my patients.
good in the real world. The bigger issue, I think, is that There’s no one size fits all correct
again if we look from altitude, we answer.
James: Absolutely. So one more have a culture that needs a lot of
thing while we’re on nutrients drugs. I mean, we have a lot of But as a culture, what we could
before we get on to the other four high cholesterol and high blood say is, “If I don’t yet have those
areas. I know with nutrients, the pressure and coronary disease and conditions, how can we make better
first time I heard you speak at Yale diabetes. And once you have all use as lifestyle as medicine so I’m
in 2008, you spoke about CoQ10 that stuff, well then, frankly, you less likely ever to need medication,
and sort of the depletion of statin really do need drugs. And I’m an so my kids are less likely ever to
drugs as a depletor of nutrients. internist. I prescribe medication. need medication?” I’m fifty-one
Is this a serious issue in your But very often, those drugs keep years old. I’ve got five kids and a
estimation? people alive. It’s quite clear, for desk job. And I’m right in the age
example, that when you look at group of my patients who are
Dr. Katz: Well, it is. And certainly overall statin use in appropriate routinely being prescribed lots of
that’s a very well-established patients, statins are associated medications. I take none. My blood
association. There are others. It’s with a reduction in all- cause pressure’s perfect. My lipids are
hard to tell whether the reduction mortality. They are saving lives. perfect.
of CoQ10 levels seen with statin
use are affecting people’s health So then you say, “Okay, well there There’s just nothing on the horizon
adversely, in general. One of the are these adverse effects of the to suggest I’m going to need any of
issues we’ve seen with statin use is drugs. But once you need the drug, the medications I prescribe all the
that in women, in particular, there’s you’re better off taking it because time. And, again, not because I’m
an increased risk of diabetes. I don’t taking the drug is better for you a better person. But because I’m
think we know for sure exactly what than not taking it. The real problem an expert in healthful living, I apply
the mechanism is yet. And does then is that so many of us need that to myself as medicine. And
that have something to do with the the drugs in the first place. And if these are the rewards of it.
depletion of enzymes or co-factors we use lifestyle as medicine, we
or nutrients such as CoQ10? wouldn’t. So the better way is not, James: Absolutely. Well, again, one
“Hey, I need a drug. But I’m not other thing. The last word I would
CoQ10 is a really important going to take it because I don’t like just say on forks. You had that
compound. It functions in the them.” No, that’s a mistake. as one of the strategies. If you’re
mitochondria, which are the eating food that doesn’t require a
engines of the cell. I mean that’s You know that the rate of stroke in fork, that is probably not the right
really where we produce our the United States has come down food, right? Like something that’s
energy. So it’s just a critical element dramatically in recent decades, housed in a couple of buns or
in cell biology. And what CoQ10 James. And the reason for that is something like that?
does there is facilitate the transport not because we’re taking much
of electrons. That’s just the key step better care of ourselves. The reason Dr. Katz: Well, it depends.
in how cells make their energy and for that is better detection and Again, you can put some pretty
run the body. So you certainly don’t treatment of hypertension, the use wholesome stuff on a whole grain.
want to run out of CoQ10. And it’s of really good drugs. But, again, if I’m not opposed to grains. I’m not
very well-established that statin use we did take better care of ourselves, gluten intolerant. And so I’m fine
depletes CoQ10. we wouldn’t need the drugs. And with whole grain wheat. We eat a
then you don’t have to worry about variety of grains in my house. My
In some cases, in my experience, side effects or nutrient depletion. wife does wonderful things with
James, the muscle pain that can bulgur wheat, which is a mainstay
occur with statin use goes away So for now, I would say, if you’ve in many of the Mediterranean
when you supplement CoQ10. So got diabetes, hypertension, diets. We eat quinoa routinely.
sometimes the answer is, “Well, heart disease—any of these We actually, occasionally, have
you really do need the drug. And it things—be open-minded about amaranth. We have wild rice, just a
is affecting a nutrient level in your medication use. Work with your wide variety. You know, they’re rich
body. And the right responses to doctor. Discuss with your doctor. in a variety of nutrients, fiber. So I
supplement the nutrition.” So it’s an Ask about nutrients. Nutrient like them. And honestly, I like bread.
important issue. This is one specific depletion. Should you take a My wife is French. I mean, give me a
great whole grain bread and a good premature death are. So we used mistake. And it needs to go away.
bit of goat cheese and a great red to think that the leading causes of That’s all there is to it.
wine. That’s a great treat. death were the diseases that show
up on death certificates: heart Unlike food, which is complicated.
