5/15/2019 Diagnosis and adaptation of DSG-7 — logbook Volkswagen Touran 2008 on DRIVE2

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Volkswagen Touran "white Sky" › Logbook › Auto-Translated Original (RU)

Diagnosis and adaptation of DSG-7

weber101 last online 2 hours ago

I drive Volkswagen Touran "white Sky"

Moscow, Russia

So I decided to make the same record myself in the log book, so as not to seek. Thanks to the driver of whose
link at the bottom of the article.
All that will be described below concerns only the DSG-7 0AM DQ-200 box with dry clutches, and does not
apply to the DSG-6 02E DQ-250 gearbox.
To the writing of the material pushed the conference on Yeti-Clube here: www.club-
yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=1870
Material was collected by bit, incl. from there.
As you know, this gearbox uses a double clutch, invented and manufactured by LUK. On the problems of the
design has long been known, it is a feature of dry clutches, as well as the lack of vibration damper vibration on
the 2nd clutch disc, which largely influenced the appearance of vibrations in the 2nd gear. Nevertheless,
despite the discomfort, the practice showed a rather high resistance to the wear of clutches, but everyone
wants to know what is currently the development of clutches, and how much they have to ride. This material is
devoted to the analysis of the remainder and the quality of the clutch discs' operation.
At once I will tell, the basic kinematic difference DSG7 from a mechanical transmission is that in a mechanical
transmission two basic positions of coupling — it is included (a pedal is released) and it is switched off (a pedal
is clamped). The average positions are only at the moment of starting from the place, then the driver does not
touch this pedal, except the switching times. In the DSG7, the same clutches are normally open and the
mechatronic clamps the clutch proportionally to the moment to be transmitted, i. E. as it were playing squeezing
stocks. The more we press the gas, the stronger the corresponding mechatronics rod comes out and clamps
the friction. Accordingly, there is an operating range of the rods, and there are limit values. When the thickness
of the clutch is worn out extremely, the stroke of the rods is no longer sufficient, and the disc begins to slip.
Also, the disc may begin to slip earlier, due to the loss of its properties from overheating or deformation of the
material of the clutches. A natural consequence of this will be overheating of the discs, for this purpose one
more criterion of evaluation is also important: a temperature map.
Thus, the evaluation of the state and quality of the coupling is reduced to an assessment of the mechanical and
temperature parameters of the operation. In order to evaluate the first parameter, it is best to do this while
traveling on the tested car with a laptop to remove the parameters in the dynamics, they will most clearly show
the current state of the clutches.
The diagram below shows the graphs of the limit values of the stroke of the rods, and the operating range. As
wear of the clutches, the blue curve shifts to the right, and when it reaches the limit value, the gearbox requires
intervention to replace the clutch.

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5/15/2019 Diagnosis and adaptation of DSG-7 — logbook Volkswagen Touran 2008 on DRIVE2

Fig. 1.
For diagnosis, we will need a VAG-COM lanyard, or a Russian analogue VASYA-Diagnost. We connect, go to
Block 02 "Transmission Electronics" (02-Auto Trans), we look at the software version. The last 4 digits are in
the upper right field, in this case 2680. Do not forget, fresh software is one of the conditions for a longer
operation of the box, since it incorporates corrections and optimization of operating modes.

Fig. 2.
Then click on the "Measuring Blocks" (Meas. Blocks — 08).
First go to the measured groups of the 1st disk, 95, 96 and 97. Read the parameters. The analysis of the data
consists in constructing a graph similar to Fig. 1, from which it becomes clear how far the curve of the working
stroke from the limiting value is. However, this question can be clarified even without plotting, it is enough only
to subtract from the limit value of stroke (in this case 27.0 mm) the value of the current limit position of the rod
at which the maximum torque (in this case 21.3 mm) is transmitted. Total we get: 27,0-21,3 = 5,7 mm —
"reserve" of the stroke, which is gradually "selected" as the wear of the clutch. In Fig. 1 it is called "Residual.
power reserve".
Similar operations are performed for the second disk in the measured groups 115, 116 and 117. Here we obtain
27.0 — 22.2 = 4.8 mm.
How "terrible" are these millimeters? Is it good or not? In fact, the remainder of the moves themselves do not
completely reflect the remnants of the clutch, they only indirectly talk about wear, but there is an unconditional
dependence. The smaller the margin remains to the limit value, the greater the wear if the clutch has been
installed and adjusted correctly, and the number and thickness of the spacer spacers has been determined
correctly. After all, after replacing the clutch, you can see that the rest is only 2 mm, this indicates that the clutch
is not installed correctly. Usually, on a new clutch, the power reserve is between 5 and 6.5 mm when properly
installed.

