I did the cover myself, it's not perfect but i'm proud of it. Outline (and better view) under the cut.

It's amazing how hiashi lies to his dead brother about the main branches

this is so painful to see how hizashi, even dead, doesn't want to harm anyone and even continues to acclaim the fate that befell him and continues to think that he is wrong and not the main branch.

"now both branches work together" is unfortunately a lie, it is never shown that those in the secondary branch are free, now because of a war it is important that everyone work together. the fact that the plot takes advantage of the fact that neji no longer feels resentment towards the main branch does not mean that he stops being a slave to them, neji is still a slave, he just has some "privileges"

when I talk about privileges, I'm talking about how neji was able to demonstrate his worth and strength, something that interested hiashi because his daughters are weak, and he stopped seeing neji as a slave and began to train him, neji had that luck, I don't think other members of the secondary branch have

and everything is denied when neji dies protecting someone from the main branch, instead of continuing to live and change history, neji dies just like his father, being a slave and protecting a member of the main branch, he dies being nothing because his death is only so that his cousin has an approach with a man who has no interest in her and then she gets disrespected because she only thinks about the big, strong, manly hand of a man

It makes me so sad that hizashi perhaps thought that neji stopped having a destiny like the one he had and is really important for the main branch, when in reality he dies just like him.

and it's even sadder when you find out that neji never knew his father came back to life...

Just needed to solidify my rant, absolute apologizes if this theme is oversaturated, but I needed to speak up because I remembered the absolute idiocy that Naruto's ending is.

Let's be real.

Kaguya's arrival is the WORST plot twist of Naruto.

It was all about ninja, philosophy, and the cycle of hatred, and then out of nowhere — aliens. It felt like Kishimoto suddenly realized he needed a "bigger" final boss but had already made Madara too OP, so he just threw in Kaguya as a "gotcha" moment.

Madara had decades of build-up. He represented everything wrong with the shinobi system: the endless wars, the obsession with power, the never-ending cycle of revenge. He was literally the final test of Naruto's ideology. And then — nope, just kidding! Black Zetsu was using him as a pawn for literally thousands of years to revive Kaguya, who has no real personal motivation beyond "mY cHaKrA."

Kaguya wasn't even interesting. She barely spoke, had no personal connection to the main cast, and her fights were just "teleport to a new dimension, spam crazy jutsu, repeat." At least Madara made his fights fun.

Honestly, it would’ve been way more satisfying if Madara had fused with the God Tree or something and he was the final boss. But nope, aliens.

This is so pointless...

Like imagine the perfect ending of Naruto.

Imagine Madara lying there, defeated but not in some cheap "backstabbed by Zetsu" way — truly defeated in battle. He’s staring up at the sky, battered, his legendary power finally failing him. And in those last moments, as he reflects on everything — the wars, the betrayals, the endless cycle of hatred — he whispers:

"Hashirama… was I wrong… after all?..."

And just as he fades, he sees Hashirama’s ghost (not literally, but like a vision in his mind) smiling at him, as if saying, "You finally understand."

That single line would’ve hit so hard. It wouldn’t erase all the pain he caused, but it would humanize him even more. It would show that, at the very end, he finally questions if his way was right. Not some alien’s pawn. Not some chakra puppet. Just a man who tried, failed, and wondered if there was another way.

THAT is how you close Madara’s story. Not by having him get played by Black Zetsu like an absolute clown

Madara fades away, his vision going black… and then, he opens his eyes. He’s standing in a vast, peaceful meadow — the same place where he and Hashirama used to meet as kids. The river flows quietly, the trees rustle in the breeze. It’s eerily silent.

And then, standing there, arms crossed, a familiar voice:

"Took you long enough, you stubborn fool."

Madara turns, and there’s Hashirama, just watching him. Not angry. Not smug. Just… there. Waiting.

Madara, for the first time in forever, feels small. He clenches his fists, looks away, then — gritting his teeth — mutters:

"I really was a fool, huh?"