Now, I wouldn’t eat that for health disease, cancer, stroke, respiratory You know, food can do us harm, of
every day. But I’m not going to diseases, diabetes, and so on. course, when we make bad choices.
take it off my menu entirely either But it’s critical to life. We can’t reject
because we were just discussing a But in 1993, there was a publication it. We have to make it work for us.
little bit ago, pleasure is important, called “Actual Causes of Death We can reject tobacco completely.
too. And that can be a very in the United States” that looked It’s was a huge boondoggle. It’s
pleasurable thing. So I think there’s beyond that to the factors that just a historical tragedy. It needs to
a balance to be struck. cause those diseases that in turn go away. I love the movie Avatar,
cause the premature deaths. And in James Cameron’s Avatar. But the
But yes, in general, what we can say that paper, actual causes of death one thing I didn’t like in the movie
about the best foods is that they’ve in the United States published in because it’s this presumably distant
got a very short ingredient list. JAMA in 1993, the number one future we’re in was that one of the
And the best foods of all have an leading cause of death in the U.S. scientists in the movie smokes. And
ingredient list of just one word. was tobacco. And it still probably is. I thought, “I don’t even believe that
would be possible to go that far into
You know, the ingredient in But the gap between tobacco as the future and still have that stuff
broccoli is broccoli. And walnuts are number one and the combination around.” I think it will be long gone
walnuts. And salmon is salmon. And of bad use of feet and forks—not by then.
bananas are bananas. You know, being active enough and eating
that’s sort of what we’re aiming for. badly—have narrowed quite a bit. James: Yeah. No, I think you might
And then they tend to come in less- And it may very well be that bad be right. All right, so let’s look at the
involved packaging. A lot of the best use of feet and forks is now number other three areas. Because those
foods, they just come to you right one for two reasons. One good. three that you’ve just mentioned
from nature. The packaging is a One bad. The good reason is we are typically sort of Public Health
peel as opposed to a box. smoke a lot less than we used to. 101, right? And now, we’re getting
And the bad is we haven’t made the into some maybe other areas that
But you can get some pretty good progress we need with regard to you mentioned earlier, the stress
stuff in a box or a bag, as well. And, physical activity and diet. and love and other things like that.
again, I think there’s a balance to be Do you want to just talk on why this
struck. But it’s really that simple. If you has become part of your sort of
are exposed at fairly high levels recommendation’s list now?
James: Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, in your population to tobacco, it
I think that’s a great last word on quickly becomes the leading cause Dr. Katz: The evidence is really
food because this is such a big of premature death. And that’s not very strong about sleep. That
controversy. And it will continue really the worst of it. I mean, you it has profound influences on
to be like that. But I think it’s just know dying prematurely is bad health, including those aspects of
important to just get really clear enough. But people who die from health that tend to be the modern
where the leverage is. And I think conditions induced by tobacco don’t preoccupation.
you’ve been very clear on that. die quickly for the most part. They
die slowly. So, for example, weight control.
So let’s go on to the next one. Sleep deprivation is commonly
You said fingers. Do you want to It’s a miserable death, things like a factor in difficulty with weight
just sort of take us through from emphysema and lung cancer control, both because it’s hard
matters of public health or public and COPD. They’re really, really to eat in a thoughtful, restrained
health state of how important unpleasant. And before they take way when you’re tired and cranky.
the fingers are when it comes to years from your life, they take life But also because when your sleep
longevity? out of your years. So I don’t think pattern is disrupted, it disrupts
we can overstate the significance of hormonal balance, which, in turn,
Dr. Katz: So we’re referring there tobacco as a scourge in the world. I directly conspires against weight
to holding cigarettes. It’s tobacco. would like to see it banished to the control and helps put calories right
Since 1993, we’ve had a literature dustbin of history. You know, it’s where you don’t want them to go—
telling us what the root causes of proves to have been a humongous around your middle—where they
do the most harm and that sort of then because you’re unhealthy, it’s Well, what we try to do is say,
thing. hard to get out and do anything. “Okay. Let’s look at all of them.
