ivy

Why is cardan different from the other fae / how his upbringing affects his behaviors

hi! Thannk you for the ask! This one’s kinda long but first I’ll start w fae natures:

I wouldn’t say the fae are crueler than humans, they seem to be less empathetic. humans also have the capacity to be cruel and awful, and since fae cannot lie, i imagine they are pretty closed off from the get go. They naturally want to be sneaky to protect themselves. not all of them are cruel, but they certainly can have the capacity to be. Just like humans.

also they cannot help their natures. A lot of fae prize fun and trickery above all, and so they find it by being awful. it’s just in their nature. They see the world differently, they are immortal, so simple things like protecting feelings of others or mortal lives are unimportant to them.

Now i can only speculate using what we know, but here’s what i think.

First of all, cardans upbringing.

most fae children are raised similarly to him, cast out to fend for itself. Cardan was the same except he grew up a prince.

he was told that he’s an important little prince, to be doted on momentarily then forgotten about.

he never had a midwife, his father never cared for him, his siblings treated him like an animal, the cat that fed him breastmilk fled from him.

cardan always wanted to be loved, TRULY loved. he detested fake admiration. and he never not one received real, true, healthy love.

Love from balekin was abuse, love from his mother was taking advantage of his title, love from nicasia was using him for power. no one loved cardan.

despite the love he gave, he never received.

He was not cruel for nothing. He did it because despite being a prince he felt powerless. He was the youngest prince, destined to cause ruin and unlikely to ever sit atop the throne.

So that’s what he did, he felt obligated to prove to everyone that the prophecy over his head would be true, he did it mostly for attention from his father, because it was all he knew from his mother / to be petty and prove to his father that he was even worse than he imagined- and mostly because it kept him with the smallest amount of power he had.

but that’s not all. he lashed out a lot because he was afraid of being seen as weak. like i mentioned above, his siblings all saw him at his weakest, even if he was a child. and he hated that. he didn’t want them to think lesser of him, i think part of him wanted them to admire him, if not fear him.

being awful and scary gave him power. he could cast anyone from court, could hurt those around him with no consequence. because that’s what he felt he needed to do to be powerful. To be like balekin.

Except he didn’t want to be completely like balekin, just powerful like balekin, he wanted to share balekins strong front. Cardan never wanted to be a murderer like dain.

That’s important. Cardan cherishes life. Meanwhile, nicasia, valerian, balekin, dain, madoc, SO MANY do not.

like i said in the beginning, the fae are unlikely to care for mortal lives, to them, mortal lives are too fleeting to care about.

but cardan frees balekins humans slaves for some reasons: first, to prevent balekin from using them to beat him

Second, because Jude’s existence has led him to believe that humans are perhaps more valuable than he was previously told

And third, because he’s witnessed human death. When dain shot Val morens human lover, he watched him die, feeling responsible. i don’t think he EVER wanted to feel that way again. which is probably why he was so stern w not wanting jude to get hurt, asides from his love/lust for her, he doesn’t want to feel guilty for killing her or getting her killed.

it’s worth mentioning that scene in his novella when he takes the human that beat him back to the mortal world. he pities her, but she also pities him, and also tries to apologize. i think this was the only time anyone that ever hurt him, intentionally or no, actually apologized and meant it. Because it showed they actually cared.

nicasia apologized, which should hold more meaning bc she cannot lie. but then she defended herself by saying that he should’ve known. by belittling him. Like his mother. Like balekin. Bc even if they were ever sorry, they still think less of him. Nicasia saw how weak he was for her. And he hated it. But not the same hate that he shared w jude.

Also, dain. Dain played a HUGE role on why cardan is the way he is. Though dains actions were fleeting, they were lasting to cardan.

Because dain framed cardan as an evil little murderer who killed humans, cardan strove to

1. prove him right by being awful, to be petty mostly,

2. to retain his dignity of being thrown out and treated like an animal by embracing the “rebellious” side of him,

but also, he never truly wanted to be a killer.

he refused it outright in book one. because dain framed him for killing a human, causing Val moren to go mad, cardan didn’t want to kill another human, or anyone for that matter.

from a young age cardan learned this: that people are cruel for personal gain, and that death brings around much misery.