Hashirama sighs, stepping closer. "You always were. But you were my friend first."

For a moment, they just stand there, the weight of their entire lives hanging in the air. And then—Hashirama smirks.

"So… rematch?"

Madara blinks, then lets out a genuine laugh. A real, deep laugh, the kind he hasn’t had in decades. He rolls his shoulders, a spark of life returning to his eyes.

"Hah! You’d better not hold back this time, Hashirama."

The two charge at each other one last time, not as enemies, not as warriors — just as two boys who once dreamed of peace.

THAT should’ve been Madara’s ending.

Something about the Shikamaru-Asuma revenge arc threw me off so bad. It was extremely difficult to get through and annoyed me on several occassions. Asuma & Shikamaru were unbearable and I didn't understand why until later.

The entire Shikamaru Revenge Arc goes so hard on Konoha Propaganda. It is the most concentrated form of it. Shikamaru & Asuma live to protect the 'Will of Fire' and take many actions which they have condemned when coming from people who are against Konoha, but they think it's "correct". Shikamaru's revenge is fine because he's doing it for Konoha and under Konoha's rules.

He is not actually allowed to grieve or cry, he must turn his sadness into a weapon for Konoha and he just goes along with it. The sexism of making Kurenai into a static nothing-burger of a character whose only job is being pregnant and looking pretty for Asuma.

The idea of Shikamaru assuming the role of 'mentor' for Asuma's unborn child, thrusting upon this thing who doesn't even exist yet the violence and suffering of the 'Will of Fire' all the while smiling about how great it is that they're planning to train more and more children to die and kill for this village.

The sheer hypocrisy of it all. Also like I'm sorry Shikamaru was written like some kind of perfect fantasy hero who's super cool and does nothing wrong ever. There was a lack of depth to him as a person. Naruto & Sasuke, though they are clearly the writer's darlings, are wrong many times. They make mistakes, they falter. Shikamaru in this arc was written to be so......Idk if "perfect" is the right word, but his reactions and emotions are portrayed as always being in the right, and therefore always admirable.

Asuma in particular constantly kept speaking about the 'Will of Fire' with zero thought for critique. Shikamaru, the smart guy, saw that he and all these other children were being put through something horrible and decided to root for it. There's something very sinister about this kid who used to not give a shit and look out for his own safety looking at the prospect of a baby and deciding "yeah I'm going to raise that kid to be a soldier" with happiness.

its really quite embarrassing that naruto is framed as changing the world but in the end its like just fighting for maintaining and entrenching the status quo truly liberalism at its finest

By jumper433

Why are the Uchiha considered a non-oppressed group? Naruto's fandom, specifically pro-Konoha readers, tend to claim that neither Sasuke nor his family was actually oppressed nor discriminated against prior to their killing; furthermore, some tend to state that it's for this supposed reason that the massacre was justified, as not only they perceived no injustice when presented with evidence of their treatment at the hands of those in positions of power (who should've had guaranteed their survival at the very minimum, as that was the reason for the village's creation), but also consider their plan to coup a consequence of their "traitorous" nature; a disservice after everything "Konoha did for them".

Some other fans, not much smarter than the first group, are willing to admit some of the discrimination they suffered; but they are reluctant to see such conduct as a learned animosity, labeling it as a "modern occurrence" (when speaking of Hiruzen's timeframe). According to them, the Uchiha had just begun to be discriminated against, so their reaction was disproportionate; apparently, it's mandatory to wait for such bigotry to be repeated for a few generations before considering it a systematic occurrence rather than an isolated event.

Genocide doesn't happen in a vacuum, it's not an option that is plausibly considered if not after years or decades of cultural and political repression and degradation. It's the growth of a slow but consistent process of dehumanization, to the point where those taught under such a regime of thought truly consider their life, rights, and opinions far more valuable and important than those they degrade.

Arresting or even killing the clan members that actually wanted to coup would've been far more understandable had those in power seen Uchiha humane enough for their lives to be considered, to matter; yet the elders quickly saw mass murder as an enticing option, sending one of the kin they wanted to exterminate to do their dirty job so they wouldn't lose "one of their own" and still look pristine.

