@my-mt-heart / my-mt-heart.tumblr.com
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She can have gray hair and wear menโs shirts and still be sexy. She can make the same tough decisions that men make, make the same mistakes that men make, and still be attractive.
Carol is nuanced. Sheโs strong, sheโs sexy, sheโs dangerous, sheโs emotional, sheโs powerful, sheโs feminine, sheโs scary, sheโs beautiful.
Carol is a hero heroine. Thatโs how she should be treated, written, and talked about โค๏ธ๐ธ๐ช
Hey. I've got a season 10 question for you, if that's okay. Season 10 is my favourite season because so much caryl. And so much carol. But at the same time, carol is treated pretty poorly by the other characters. They have very little empathy for her grief and blame her for endangering others, even though she actively tried not to involve others in her mission of grief. We also saw daryl, rick and rosita get other people killed through recklessness and revenge. Meanwhile, carol didn't get anyone get killed, except alpha, and she destroyed the horde. She actually saved everyone.
Despite giving carol a great, complex arc, I'm wondering why the showrunner chose to make her actions feel so controversial and unacceptable to the other characters. Having daryl blame her in Find Me especially cements this because if daryl of all people feel that way, the audience will see her as wrong. But objectively, her actions are no worse than daryl's, rick's or rosita's past actions, who all were not blamed like carol was. Why do you think the showrunner chose to tell the story like this?
I didn't like every story decision in S10 and some of the Carol angst did feel like too much at times, but it is still my favorite season for the reasons you mentioned. I respect the hell out of Angela Kang for making Carol and Caryl the heart of the story. I think it's important to remember that some of the other characters were shaded through Carol's POV. For example, she was convinced that Daryl and Lydia were better off without her, which informed her decision to try to sacrifice herself and save everybody, only to be shown that she was still loved and still had reasons to live. The point was to allow Carol to hit her rock bottom, so that she could finally confront the deeper trauma i.e. fearing the supposed monster inside of her. Thereโs a huge difference between Angelaโs shading and Zabelโs, the latter of which was only interested in punishing her for punishmentโs sake. Whereas the former clearly set the stage for Carol to start healing, but that got ruined in S11 thanks to too much studio/CCO interference, which I will always resent.
What prevents NR from blocking a lady showrunner being hired?
The solution is twofold. We need to keep calling out Zabel for his misogynist storytelling to remind AMC that it's hurting the show's numbers and AMC needs to acknowledge who their audience really is. A Daryl (and Carol) show naturally brings Daryl and Carol fans and whether we're looking at Daryl, Carol, Caryl, Norman, Melissa, or some combination, it doesn't change the fact that their audience is female-skewed. So the person in charge of the story has to be able to cater to that specific audience. It doesn't mean that the show should only appeal to women, but it also can't only prioritize a very narrow male demographic if AMC actually wants it to do well. I know you asked about Norman, but at this point, the studio is digging themselves a deeper hole the longer they try to walk on egg shells around him.
(I know this is an old ask. I'm finally starting to go through my inbox and answer what still feels relevant)
Carol is widely known as TWD's most transformed character for good reason, but Daryl's transformation over the years was pretty incredible too. He started off emotionally stunted, conditioned from a life of physical abuse and neglect to react to everything with anger. But then he gradually learned to trust others and form lifelong relationships with them. He wore his heart on his sleeve, mentored kids, and told the woman who gave him the courage to find himself in the first place that he loved her. He became, in every sense of the word, a man of honor, all on the flagship show.
It's important to talk about the changes in Daryl's maturity. That's what made his story stand out from the rest. However, it does him a huge disservice to first of all, pretend like those changes only began after he was spun off on his own show and second, to re-shade his story as a literal coming of age story. Daryl was a middle-aged man when we first met him, and he's a middle-aged man now. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Quite the opposite. But there is something extremely wrong with suggesting that Daryl was a kid or young adult during the early years of the show because it erases the context of his childhood abuse, makes excuses for him having inappropriate interactions with young girls/women, and encourages more ageism when he interacts with women his own age like Carol.
I rooted for Daryl because he took huge strides to overcome a traumatic past instead of staying trapped in the cycle with his dad and his brother. He chose to be different, something I wish the men in my life would've chosen too. I want to root for him again. I want to see the man who said multiple times that he knew where he belonged on my screen again. I want the payoff of seeing him and Carol together romantically because the love and trust they built with each other over the years wasn't something either of them thought they were capable of before, but they earned it anyway, and it's too deep to replicate with anybody else.
