Wikidata:Property proposal/corporate domicile

corporate domicile

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Organization

   Withdrawn

Description	legal home of a corporation. Alias: place of incorporation, statutory seat
Data type	Item
Domain	administrative entity
Example 1	Finnkino (Q5450883) → Helsinki (Q1757)
Example 2	Please add more examples
Example 3	MISSING
Source	Please help locate a reliable source to be kept in the definition.
Planned use	record corporate domicile / place of incorporation for current and historical companies
See also	location of formation (P740), headquarters location (P159), located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)

Motivation

This is an essential property in recording data about organisations.

"Place of incorporation" is currently given as an alias to location of formation (P740). The domicile may be changed, and location of formation (P740) is no longer a valid choice for the new location.

It is distinguishable from tax residence (Q1473701), which should have it's own property created. enwp: "Domicile is, in common law jurisdictions, a different legal concept to residence, though the two may lead to the same result."

The headquarters location (P159) may be different from the corporate domicile / place of incorporation.

Please help complete the proposal! Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

MD Imtiaz Ahammad Kopiersperre Jklamo ArthurPSmith S.K. Givegivetake fnielsen rjlabs ChristianKl Vladimir Alexiev Parikan User:Cardinha00 MB-one User:Simonmarch User:Jneubert Mathieudu68 User:Kippelboy User:Datawiki30 User:PKM User:RollTide882071 Andber08 Sidpark SilentSpike Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) User:Johanricher User:Celead User:Finnusertop cdo256 Mathieu Kappler RShigapov User:So9q User:1-Byte pmt Rtnf econterms Dollarsign8 User:Izolight maiki c960657 User:Automotom applsdev Bubalina Fordaemdur DaxServer Laurenz Sommerlad

Notified participants of WikiProject Companies – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:22, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

• Why corporate domicile over place of incorporation?ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • If the concept is the same it does not matter which is primary. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
    • @Susannaanas: It does matter how we name our properties. There's a good chance that we will be stuck with the label for a lot of time. Part of a property proposal discussion is to pick the best possible name for a property. Given that a lot of our properties follow the schema place of X, place of incorporation feels to me a bit superior to corporate domicile.ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:15, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support We could use improvements like this in corporate metadata, thanks! ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Support - PKM (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Question is this the same as registered office (Q65616986)? - PKM (talk) 19:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • As far as I understand and reading the description in enwiki– correct me if I am wrong – I would say that the proposed property is the permanent domicile of the company, which can in some jurisdictions have an additional registered office (Q65616986). Some other jurisdictions require they must be the same. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
•  Oppose Use headquarters location (P159) David (talk) 06:53, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
  • I almost agree, but I think the use of headquarters location (P159) should be more strictly defined to serve this need. We will need the juridical home of a company, and I have a gut feeling that headquarters could be located outside the registered municipality. But if this is not the case, the property should be reconsidered. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 10:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Trying to summarize my understanding of close matches, please comment!
    • "Place of incorporation", "Statutory seat", "Corporate domicile", (possibly headquarters location (P159))
    • headquarters location (P159), tax residence (Q1473701), registered office (Q65616986)
    • location of formation (P740), possibly also "Place of incorporation"

Some cleanup is needed. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 11:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

•  Question Could someone show a model of all these properties for an example case to see how it would work? Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:46, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• I will withdraw this and use headquarters location (P159). If there will be need for more distinction, the idea can be revisited later. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) (talk) 07:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
•  Support Till now I stumbled over ~20 German Nonprofits where "corporate domicile / Sitz" and "headquarters location / Geschäftsstelle / Hauptverwaltung" differ.
•  Support, preferring primary name "place of incorporation" Daask (talk) 15:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Support but somebody should fill out with a couple more examples! ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
•  Question Why not use and build upon siège social réel (Q7533476) or seat (Q470540)? Johanricher (talk) 19:56, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

•  Comment @Susannaanas, ArthurPSmith, ChristianKl, Daask: I found this proposal after building a structure that I think is enough to solve the problem explained. Basically it consists to have one headquarters location (P159) for each HQ (not branch office (Q1880737) nor those cover by has subsidiary (P355)) gathering all the information as qualifiers as described in Wikidata:WikiProject Companies/Properties. It, optionally, may include location (P276) when it has a "HQ building", that may have their own properties for some or all of the qualifiers that describe HQ, making unnecessary them, in this case. In addition, to assign the type of HQ it is (corporate, operational, campus, etc.) I use object of statement has role (P3831) as a qualifier of each entry of P159. You can see two real cases in this university and its campus or this club with HQ in no specific P276 and the sports complex (not the home venue (P115)) with a specific item. Your comments will be wellcome. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 12:24, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

   Comment @Amadalvarez: I think you have come up with a good solution for the issue described on this page of how to model different types of corporate headquarters. Nice work. I still think it's worthwhile to have separate properties rather than the qualifier for headquarters location (P159). In the meantime, I think your solution is acceptable.

  Regarding your examples:

  1. For a university and its campus, I'd probably create separate items that are instances of university campus (Q30785519), then link them with part of (P361) and has part(s) (P527) to University of Valencia (Q383568). I don't think headquarters location (P159) is the right property for describing university campus locations. Daask (talk) 13:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
  2. For the club, I'm not sure what you were going for with FC Barcelona (Q7156)headquarters location (P159)Sant Joan Despí (Q15640)object of statement has role (P3831)Ciudad Deportiva (Q3678673) since Ciudad Deportiva (Q3678673)instance of (P31)Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410).

  Daask (talk) 13:02, 27 December 2020(UTC)

Thanks, @Daask: for your answer. In the campus case, I avoid to use P527 because it's a multi-use property and we may have conflicts with some other use/meaning. In the university it use to contain the faculties, it is, the studies concept, not physical location of them that may be or not included within a campus. To me, campus is the space, the continent of faculties, libraries, residence, etc.

Regarding Q3678673, is certainly a mistake. The label of this item is exactly the name we use to denominate this venue, but I did not see that is a description only used in spanish, not a common concept. So I change it by sports complex (Q7579839) closer to the concept of "ciudad deportiva", which includes not only sport arees but also residence and school for youth teams.

If later this proposal is re-opened, I hope someone may ping me in order to apply the changes we decided. Thanks, again. Amadalvarez (talk) 17:22, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

@Amadalvarez: Could you update this proposal (since the original seems to have been withdrawn by Susannaanas) with the details of your proposal, and we can try to get it approved and this dealt with? JesseW (talk) 13:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@JesseW: If this property has been withdrawn, I understand you mean that "I update P159 with the description done in previous talk" and then close this proposal. Is it?. I'll copy the description and example to P159 talk page. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 17:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Amadalvarez: If your proposal doesn't require any new properties, then yeah, just document it on Property_talk:P159, I think. I'll mark this as withdrawn, now. JesseW (talk) 19:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done here. Amadalvarez (talk) 19:41, 24 March 2021 (UTC)