So you become more isolated and And put them in a sequence and
And there’s a pretty comparable more lonely. And you start to go figure out which one of these do
body of information regarding down the tubes. we need to focus on first. Maybe
stress, both as a factor in adverse it’s sleep. Maybe it’s pain. Let’s try
health outcomes and as a factor If your problem is sleep, you’re treating that. And then as soon as
that conspires against weight just exhausted all the time. So we get a little bit of benefit out of
because then you wind up eating to you don’t have the energy or the that treatment, we either improve
relieve the stress. And sort of food motivation to eat well or exercise. your sleep by doing the right thing
becomes the medicine and so forth. So you don’t do those. And you start or we improve your pain by treating
to gain weight. And then because it effectively, our agreement then is
But also evidence that other things you’ve gained weight, you have we’ll take what we gain and invest it
being equal, stress can increase the sleep apnea. So you sleep less back in you. And work on the next
likelihood of and the progression and become more exhausted and thing. So if we improve your sleep,
of heart disease, cancer, diabetes. crankier and eat more poorly and we’ll then work on your pain. And
People who are overwhelmed by exercise even less. And down the we’ll then work on exercise. If we
stress don’t recover from chronic tubes you go. improve your pain, we’ll then work
disease when they get it. The on your sleep and then work on
evidence is really very strong. The other thing that we could add exercise and then move on to diet.”
to this mix is chronic pain. Very
And then, finally, it’s equally strong common problem because one of And so what was kind of this
for what can be summarized as the chronic diseases that plagues degenerating spiral down the tubes
love. And what that really refers modern society is arthritis. So you can become the very opposite.
to—it’s not specifically romantic may have joint pain, which makes It can become a spiral staircase
love, although, that’s a wonderful it hard to exercise. Which makes ascending step-by-step up to the
thing— but just strong emotional you gain weight. Which then, may health and vitality that everybody
connections. John Donne told interfere with your sleep. So now, wants. And everybody deserves.
us centuries ago, “No man is you’re exhausted. Making it even
an island.” It’s still true. We are harder to exercise. So you gain And that’s the benefit, James, I think,
social creatures. Men, women, more weight. So your arthritis gets of recognizing that it’s not just about
and children alike, we need one worse. And on and on it goes. diet. And it’s not just about physical
another. And if you’re isolated activity. It is about feet, forks, fingers,
and lonely, it conspires against So the only way to fix all of these sleep, stress, and love.
your health. You’re less resilient. things really is to look at all of them
When you need help, of course, together and think holistically. It’s about our relationships. It is
there are the people to provide it. We have a whole section in about whether or not we have pain
But there just isn’t that emotional Disease-Proof on sizing yourself in our lives that’s interfering with
support that needs to be part of our up holistically. And then you can exercise. You have to look at the
existence every day. We just don’t reverse engineer this. whole picture.
thrive in isolation. We thrive as part
of a tribe. So the evidence is strong So, for example, pick a typical And, again, the science is very
for all of these. patient in my practice who’s strong on each one of these
maybe in their sixties, has obesity independently. But, I think, an
And from my perspective, and and maybe type II diabetes, but, equally important message is we’ve
certainly, writing Disease-Proof, the certainly, insulin resistance. And got to connect the dots because we
issue was we need to look at health their lipids are abnormal. And their really can reverse engineer these
holistically. It’s either intact or it’s blood pressure’s high. And they processes that otherwise conspire
not. And the interesting thing is have arthritis and in chronic pain. against our health and vitality.
that any one of these can conspire And they don’t sleep well. And
against the other. So imagine they don’t eat well. And they don’t James: Yeah. And it seems like in a
you’re just lonely. Well, then the exercise. And when you talk about holistic paradigm, just improvement
motivation to exercise or eat well any one of these things, you get any in any one of these sort of sends you
starts to go away. And so you don’t of the others as an excuse. “I’m too moving more upwards in sort of like
do those. And then you gain weight. tired. I’m too lonely. I’m in pain.” an upwards spiral versus any one of
And you start to get unhealthy. And And on and on it goes. them if there is a negative impact, as
you said, it starts a negative spiral. Dr. Katz: Well, again, what we’ve be responsible, sensible to acquire
So it’s really about just trying to find been talking about for most of skills. That there isn’t magical pixie
one of them to kick-start you in an this hour, James, is lifestyle as dust. We need to think about health
upward direction. And then you see medicine. I’m the president now of a little bit more like wealth. You
the progress in all of them, probably, the American College of Lifestyle know, something that you invest
right? Medicine. That’s really where my in, nurture, cultivate, share with
passion resides. And what means is the people you love, bequeath to
Dr. Katz: All the time. It’s a if lifestyle is the medicine, then the your children. You raise children
very, very powerful process and doctor is you. And so, frankly, every who aspire to it. I mean we could
extremely gratifying for doctor one of us. And we were agreeing have all of that if we just change the
and patient alike. So in my clinic, before if you want to change way we think. And then change the
I’m directly involved in this. But I the world, it starts by changing way we act. So I see that the best
also think people can do this on ourselves. and brightest future in medicine,
their own just by getting the right pertaining to how we function as
perspective. And so, that the point Because when enough of us buy patients, frankly.
of this whole section in Disease- better food, then the food supply
Proof was to empower people to improves, that sort of thing. James: And is that one of the
address this on their own. You reasons why you still take such
know, whether or not there’s a I think that’s true of medicine, good care of yourself? Because
doctor involved, look at yourself as well. If we want to be treated I definitely see that people don’t
holistically, kind of get a handle on, holistically as patients, I think we really like to be told what to do.