Though cardan did not actually kill Val morens human lover, his death caused his mother to be cast away. And as much as cardan didn’t want to: he still cared for his mother. and since the murder, he was cast from the palace, to live in a stable only pretending that someone were looking for him. That someone cared.

Now; balekin. Obviously balekin played a large role in why cardan is who he is. balekin wanted a perfect little prince for his fathers favor. and so that’s what he mostly got. but balekin beat cardan when things didn’t go his way.

cardan wasn’t perfect by any means, he was poor with a sword because he didn’t want to learn. Because he knew he would never want to outright kill anyone, maybe to irritate balekin. But maybe even partly because he didn’t want to defend himself should someone try to hurt him.

while he does state that “being alive is better” I’m not sure he ALWAYS held those reservations. he didn’t always have much to live for, which is so sad.

but, he still cared for balekin despite his abuse and his sisters despite their misgivings about him.

I believe he felt his sisters were innocent in all of this, they simply were being obedient daughters by ignoring cardan. and he was grateful to balekin for taking him, he also owed him for it.

he really didn’t want to be heartless like dain, to abuse like balekin. to be neglectful like his father. but he also didn’t want to be killed off like his sisters so casually. to be killed off like liriope and the baby in her womb. so he stuck to being scary rather than weak.

Cardan learned from a very young age what death brings. it brings suffering and guilt. feelings he doesn’t want to feel bc he hates feeling weak. he’d rather lounge around w a human book in hand and a cup of wine in the other than feel belittled.

add on: cardan is very forgiving. i believe that may because he feels guilty. obviously he didn’t kill Val morens human lover, but i can see him blaming himself for being a hopeful fool about dain (poor baby). and i believe his internal monologue when dain shot the human was him scolding himself for not seeing the trick sooner.

no one forgave him for that. Val moren held it against him years later when he sat at eldreds dinner table. No one forgives cardan for the cruelty he inflicts, possibly because they don’t care.

isn’t that sad? they don’t care enough to pursue a genuine relationship w the youngest prince; everyone seems to treat him like a rabid animal, ready to lash out and attack at any given moment.

that could be why he’s so forgiving. Because he’s desperate for any sort of relationship, even if they’re negative, even if they’re abusive. he holds out hope for those that don’t care about him because despite this, he cares for them- to some extent.

i feel that he acted this way moreso in his youth rather than present cardan, who probably only truly cares for jude and only jude. jude was the only one to really hold out hope for him after all, despite his behavior.

cardan can be kind because no one was to him. He can be empathetic because he knows suffering. he and suffering went hand in hand all throughout his life, his impressionable youth. he’s eventually kind to jude despite his jealousy toward the love she received from her family, because he’s grown out of longing for love from his abusers. he grew into loving jude and jude grew into loving him.

add on: cardan not only longs for a true love (he’s such a romantic) but eventually learns to long for a more simpler life- such as getting away from his family and living a quiet life in a low court. w money and wine of course.

anyway cardans life is so sad but i probably missed some stuff so please feel free to add on! 🫶🫶 moral of the story however, cardan cares, even while others blatantly do not. he wants love, while others want power. makes his and Jude’s dynamic in twk all the more devastating. makes thinking about his letters all the more saddening.

anyway luv u bye

Would madoc have allowed Eva to leave him?/ madoc and his development toward humans/eva x madoc analysis

ok so i wrote this then tumblr crashed and now im fuming bc i have to rewrite it but ill do my best (bashing my head against the wall) also this is so messy im just warning you now

OKAY. so Eva and madoc. First of all: can we just picture madoc, glamoured to be a human (and looking terribly uncanny) but also courting Eva in the 80’s/90’s. 😛

This pic is from Taryn’s novella, and it’s her take on madoc and Eva’s relationship. We don’t know if it’s canon or not, bc how would Taryn know, she could just be assuming.

but i imagine that madoc was better than vivienne in the sense that he told Eva early on what he was.

Edit: I’m not sure he could’ve hid it very well. Madoc is a goblin, his skin is green and i always assumed he was pretty giant. can you IMAGINE how his glamoured human illusion would’ve looked lmao. scary! But also sexy (sorry)

It’s pretty much stated above that Eva knew he was different, that he smelled of blood and scared her family and friends.

but for whatever reason, she looked past the red flags and loved him more for it (ig we know where jude gets her delusion from)

anyway, seems like she vastly underestimated how her life would change upon being whisked away to elfhame, bc she soon became homesick and left, burning his house down and a pregnant human corpse in its wake.