They were able to do so and still see themselves as agents of peace because they were taught that they were on the right side of history, as the story was told from their perspective; the handwriting of their mentor shines dark and spotless on the parchments of their national library.

And, as for them, there were no real losses that day, their life continued. And those responsible for the death of dozens kept smiling, kept walking amongst the classmates of the children they sent to murder, telling them to fight for their memory, to give meaning to the pain by growing.

The fandom still believes that their death was requited, necessary, and fair; putting the blame of the genocide at most upon two sets of shoulders (Danzo, Hiruzen) instead of (at least) six (Tobirama, Danzo, Hiruzen, Koharu, Homura and Itachi), because they truly think that such an idea can be created out of thin air and it's not the consequence of an oppressive system that it's constantly demoting a specific group's value; because they truly think that the Council is acting on their own volition and isn't abiding the structure set by those before them. To them, four men and a woman created and taught themselves their own moral, social, and cultural parameters for this specific portion of the story before renouncing them and subscribing once again to their teachers (who somehow are painted as ~agents of peace~).

But alas, let's dissect some of their arguments, perhaps like this some of their brilliance shall illuminate us:

A peak into Madara's confrontation with Onoki / Mu

Ask Prompt: If you are still answering some questions, I was wondering how you understand Madara's behavior in that manga scene where he is in front of Onoki (flashback scene) and him telling others not to mention Hashirama?

[I'm resposting this as, unfortunately, I've lost more than half of my metas, this one included - please consider reblogging to give it a boost! ]

So here's the specific chapter you're referring to - obviously, what immediately strikes as emblematic is Madara's iconic declaration of hostility:

"You bow to the might of Konoha!"

and then, naturally, his following admonishment:

"Never mention that shinobi's name in my presence!"

I think it's crucial to point out three interesting details, the first being that Madara is depicted wearing a hitai-ate with the symbol of the Leaf clearly engraved upon it. It's a rarity to see him donning Konoha's symbolism. Based on this alone, I think we can safely assume that this disastrous encounter transpires well after the treaty, the founding of the village and the nomination of the Hokage role, though the specific time-lapse is unknown (I'll go back to this further along the post).

The second detail which caught my eye is that Madara distinctly mentions 'Konoha's might'.

Not 'My might' and neither 'The Uchiha's might'. It's a curious shift in the manner in which he expresses himself, quite uncharacteristic judging by what we've seen of him in Hashirama's reminiscent vision - it would appear that Madara's role here is to render himself manifest as an instantiation of Konoha's overwhelming power, not as an ambassador with pacific intentions.

The final detail to note is that battle has not yet commenced between the two opposing parties: the building which appears in the background is initially intact whereas in the successive chapters pertaining to Onoki's flashback, it's shown that all seems to be in a ruinous state of disarray, the temple crumbling, utterly destroyed as demonstrated in the successive panels of Onoki's memory:

I'd argue this is important when considering how Madara initially presents himself. Madara doesn't waste time in pointless semantics, he makes a point of emphasising his intentions - bearing down upon them in a very dominant pose, he states that they are to bow to the might of Konoha, implying that :

1) The hidden village is already a tangible reality with a concise identity. In fact, not only is the appearance of his headband with the symbol of the Leaf is telling, Onoki too also dons a hitai-ate relative to his village, further substantiating my point: we can infer that other clans, pertaining to other lands and under the rule of different daimyos, have mimicked the Leaf and created their own versions of these shinobi settlements. Again, I'd rule out that Madara was sent here as an envoy to recruit more exponents.

2) At this historical point in time, Konoha is a power to be reckoned with. The hidden village that Madara and Hashirama gave life to is no longer in its primordial phases but has progressed and evolved into something that encompasses multiple clans and most probably has a defined gubernatorial internal structure - it is an affirmed entity, not something still treading in its unsure baby steps.