“What is it that makes it so hard for need to start looking at ourselves But they do sort of look to models
me to eat well? Can I focus right holistically and acknowledging that or examples of people that have
away on diet? Or are there other our relationships matter and that done it and look to copy them. But
things I need to think about first?” whether or not you’re satisfied everyone has an opinion, even if
with your work and your career is you’re the head of public health.
Frankly, if you’ve got a toxic important and cultivating love and People just don’t generally like to
relationship, a marriage that’s friendship in your life is important be told what to do. So it seems like
dysfunctional or if you hate your and prioritizing sleep. I think it can the knock on effect of actually doing
job, that may be the thing that begin with every one of us. this in your community and doing
needs attention first. So, again, it for yourself. And letting everyone
looking at the big picture really, I think there is a revolution in else in your community see that
really important. And those key medicine. I think medicine should you’ve taken this responsibility
elements in the big picture often be more holistic, more integrative, rather than sort of preaching is
are feet, fork, fingers, sleep, stress, emphasize lifestyle, should be more going to be a better strategy for
and love. about cultivating health than just taking this message outwards?
treating disease. And we could talk
But again, it has to be customized. about different specialists who Dr. Katz: I think so. I don’t like being
And we need to be honest with could have a hand in that. Maybe told what to do. But I don’t mind
ourselves. Identify the priorities in it’s the pediatricians because they’re being told what’s what. Knowledge
our lives. And then remember that taking care of kids. Maybe it’s the is power. I like to have the truth. So
making your life good is what this is cardiologist or the endocrinologist. I much of my focus is simply telling
really all about. And so relationships don’t really see it that way. people what’s what.
and job and career and all of those
things figure in it. That’s part of I think, again, the best medicine But, yeah, I think, frankly the issue
health, too. is lifestyle. And the spoon for that here is one of empowerment.
kind of medicine isn’t so much the And I also think, we want to take
James: So which people in medicine clinic is culture and each of us is the the moral overtones out of the
because this whole conference is patient. But each of us can be the discussion. One of the problems
on the evolution of medicine? And doctor, as well. We can administer with discussions about health is it
what we’re really interested in is this to ourselves. feels like I’m being told what to do.
seeing the way that medicine is You know, someone’s wagging their
evolving. Who in medicine or who So I think it’s simply a matter of finger at me and telling me, “Lose
outside of medicine is in the best opening up our eyes, recognizing weight. Lower your cholesterol.”
position to kick start this upward that we have substantial control over And that’s why I routinely discuss
spiral? our medical destinies, committing to with my patients what health is for.
They come to me. there for us. There’s just this huge part of the solution. So I think it can
opportunity. Eighty percent of all be a significant part of the solution.
We’re talking about these things. chronic disease could go away if we And I think it will be.
And I say, “By the way, what is this turned what we have long known
all for?” “Well, I want to be healthy. I into what we routinely do. And until James: Excellent! I appreciate you
don’t want to be…” “But why?” that day dawns, I’m going to keep sharing that. So you’re probably
doing what I do because I really more qualified than almost anyone
Well, the answer to all of that is to would like to see it happen. on this summit to talk about this
have a better life. So this isn’t for evolution of medicine from a
me. It’s not because you should. It’s James: Absolutely. And one other public health point of view. I really
because healthy people have more area that’s just where medicine appreciate all the things that you’ve
fun. And who could object to that. is evolving is this move from sort shared today.
And after that, when you agree on of analog to digital. And we could
that, then it’s not about being told definitely be looking at a time in the Is there anything else that you’d
what to do. very near future where everyone like to share? When you really think
has an iWatch. And the iWatch is about the evolution of medicine
It’s just, “Yes. I want that. Now, let’s keeping track of a hundred different and sort of your role in it as it has
talk about how best to get there health numbers. And patients are been and your role moving forward,
from here.” getting this information in various is there something about the
forms, through different apps. evolution of medicine, particularly,
James: Absolutely. And I think one that you’d like to share?
of the things why I’m really excited What do you think is the promise
about the functional medicine or the potential of that digital Dr. Katz: Well, I suppose the final
model is that it allows to have revolution for getting that comment here, James, is we don’t
more time at the beginning of the information, for empowerment in really have a choice. We need a
conversation to be able to find out these areas? revolution. Right now in the United
“why” for the patient that’s sitting States, the Centers for Disease
in front of you. Everyone has a Dr. Katz: Well, again, I think we’ve Control is projecting that should
different “why.” For some people, engineered our way into this mess current trends persist, by about the
if they’re older, they want to be with highly processed food and middle of the century, one in three
able to play with their grandkids. labor-saving technology. I think to American adults will be diabetic.