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Fig. 3. Parameters for the 1st disk.

Fig. 4. Parameters for the 2nd disc.

It is much more important to determine the speed of wear of the clutch to take these parameters regularly, say
every 15,000 km (for TO) and compare the residuals and the rate of their change. For example, if it was 6.0
mm, and after 15000 km there was 4.0 — then this is worse than say 4.8 mm, and after 15000 it was 4.3. But
even here everything is not smooth. The fact is that these current (which we measured) values are recorded in
memory after the last trip, and as we drove, smoothly, or not hesitantly pressed gas — will also impose an
imprint on the result of measurements.
For the full picture, we need to ride and measure the parameters in the dynamics. Ideally, to find a flat desert
road, preferably not slippery, so you can go to the mode of transmission of the maximum moment without
slipping. It is better to do it together, one taxis, the other removes the parameters.
To measure the parameters in the dynamics, we need to enter the group 91 and 111 (for the 1st and 2nd disk,
respectively)

Fig. 5. Current position of the rods.

Press the Graph button, adjust the scale, convenient for displaying (I put 0 — 30 mm) and actually start the
movement. Both in D mode and in manual mode at the set speed (preferably 4-5-6) so as not to slip.
Sequentially measure the dynamics of the stroke on an odd and even coupling. As a result of the trip, the
following graphs are obtained:

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Fig. 6. Movement in mode D. Green — 1st disc, light green — 2nd disc.

Fig. 7. Movement in manual mode with a different effort of pressing the gas pedal. Green — 1st disc, green —
2nd disc.
It can be seen from the graphs that the positions of the rods are very far from the limiting value (27.0 mm). The
tested car — Skoda Octavia 1,8TSI with a practically new clutch, the road conditions were unfortunately not
very dry, and the road was not the most free, we sometimes allowed wheel slippage, and it can be seen from
the graph that the strokes of the rods are even to 20.0 mm not much approaching, that is, no more than 200
Nm of torque was transmitted.
So, if in the peak of the loads the graphs did not reach the upper bar with reserve, then everything is in order
and at this mechanical testing can be considered complete. Now let's turn to the temperature modes of
operation. The statistical picture for both discs is read in groups 99, 102 for the 1st disc and 119 and 122 for the
2nd disc.

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Fig. 8. Temperature map of the 1st clutch disc.

Fig. 9. Temperature map of the 2nd clutch disc.

It can be seen from the pictures that my grip practically did not have critical operating modes, and the main time
worked at temperatures below 150 degrees, and even more than 75% of the time below 100 degrees. This is
confirmed by the following measured groups 98 and 118 for the 1st and 2nd disks respectively:

Fig. 10. Drive parameters: Coefficient of friction, deformation of discs and temperature limits.
The friction coefficient ranges from 0.95 to 1.00 (although sometimes the sensor shows more than one, this is
an indirect measurement feature) and depends on the current temperature. If the coefficient of friction is much
lower — an alarming symptom. Also, the deformation of the clutch plates — I do not have, it is also measured
indirectly. The last column — the maximum value of the temperature of the disks shows how the disc was
heated up during the entire period of operation of the car. I also had about 225 degrees on the 2nd disk, but in
the process of measuring for writing this manual, I clamped the handbrake and turned on the reverse, and so I
released the brake periodically and just pressed the gas until I saw that the values had exceeded the previous
maximum . Thus, I found out that it is possible to warm up and even overheat clutch disks in just 2-3 minutes.
Further, in order to understand how the disks are heated in dynamics, we select the measurements of the
current temperature of the disks and build the graphs based on the indications of group 126:

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Fig. 11. Temperature schedule of the operation of the clutches.