Eva seems to me to be used to getting what she wants, according to Taryn’s pov and based on how madoc has described her, she was beautiful and clever and cheerful. Lots of fun. She didn’t like dwelling on the past.

she sounds a lot like vivienne. But also like jude in Taryn- willing to risk everything for happiness.

anyway, imo, it was clear that she wasn’t gonna be happy in elfhame, and cling to whatever familiarities she could. Including another human man.

Now idk if she loved Justin. I assume she did, and maybe loved his attention too. Whereas madoc could only be there with her briefly before leaving her. (I assume she came to love Justin, as they had kids together and she helped him sell shit on eBay)

I saw someone once say that she left bc she was afraid of madoc finding out abt their affair which could make sense, but idk. The fae aren’t often monogamous, BUT, Eva is a human, and the way Taryn describes, he sounds like a traditional sort of husband. He probably expected her to remain monogamous despite being around the fae.

BUT. We also don’t know if she was even seeing Justin at this point. She could’ve started seeing him after she left. Maybe he followed her back home bc he was in love with her. who knows.

Now onto the ask:

(I misread the ask and finished the analysis so the first half is me answering if Eva were in fact preggo w Madocs baby and wanted to leave, but the other half is if she wasn’t preggo and wanted to leave- SORRY)

this is interesting, and i have thought about different ways madoc may react to Eva and her feelings,

but… if Eva were pregnant with his child, and she wanted to leave him, idk, i think he MAY allow it, but im sure he’d insist on still being a part of the child’s life.

In the darkest part of the forest, another holly black book in the tfota universe, there is a changeling boy named jack. he’s fae and his bio family and him still communicate, all while he lives w his human family too. i think that would be like how vivienne would’ve grown up should madoc have allowed Eva to leave.

Madoc is very devoted to family, and i don’t think he’d just knowingly allow Eva to be miserable as his wife in elfhame. i think he would let her leave, maybe he’d be devastated, bc in his words “his life was reduced to ash”(especially seeing as he cannot lie, Eva and vivi were his whole life to him) when the mortal woman’s remains were left at his estate.

you’re right abt him sorta freaking tho, stomping around threatening to hurt anyone that may hurt Eva, mirrors how he was when jude actually was hurt in tcp.

i think he’d be like that, SAYING how he would fix the problem, but not actually LISTENING to Eva or her wants and needs.

but i doubt he’d allow her to be miserable in elfhame. maybe he’d be blind to it at first, but eventually see Eva’s pain: that’s kinda how i assumed their canon relationship was. him leaving for war and not knowing how much Eva missed him and didn’t want him to leave her alone.

Edit: madoc seems kinda air headed lmao. he was oblivious to how jude was being treated, and i assume he was oblivious to however Eva was being treated as well.

it took great lengths for madoc to understand human nature, even with his human daughters, he was still learning more and more after the exile, and in the prisoners throne, when surens human sister was in elfhame.

but he allowed Taryn to marry Locke, knowing that it was a betrayal to her family, knowing that she would be miserable. He allowed her to choose her own life, even if he didn’t agree or want it. (It is to be noted that he could’ve just allowed Locke to marry Taryn bc Locke gave him the ghosts true name for it)

But Taryn is his daughter while Eva was his wife; maybe he wouldn’t have shared those reservations? he also may not have known at this point to allow Eva her own happiness and life choices. maybe he learned that from Eva after she left him.

Now I’m not entirely sure if he would allow Eva to leave WITH Justin. like if he found out that him and Eva were gonna raise vivi together in the mortal world. i don’t think he’d allow that, not for jealousy reasons (entirely), but bc i don’t think he’d want his former human worker to raise his daughter.

in his eyes, his daughter is of high status and is his own blood.