I do not want Daryl's story to keep getting rewritten for an audience of one while everybody else keeps getting hurt because of it. An age-regressed hero who thinks he's taking a gap year makes absolutely no sense for a character who was loved for his emotional intelligence, loyalty, and honor. It makes no sense for AMC's bottom line either. So please, bring back the man of honor, so that I can come back to him too.
What shows have you written for? Why not try to get a writing job on this disaster. Help the #caryl fans out:)
Putting a pro-Caryl writer in the room wonโt make the show pro-Caryl, just like Zabel having mostly women in his room didnโt make the show more comfortable for female viewers. As writers, we can pitch our ideas and sometimes even argue what we feel strongly about, but ultimately, our job is to carry out whatever vision the showrunner has and whether they listen to our perspective or not is up to them. Change has to start from the top. Thatโs why the show desperately needs a new showrunner.
There is so much story to tell and so much love to give to Daryl and Carol, and yet AMC has done everything, or rather, allowed a few egomaniacs with no leg to stand on anymore to do everything to make the fans feel unwelcome to their favorite characters. Seeing new photos or hearing about a new season shouldn't hurt. Lifting up the male lead shouldn't mean putting the female lead down, especially when she's the only one who cares about character integrity. Making a show that male viewers want to watch shouldn't mean making female viewers uncomfortable watching, especially when the two main characters naturally draw a larger female fanbase anyway. Everything about the show is wrong from the misogynists in charge to the characterization, the title, unequal billing, and offensive promotion. Everything about the show needs to change. Give Melissa McBride the authority that over a decade of playing the show's most transformed character has rightfully earned her. Give Carol and Daryl stories that their longtime fans can get excited about again and give their show a real title that reflects the journey that fans fell in love with. Then I'll be willing to invest again.
Maybe a bit late now, but should we be using upfronts to try to elevate our views on the spinoff? If this event is meant for trying to secure deals with advertisers, won't they be interested in what the viewing public and fans are saying about what we want to engage with and build hype for? Is there anything we can do?
It's a good opportunity to let AMC and co. know where you stand as a viewer and why, yes. For example, if it's the case, you could say you're only interested in a spinoff that treats Caryl's story with respect and recognizes Carol's/Melissa's authority, hence you want a different writer in charge. If you've invested years of your time, money, and emotions into these characters, you deserve to feel excited for more of their story, not driven out by misogyny. Don't forget to tag AMC.
I miss the days when you were more active on tumblr. It feels like everybody is leaving and I don't blame them, but I don't want Caryl to die in obscurity. There are fandoms that still go strong years after the show has ended.
The male EPs have been trying to write Caryl into obscurity, telling a fandom with a high number of abuse survivors in all kinds of ways that they aren't wanted and they should just fuck off. I'm not sure what AMC expected to happen, but it's only natural for those fans to lose their motivation.
I'm still keeping an eye on things and speaking up when I need to, but I'm too hurt and angry to do any analytical or appreciation posts that I used to and I can't support S3 of the spinoff when there's so much blatant misogyny behind it.
I miss the glory days on tumblr too. If we get a new showrunner who respects Daryl's and Carol's story, a title change that includes both characters, equal billing for Melissa and Norman, and romantic canon for Caryl, then you won't be able to stop me from posting like crazy again. Until then, I'm at a loss.
Regardless of zabel and his messy editing, what do you think was going through carol's mind when she said "it's a little more complicated than that"? E.g. what Melissa might have thought.
I'm confused by it bc when she says it, it's while didi thinks that carol is isabelle. Did she just mean "it's complicated bc I'm not isabelle"?
Short answer? No ๐
It's hard to isolate one line of dialogue because you need to look at the whole scene and consider the arc(s) it fits into as well. This post is sort of a peek into how I parse a scene in its larger context, so my exhaustively long answer is behind the cut. I'd suggest a beverage of choice and a comfy seat while you read.
Just a theory and I would like to know what you think about it...
It got mentioned that NR wasn't the primary one who pushed Melissa out but definitely one who profited of it and didn't fight for her like he did for GN.
