User talk:Quick-O-Mat

From Wikidata
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Häufig gestellte Fragen

[edit]

Hallo, häufig gestellte Fragen sind unter

zusammengefasst, unter anderem

Zahl der täglich neu eingestellten Artikel

Für jeden einzelnen Autor bzw. jede einzelne Autorin wären Dinge wie

nur ein verhältnismäßig geringer Zusatzaufwand pro neuem Artikel, bei mehreren hunderten neuen Artikeln täglich ist das aber leider entsprechend aufwendig.

. --M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:54, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo M2k~dewiki!
Weshalb schickst Du mir diesen Hinweis, habe ich irgendetwas falsch gemacht? --Quick-O-Mat (talk) 13:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kwasigroch - removal of native label

[edit]

Hi, I'm curious as to why you removed the native label for Polish for Kwasigroch Q28737359. I'm not sure what the standard approach should be, so I'm not hating on the idea.

So far, I've seen surnames and names with native labels which made perfect sense to me, so I add native labels to surnames; then, I saw someone add preferred rank to native labels in multiple languages when other native labels were listed (which I didn't quite see as warranted, but that's a separate discussion).

I'd argue that maintaining a native language label for family names makes perfect sense; it's additional information on the surname in question. E.g., Kwasigroch is super-Polish, and it would make sense to hold on to this information somewhere, i.e., the native label makes sense. Plus, for certain surnames, there might be interesting differences what exact form a given country uses, e.g., Kłosowski (Polish) vs Klosowski (e.g., the US). Let me know what you think or what the best practice is. Itorokelebogile (talk) 14:42, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! There can only be one possibility, either the family name is Polish or it is multilingual. In this case, the name also occurs in Germany and in former German territories. --Quick-O-Mat (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you're saying, but the challenge with surnames is that they have:
  1. An origin or multiple origin countries (i.e., different languages may create the same surname if those languages are close; sometimes, there might be cases in which the text string looks exactly the same, but has different etymologies – see: Luty; the string of characters represents a Polish word that means February, but this word is not just a Polish surname, but it also happens to be an English surname with roots in old French, see: https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Luty).
  2. May now occur in various parts of the world (it seems you're focused on this aspect in your answer; I'd argue that if we truly follow along with this reasoning, there will be no "source" origin language to any name – any Polish surname that pops up in any census around the world, would suddenly suggest that the surname is some kind of international surname if the native label is only set to multiple languages. Take the surname Jagiełło Q27646664 – totally Polish on first sight. People with this surname must have Polish ancestors, perhaps the surname is listed without Polish diacritics outside of Poland, but I'm not sold on describing it with native label Property:P1705 set to Jagiello/Jagiełło with multiple languages as the language listed. It's not that I'd remove this label, makes sense to hold on to it, but it would be strange to remove the native label, in my opinion. Then, there are also cases in which a language may have gender inflection for the given surname (I know, there's Property:P5278 for that), or variation with a father or husband suffix – pretty common for Polish surnames. Those suffixed surnames would not be "a thing" outside of Poland, so a native label for them would be very, very appropriate.
Sorry for the push back, but I'm trying to figure out how to best approach this. Guess my TL;DR would be that native labels are appropriate for surnames that may appear in various parts of the world, because they help trace what language/region a given surname seems to stem from. If we take a surname like Müller Q8157228, it would be weird for me if the only native label was multiple languages (and, with your approach, that should happen because there's a few people in Poland with this surname). I'm totally game re: keeping the native label that covers multiple languages, but I don't think removing native labels is best practice (but, again, new here, so perhaps I missed something, and perhaps the language of work or name is the more appropriate property Property:P407). Itorokelebogile (talk) 06:03, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To cut a long story short: However, it makes no sense to specify two languages in native label (P1705). Either the name is Polish, or it is multilingual. Best regards --Quick-O-Mat (talk) 06:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please explain your reasoning here? There's no constraints on how many native labels can be used (I'm now referring to the property specification). Also, all names will have some origin language; perhaps there's a rejoinder in which language of work or name is used to contain this information Property:P407 and I might be conflating the two. Again, and I'm open to the idea that I'm totally wrong, hence my follow-up. Itorokelebogile (talk) 07:51, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It does not make sense to add every language just because the name occurs in a country or it is in a phone book. For example, the name Smith can be found in every country in the world, so should we add over 400 languages? The original language of the country of origin is decisive for P1705. If the origin is not known and cannot be proven with a source, use "mul". --Quick-O-Mat (talk) 08:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This I totally agree with; however, sticking to this example, Smith originated from English, so I would assume it's OK to use the native label set to English here. But again, perhaps the discussion comes from me conflating native label and language of work or name. How would you approach this dilemma re: language of work or name? Would you be OK with using it, defining it as English, or would you use similar arguments (i.e., the surname is present in various countries, hence, languages, hence, there's no right language of work or name to be set here?) Itorokelebogile (talk) 08:07, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There must always be a reputable source for the specific indication of the original language, otherwise just use "mul". --Quick-O-Mat (talk) 08:20, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Quick-O-Mat&oldid=2218695751"