To achieve visible peaks of temperature growth during switching, I pressed the accelerator more forcefully. The
figures show the slopes of the graph, at what speeds the readings were taken. The yellow chart is disk 1, odd
transmissions, Blue chart is disk 2, even transmissions. Conclusion — the more we squeeze gas, the more
heated discs are heated. If you start annealing — then overheating drives is not a big problem. And now fans of
chip-tuning on DSG — think about whether it's worth it. As the temperature of the discs increases, the
coefficient of friction also falls and there is a temperature deformation of the discs, as well as the notorious
smell of the burned disc, if this is done frequently, then an "avalanche" deterioration of the parameters will
begin. The truth is, DSG also comes to the rescue, when the drives overheat, it simply disconnects the clutch
and gives an error that takes some time to cool the discs, the so-called. warning of overheating. I have not seen
this, and the values in groups 100 and 120 are respectively zero.
To assess the temperature dynamics, I spent half a day skating with a laptop in the usual city mode, both on
traffic jams and on free roads. Was surprised that if you calmly ride on moderate traffic jams (others nebylo),
then the temperature of the discs rarely exceeds 100 degrees. If you run from a traffic light to a traffic light in a
stream, the average temperature keeps at a level of 100-110 degrees. And if in the evening to burn on desert
roads, then the average temperature will be 140-150 degrees, in peaks reach 200 degrees. It seems that in
order to raise the temperature by 200, it is necessary either to drift or to press on gas with the clamped handle
(which I did on the reverse test with the clamped handle). On this pro temperature finish.
Additional general parameters of the box can be seen in groups 56, 57 and 58 — they show mechatronics
errors. If all the fields are 65535, then there are no mechatronic errors.

Fig. 12. Number of errors mechatronics (inverse indication), 65535 — no errors.

Well, the final measurement parameter is the number of adaptations, group 180 for the 1st disc, and group 200
for the 2nd.

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Fig. 13. The number of adaptations mechatronics for the 1st and 2nd disk.
Usually the number of adaptations of the second disk is three times larger than the first. More precisely, the
ratio A1 / A2 = 1/3 and should not exceed this value. If it is more than 0.33, this is an alarming symptom,
speaks of non-stationarity of the parameters of the disk, roughly speaking mechatronics does not find a place
for correct work and is constantly looking for it.

What conclusions can we draw from all this?

The devil is not so terrible as he is painted. The physics of DSG7 is quite simple and understandable if you
understand it and adjust it to its optimal work — it will last a long time, if not, then how will it work out. Engineers
VAG and fight over how this "how it goes" was as long as possible in time, realizing that a common man in the
street does not want to delve into (and he should not) the subtlety of the work of this mechanism. However, the
task of those who still tried to understand is to do it as competently as possible, and it is possible to help the
townsfolk make their life more happy.

Adaptation of DSG-7 0AM box — is it necessary? From my experience I can say — that is not needed. The box
itself adapts to the changing parameters of the disc. Forced adaptation can be done if there was a software
update, a global reset, the presence of errors or the replacement of a box, but I will say for sure, this is
definitely not the point for which it is worth taking money. Keep in mind, do not pay money for something that
will not help you if there really are problems, even if you were promised that the problem should go away, as an
example — to eliminate the vibration in the 2nd gear. The nature of vibrations is quite different! And after a
while they will appear again. Therefore, diagnose the box correctly!

PS. This is not the final version of the manual, I will refresh it and complement it as new and interesting facts
are revealed. Feedback is appreciated. I do not pretend to be true in the last instance, tried to cheat as clearly
as possible and make the assessment of parameters easy and affordable.
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5/15/2019 Diagnosis and adaptation of DSG-7 — logbook Volkswagen Touran 2008 on DRIVE2

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Comments 3

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DuxNIA

По моему так гениальный трактат ))) всмысле полезности!

+2 1y

sytchev

Интересный материал и необходимый. Воспользуюсь

обязательно. Зачем только было все копировать вчистую, можно
просто было ссыль добавить и написать рекомендую к
прочтению например. Как-то нехорошо имхо
+1 1y

weber101

Я же указал на ссылку и поблагодарил одноклубника! .А

данную статью нашёл на vw-bus-
club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1422971
+3 1y

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