Trying to create an ordinary show with an ordinary hero (or just a guy) couldn't have been the main goal, so why would anyone choose this path and with what intention?
My theory is that it's about the pairings. The timing of the whole fallout and the announcement of another spin off a half year later seems suspicious if you consider the timeframe.
All three of the spin offs would've had a pair of main characters, one female and one male. One couple, former enemies and one with soulmates. If you want to promote each spin off differently, two would've still been quite similar.
Caryls dynamic was always extraordinary, soulmates, friends or maybe lovers, it doesn't matter. They were the most hyped couple outside of the fandom, a GA favorite.
Maybe that's why they wanted to separate Caryl. Which was a big mistake just to favor the creative directors beloved couple. Negotiations must've started around the same time too. The time-frame works.
And bringing Carol back wasn't always the plan. Everything Melissa said and did is speaking against it. AMC just had to correct a mistake.
Angela was pro Caryl, so she also had to go as collateral damage.
Melissa and Angela lost their jobs back then because other EPs decided to be vile and insecure. Thatโs it. Nothing to do with pairings ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ To be honest, I was debating answering this because the topic has been beaten to death for three years now, but I do understand the relevance since AMC keeps letting the male EPs run their business for them and cause major damage.
Laura: So we see Daryl making little mistakes that he otherwise wouldn't that are almost uncharacteristic because he's not in the right headspace right now. And it's really a stark reminder that he needs Carol with him โ plain and simple.
Shalaka: She's the missing piece. I think the implication also is that this is happening right after he clocked that he doesn't have the knife. And I think he's preoccupied because they made a point of showing that shot, the exact show of how โ of when โ he gave her the knife.
Laura: And he's worried that he doesn't have a reliable weapon with him now, too.
Shalaka: Yeah, I think a tool is a better word, right?
Laura. Yeah.
Shalaka: I think what it does is it serves the purpose of showing us that she's brought back to the forefront of his mind because she is more clear than the knife is in that shot. So I think, it's very important in that way.
Laura: So I also just really loved 'See you later, asshole.' There's something about the way he said it. I feel like I want to make it my catchphrase now.
Shalaka: I get it, but for me, it's Carol's sing-songy 'See ya later, asshole.' I just, I don't know, it just wins me over every time.
Shalaka: But I also think that the implication is they're probably saying it around the same time, too, because these events are happening simultaneously, right? We're seeing them out of order.
Laura: Yeah, it's concurrent. It's a really good instance of that connective tissue that shows us how they almost operate as one unit, right? One singular entity.
Shalaka: I think the issue is that many people often think that Daryl and Carol are two halves of a whole when, in reality, their relationship is a tapestry.
Shalaka: It's so interwoven that the threads are interlinked, looping around each other, caressing each other, holding each other tightly, and weaving through each other's lives so seamlessly that you can't even tell which thread is Carol and which one is Daryl anymore.
Shalaka: Breaking them doesn't work because it's not a clean cut. When you're cutting the tapestry in the middle, you're ripping both stories in shreds.
Shalaka: There's no way they can ever separate from each other at this point. They're that linked together, and their story is only complete โ that tapestry is only complete โ when it's both of them weaving it.
Excerpts from Nine Lives Two Mics, Episode #37: A Deep Dive into Diverged.
Do you think that now that Melissa knows the shady stuff they pulled for S2, she'll have been more aware and fought a little harder? I know she mentioned not rocking the boat or speaking up too much but it's so obvious she wasn't expecting S2 to be what it was and I wonder if she knew how bad it would be, if she would have said something?
Someone in Melissaโs positionโthat is, sharing authority with several men who want to horde all the authority for themselves because theyโre petty, entitled, or bothโwould be backed into a corner. If she pushes too hard, she risks getting labeled difficult to work with which becomes a permanent stain on her reputation. If she says nothing, all the work she put into her character and her reputation get trashed anyway. To be very clear, it has nothing to do with Melissaโs agency or her personality or professionalism. Itโs misogyny operating how it always does and no matter how much talent or strength or fight she has in her, she needs support on all levels. The other EPs arenโt going to listen to her, but AMC needs to. They need to get control of the situation and hire someone who can implement change. Enough of this โboysโ clubโ shit. Itโs not like theyโre making any money off of it.