This inevitably implies that the confrontation between Madara and the Iwagakure shinobi occurs not only after Hashirama has been appointed hokage, like I said earlier, but after Madara overheard the conversation held between the Senju brothers.

I'm sure that Madara here is operating as the Hokage's right hand man, though it's difficult to assess whether or not the duel that ensues was a result of Madara's poor diplomatic skills or if perhaps subduing the opponents and forcing them into prostration to the Leaf, be it through persuasive discourse or brute force, was indeed the main mission (I headcanon the latter).

It's curious that Hashirama is often depicted as a lovable fool, because he was anything but - he was both a very charismatic, confident leader and a supreme fighter who was well versed in strategics; neither was he a complete idiot, after all, he kept the nine tails for himself, a bijuu that was notoriously more powerful than the others, assuring the village's upper-hand in terms of raw military power.

The thing is, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Hashirama had utilised Madara as a delegate, who's also shown to travel solo for this specific mission, safe in the knowledge that the Uchiha would be more than capable of handling things with his own devices. Again, the fact that he is apparently unaccompanied and wearing armor would lead me believe that the reason behind such a mission had nothing to do with discrete, tactful conciliatory politics. He wasn't visiting them for afternoon tea and a pleasant chat, that's for sure.

Finally, the battle culminates with the defeat of both Onoki and Mu as Madara shatters Onoki's will to, figuratively, 'keep dancing' :

I like this panel a lot.

Madara is a very expressive character, his emotions often transpire through his facial features more than through his words as he often doesn't explain himself to others (with the exception of Hashirama). When he experiences severe distress, we're shown and again not necessarily through words - he communicates through subtle gestures and glances. When he feels the thrill of a fight, it's very obvious; his love of battle, particularly one-on-one clashes, is a well known fact and he manifests this fervent passion with some of most outrageous and near-deranged expressions we've seen in the manga [insert that gif where Madara's eyes expand beyond human capability, similarly to how a cat's does when hunting], coupled with unbridled war cries.

So I think that his downcast gaze is quite indicative of his inner, roiling emotions - naturally, this could be me misinterpreting, but I think the last frame is still very evocative, especially if we compare his characteristic glare displayed in the upper panel(s).

His expressions here are stern. His body language seems strangely guarded as he's keened at a slight angle. Not only does his mouth not bend in an illusive smile of victory as we'd expect, it's only barely visible and it's very much the opposite, a sort of despondent frown. He does not look satisfied with the outcome of their altercation.

To me, he looks like a man who is utterly disillusioned.

The words accompanying this frame seem to add some weight to my claim:

"... make excuses for it and even replace it with hatred."

I don't think this is said with random casualness, the mention of the concept of "hate" coming to supersede that of "will" held a profound meaning to Madara specifically so I wonder if these words, spoken by Onoki's master, are perhaps an illusion to Madara, as if he were speaking them himself (probably) - after all, his relationship with Hashirama was shown to be quite fragile and we all know how it gradually declined until it finally shattered.

If we think about it, Madara did make many an exception for Hashirama and continuously suffered disappointment after disappointment (or barrier) because of his nakama's incapability in seeing his promises through - by this point it's like that he had come to a terrible realisation, that he had internalised a damning sentiment : that the village, this shinobi system, this shared dream he once believed, had not at all turned out to be what he had desired, hence his fierce words:

"Never mention that shinobi's name in my presence!"

I see it as a phrase rife with resentment and bitterness - why else would he feel such hostility towards the person who embodies the closest thing to a brother?

Madara here is a man who's dream is breaking and it'll be his downfall.