For some people, it’s exactly what some extent, we have to engineer That’s over a hundred million
you’re saying, to have a better life. our way out. people.
But it seems like uncovering that
“why” on a case-by-case basis is an And we have evidence that some We’re having trouble paying the bills
important role in medicine. of the very things that are a part of right now. And they are only twenty-
the problem like video games that seven million diagnosed diabetics
Dr. Katz: I couldn’t agree more. And, encourage kids to be sedentary in the U.S. A hundred million is
again, James, I think it’s a role the can be converted into part of the just not sustainable. I don’t think
doctor can participate in. But it’s solution because we make them the country can be solvent. So
also something we each, basically, invite physical activity. Similarly, a whatever the mission we’re involved
do for ourselves. You know, “What lot of the things that modern living in related to health, frankly we
is it I want in my life?” But whatever invites people to neglect like moving find ourselves on the front lines
the answer is, whether it’s time with their feet, technology reminds them of nothing less than homeland
your grandkids or you love to golf or not to neglect, like counting their security. So, unless, we have this
you love to ski or whatever, you’re steps and tracking their activity and revolution in medicine where
going to be able to do more of it and so forth. lifestyle becomes the medicine,
do it for longer if you’re healthy than where it’s more about prevention
if you’re sick. It’s just that simple. So At the end of the day, again, you and less about treatment, we are
I think, all of us would prefer to be look at blue zones and places where going to bequeath to our children
healthy than sick. people just live well. They tend not an absolutely unsustainable
to be highly technology dependent. burden.
What we get out of being healthy is But to some extent, the horse has
very individualized. But the prize for left the barn. We are in a highly So, yes, there are elements of
each of us is having more of the life technologized world. And now it evolution that we clearly need in
we want to have. And, again, it’s out can either be part of the problem or medicine. But, frankly, we need a
revolution. And we need it pretty This has been The Evolution of
darned soon. And the good news Medicine. Dr. David Katz, I really
is we have all the knowledge we appreciate you taking time to be on
need. We should have all the the summit. I really appreciate all
passion we need because this the work that you’re doing through
is affecting people we love. This the different organizations that you
is not a job where we need new work with and also through the
Nobel Prizes to figure out how to internet to get this word out there.
get it done. We know how to do It’s been absolutely fantastic to
it. We just have lacked the resolve have you here on the summit. And
to get it done, to make culture the I hope that the ripple effects of this
medium and lifestyle the medicine summit go some way towards what
to get the job done. you’ve been espousing today.

We really aren’t going to have much And we look forward to continuing

choice. It’s a bit like climate change. to watch your career. And who
We’ve sort of reached a point where knows where it might take you as
the consequences of failing to act far as being able to pull the lead
are simply too great. And as being able to make some of
it’s unfortunate to have to get this change. But it’s been great
pushed up against the wall before to have you here today. And
you take action. But when you are we’ll look forward to hopefully
pushed up against the wall, you’re communicating more in the future.
out of choices. We’re kind of out of
choices. So I think whether we call Dr. Katz: Thank you very much, as
it evolution or it’s a bit more abrupt well. It’s been my pleasure. And I
than that and it’s revolution, I think appreciate the help in getting the
this basic change in the character word out. So my thanks to you.
of medicine is inevitable because I
don’t think we have options. I think James: All right. Thank you!
we have to do this. And the good
news is we will all be beneficiaries So this has been The Evolution of
of it. Medicine Summit. Lots of great
other speakers today and all the
James: Absolutely. And the way that way through the week. This has
you see these things going down been Dr. David Katz. And we’ll see
generations, it’s not just doing it to you next time!
ourselves. But you have five kids.
I have kids, too. And I think if you
look at it from that point of view,
there’s definitely something that
needs to be paid.

And the last thing I would say is

there’s a great quote that I saw
yesterday is, “May you never know
what you prevented.” I think part
of this is that it’s a lot easier to
be reactive to something that’s
obviously a big problem, like you
have a disease. With preventive
medicine, we really have to put that
to the forefront so that everyone
can see the value in it. And I think
you’ve shared that so eloquently
today.
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