Madoc is a man of honor and of high status, it looked bad for him to have his blacksmith steal his wife and child away and brag about it. Maybe he would’ve let them leave, but in typical faerie nature, Justin probably would’ve met a cruel end. (turning into a rock, or mermaids plucking his eyes out, or some terrible fae misfortune)

that end could’ve also been of madocs hand or not, (i recall in twk when someone sent rubies to the injured courtier to gain cardans favor) maybe someone that wanted madoc to owe him would’ve sought out Justin to attain some power over madoc, for killing the man that stole his wife and child away from him.

and if this were public knowledge in elfhame, meaning that if Eva publicly left him for the mortal world, I’m not sure it would take long for some sort of revenge to take place. The fae dont like when humans one up them. or steal from them.

OKAY onto the ACTUAL ask: Would madoc have let Eva leave if she WASNT preggo and Justin wasn’t in the picture?

tbh, i think he’d really work to try to make her stay. He’d probably shower her with riches and luxuries and everything she could’ve wanted. but obviously, madoc cannot help what he is, and if faced with the choice: rekindle marriage w human woman he loves OR go to war for the high king to sate his bloodlust … well.

(This also sets the scene for madoc x oriana in future books. Madoc is no longer the grand general. He has blood lust to sate, sure, but no longer can he go out and just murder. i think he can finally be happy with oriana)

im not entirely sure. i dont think he’d give up his position as grand general for Eva. Despite him saying that “his life was reduced to ash” when Eva and his baby were “burned alive” im not sure. he craved power over family, we see it time and time again.

(Edit: madoc MAY have given it up. He didn’t for jude. But she’s not blood, she’s Justin’s child. Maybe he loved Eva more than he loved her. Harsh, but that’s how the fae are. That’s how cardan is with jude imo. No one else but her.)

madoc literally stabbed jude to be high king, BUT in his eyes, he also did it for oak? He also later says in the prisoners throne that “if it were not for all of my mistakes, i would not have the family i do now”, so pretty much he views his treatment of his family as a mistake, but is happy that he has them, so he’s come to terms w the fact that he killed his wife and her husband, and also stabbed Jude and stuff.

ugh. he’s terribly complex so i don’t really know. But like i said, he did allow Taryn to go w Locke. he also allowed vivienne to come and go from the mortal world, to do as she pleases. he allowed oak to be half raised in the mortal world and also elfhame. he seems to do what he thinks is best for his family to be happy, so long as they align with his goals and don’t get in the way of his plans.

The madoc we saw from Jude’s pov during her life, would probably allow Eva to leave, but the madoc that did not have the familial experience, maybe? We have no way of knowing how different Eva’s madoc and Jude’s madoc are. If that makes any sense at all. it’s complicated lol.

what i mean is that Madoc learned a great deal from Eva leaving him. but before that, when his wife and child died and he mourned them. and then he found them alive and with another man. those things change a person. grief changes people. so does betrayal.

but madoc once did say that he wasnt particularly changeable ? yeah i mean overall i think he would’ve let Eva leave, bc he loved her and wanted her to be happy, even if he didnt understand that humans would risk much for happiness. maybe he acknowledged that she was not happy in elfhame but thought she would get over it?

Asha did once say that humans get homesick in elfhame. maybe he thought the same, maybe he thought it would pass.

if he let her leave he probably would’ve kept an eye on her, him or his spies. To keep her safe from his opps who probably would’ve loved to use Eva against madoc. they have dark romance potential (sorry) but like imagine stalker madoc (sorry) 😍

random add on after looking at the ask: I’m not sure Eva was TOO poorly treated in elfhame. she had a high status, higher than the twins, and yeah they were treated like shit but privately yk. bc everyone feared madocs wrath. and if she got sick of elfhame maybe her and madoc could’ve continued their relationship off of the isles of elfhame? Madoc coming and going while she lived her normal life? some characters (human and faeries in relationships) do that in other holly black books. even tho they age and will eventually die. not sure madoc would like that tho. i can see him sparing himself the agony by not seeing her at all.

right- sorry for that HOT HOT mess. I’m emptying drafts and feel totally bad for not answering any asks in such along time. anyone else get awful anxiety when thinking about picking up a book? i get that way for some reason 😐 also im so busy last night i was up til 7am doing work

Like i mentioned in the beginning, my tumblr crashed while i was revising so this may be extra messy. Sorry!

anyway i hope that made sense. i think abt them too often tbh. let me know if i missed anything (or if anyone sees a typo)! thx love u 🫶