War is war, and war never changes and neither do the men who are born and bred to perpetuate it. To think Hashirama was an endearing little mushroom who could do no wrong is such a simplistic vision of his character and it attributes an excessive naivety to him - he was a war chief. Tobirama was a war chief. So was Madara. They all were. Their primary language of communication was through a clash of swords. Sure, Hashirama was lenient towards Madara, but he made certain exceptions only with him, in specific scenarios, and only because a deep-rooted kinship existed between them - I doubt he was truly all that indulgent towards hostile villages that threatened the Leaf's stability and/or existence. Hashirama's compassion ends when Madara refutes the village - because the village is everything to Hashirama: it is above and beyond the love for his brother, the love for his friend, the love for his own child (and yes, if we take a peek at the timeline, Hashi was already a father therefor this child he references is not hypothetical - either that, or Kishi fucked something up). The Will of Fire and its passing down from generation to generation is greater even than himself and it's certainly greater than Madara. Hashirama believes in it above all else.

I'm not saying that Madara was reluctant or disproved of these means and demands to render Iwagakure subservient in regards to Konohagakure, that would be blind, wishful thinking on my behalf - what I'm saying is that Hashirama most probably saw eye to eye on this front. Much like Hiruzen would utilise Danzo to handle ethically abhorrent State affairs, I don't see why Hashirama wouldn't do the same with Madara.

The thing is, we tend to purify our favorite characters and fabricate excuses for them (I know I do the very same with Madara), but it's important to take a step back and acknowledge their limits; after all, these characters are (fictionally) human and abide by the laws of mortal, fallible man.

Conversely, the same goes for how people generally perceive Madara; I feel he's excessively demonised, especially when he's compared in counterpoint to the magnanimous effigy they've created of Hashirama.

We tend to forget that humans are walking contradictions, multifaceted and quite literally a linear combination of antithetical aspects and qualities. Hashirama was not a saint and Madara was not the embodiment of wickedness.

Even if Madara had taken things into his own hands, are we sure that Hashirama wouldn't have approved of his approach? I'm convinced he would not have insisted Madara continue to fill his role as the Hokage's main advisor, or shadow if you will, if he didn't believe in his competence and stratagems.

I've also often seen people blame Madara's incendiary brashness as the prime catalyst that triggered the beginning of the great war between the five nations, so I'd like to talk about that as well.

What we do know however, was that said war was a result of major imbalances between countries and their respective hidden villages, some resorting to taking resources from others (harvest, forbidden scrolls etc) - There is almost always an economically-driven purpose underlying most armed conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented as something more noble (we call that propaganda in this house hold). It's important to remember that all shinobi villages abide by the daimyos whims; subtracting wealth from neighbouring  countries by incursion was a thing. Poor countries, countries like the land of wind that were barren and basically consisted in endless depleted landscapes, relied on military incursions and the use of their bijuu to provide for the nation.

Madara as the main cause for war? Nah, it's farfetched.

As far as timelines go, the first Kage summit occurred successively to Madara's defection and demise by the blade of his nakama. Considering that peace was established between the five nations, albeit for a limited time and during which the bijuu were supposedly 'equally' distributed between nations, I doubt that Madara's irruption into Iwagakure could have represented a genuine cause for the First Shinobi World War.

BONUS:

So was that Madara's attempt at showing some brand of mercy? Considering his sheer destructive power, he could have easily have smited both ninjas with unparalleled force, obliterating their bodies and their wills... Yet, for some reason, he chose not to.

FIN.

Persephone 🌻

This is a great post that luckily, you were able to save to some degree (I must perform a similar task and save the post I consider important to my blog, as who knows what will happen in the future with this site) -the timeline of this interaction, often forgotten by most Madara’s detractors, is also quite interesting as it shows that Madara’s deflection wasn’t immediate. On Hashirama’s recollection of the events that transpired we only see his conversation with Tobirama and Madara’s instant abandonment of the village, quickly followed by his attack. Here, however, we are shown subtle details on Madara’s reasoning;  Hashirama’s memories conveniently focus and place the blame upon Tobirama’s shoulders specifically –as his words are the primary reason why Madara untrusted the Senju’s realm, he detaches himself from any responsibility in the matter (he sees himself as righteous, so his actions are not to be blamed by his best friend’s change of heart), yet in this quick clash between Onoki and Madara we get to learn important aspects that you pointed out: