Jura

oh, anders sounds pretty angry when saying the irving line. it's one of those few that sounds esp kind of sincerely hurt, i suppose, you know, the same way he gets riled up in some of his dialogue where he drops the jokey demeanor fpr a moment. which is interesting in general considering how irving described to treat him in thedas info book, like asking the templars to go easier on the boy but then regretting going soft him. and all anders has to say in return is that he hated him, and means it

i think it makes sense to me that anders would genuinely hate irving and it also makes me want to eat drywall so here’s some thoughts on that

being a first enchanter is probably the most privileged position in a circle and it’s also the worst job you could ever have. you’re leader and advocate of the mages. to the templars, you’re the voice of opposition and discord. to the mages, you’re the guy who works closest to the templars, deciding to make compromises, agreeing to make certain mages tranquil, overseeing harrowings, and placating the rebellious. and if you don’t balance this, all those people under your care are going to die

in many ways, irving and greagoir are the intended ideal of a first enchanter and knight-commander. world of thedas vol2 says: “it is a surprise to many that irving often credits knight-commander greagoir for his success as first enchanter. [...] though their friendship was never entirely without conflict, mutual respect and understanding resulted in a working partnership rarely seen in the circle leadership.” (i consider the first part a veiled joke at greagoir’s expense but that’s my very specific irving characterisation lmao.) in the mage origin, irving and greagoir are constantly arguing, but the very fact that irving can do that on the regular while visibly appearing on a fairly even footing is a mark of the respect he holds. it’s a rlly different energy to, say, meredith and orsino’s arguments. likewise, greagoir’s trust in irving during broken circle is phenomenal: he straight up will not annul his demon-infested circle if his first enchanter says it’s alright.

so the trust irving holds with the templars saves the circle. it also makes kinloch hold one of the most lenient circles in southern thedas—yes, it’s still a circle, it’s horrible, but the freedoms that some of the senior enchanters have are insane. you do not win that kind of trust from the templars without concessions. you do not win it, for example, without being the kind of first enchanter who does things like lure apprentices into blood magic and then hand over anyone willing to try it to the templars. it doesn’t surprise me that every part of irving’s behaviour reads as treachery to anders, the guy who said, “i will not stand by and watch while you treat all mages as criminals while those who would lead us bow to their templar jailers!” (emphasis mine, directed at orsino during the last straw.) it’s not in anders’ nature to be particularly charitable to those who collaborate with the circle. the trust irving holds with greagoir puts them visibly on the same team

irving cared about anders. he “took pity on the tearful boy”, he was “endeared” by his friendliness and charm, he “looked upon anders with sympathy”. he told the templars to be kinder to him, and he even made efforts to arrange time outdoors for him and the other apprentices. he worries about anders after karl is taken to the gallows, telling him that even a first enchanter might no longer be able to protect him if he tries anything, implying he has been protecting him all this time, and overall it’s heavily heavily implied that if it hadn’t been for irving’s influence anders would be tranquil or dead. so where’s “i hated that bastard” coming from? because from anders’ perspective, i think even all this still reads like cowardice and treachery. when you’re twelve years old and crying and missing home and you get dragged to someone’s office after your escape attempt, it looks like they have all the power, and all irving ever did with it was cave to the templars to get his meagre little liberties and tell everyone there was no other way. i also don’t doubt that anders deeply resents the idea that he should have to be grateful to anyone for the above. grateful for the privilege of his life? for being allowed not to have his very emotions stolen from him? for a supervised day under the sun if he’s well-behaved? perhaps next he can write them all thank you letters for his hands, since they didn’t cut them off. maybe after that he can pay the rent he owes for the cell he was in solitary confinement in

to anders, i think even everything good irving managed to do for the mages under his care, they’re all placating measures, designed to keep them just comfortable enough in their cages not to break the bars. that’s not necessarily a kindness to the mages, not in the eyes of the guy who came to the conclusion that there can be no compromise, there can be no peace. i don’t think those thoughts are as ummm coherent during awakening—you’re getting them in the simplistic rebellious form of “i hated that bastard” for a reason, it reads like a leftover from a teenage grudge against a teacher (which it also is!), and oversll i think it’s more personal and complicated than all this political reading because irving was so much a part of his life—but they’re there. as a last point on real hatred from anders, i think it’s worth saying that irving was probably aware of and somewhat complicit in things like karl being transferred and anders’ solitary confinement, not to mention presiding over their harrowings and being involved in the making tranquil of surely many people that anders knew. like those are compromises irving made and was probably present for, regardless of whether you think he had any real choices

this is so long but i love thinking abt both characters so much. i’ll leave it there. as usual just thinking out loud, open to discussion etc