This is an archive of past discussions with User:Kerry Raymond. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hi Kerry,I was about to put up an Infobox for Oscar but Googled his name first to try and find his burial details first and came up with a discrepancy in regards to his place of birth.
Both ADB and the Queensland Parliament give it as England with QP adding Norwich as well. However, I have found a couple of sites that say he was born in Switzerland.
Yet again, you seem to have found another curly question. Biographers (like ADB and QP) are more interested in what you did in your life, whereas family historians really care about when/where birth/marriage/death occurred so I'd tend to trust family historians. Indeed, in the 1891 UK census, we find him living at Bridge Place House in Kent, where he describes himself as:
Oscar de Satge, male, age 54 years, retired Australian squatter and sheep farmer, born Switzerland Lausanne
If he really was born on 20 November 1836 (as his WP article says), he would indeed be 54 years old on 5 April 1891 (the date of the 1891 census) as he would not have had his birthday that year, so everything checks out. In the 1901 census, he is now 64 years old and this time he gives his birthplace as "Switzerland (British subject)". So, he seems pretty clear in his own mind that he was born in Switzerland. So I'd be going with Lausanne, Switzerland and "1891 UK Census" and "1901 UK Census" as sources.
BTW, not sure if I told you, I have now seen Bertram Steele's death certificate in his probate file in Queensland State Archives and it confirms burial in Lutwyche Cemetery (with witnesses in the usual way). So he was definitely buried at the time of his death and then exhumed at some subsequent time and then cremated a few years later for some mysterious reason, but I am still no closer to solving the riddle of "why". Kerry (talk) 04:28, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
And, check out this which gives even more detail. Elysee and d'Ouchy are both in Lausanne ("pres" just means "near"). And, for bonus points, what did he call his home in Folkestone where he died? He called it Elysee, the place he was born. It all ties together. Kerry (talk) 04:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
You know, I was kinda thinking he may have said he was born in Switzerland to impress people, however your usual excellent research seems to show that it is in fact correct. I often email ADB with corrections (providing good sources of course) and they do appreciate me letting them know as they strive to have their articles as accurate as possible. And seeing as I am forever using ADB as a reference it is the least I can do.
I have changed the article to suit and added the three references. Thanks for the help on this one and yes, my questions are fun, it's what makes editing WP so enjoyable!
Also, you did tell me about Bertram Steele ages ago. Maybe his family reinterred him elsewhere to be near other relatives..... Who knows.
Rocketrod1960 (talk) 09:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
It is a place where women can go and be sure they'll be able to participate in discussions without being dominated by men's advice, criticism, and explanations. If interested, your participation would be most welcome. Lightbreather (talk) 23:13, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
Former Members Register
Hi Kerry, I have been redirecting all the broken links to the Qld Government website for all the politicians I have been working on and guess what.
This is bad. It's not that the URL has changed (that wouldn't be so bad as we could just run through with AutoWikiBrowser and fix them up) but what they have done is change the numbering system for the entries. As an example Bunny Adair used to be entry 135 but now he has number 2719334794. This is NOT good news as I cannot think (off the top of my head) of an easy way to fix that kind of change. Even if we were using a template (which is what I had been intending to set up for some time), we would not be protected from this change. Let's sit back and think about this. It's too mind-boggling tedious to fix each one up by hand, so we need to be smarter about this. Kerry (talk) 05:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I notice that their Search Former Members box isn't working either. I wonder if we are seeing some kind of temporary transitional problem. Kerry (talk) 05:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
It might be worth writing to the office responsible about this. We had a problem a couple of months ago when the Victorian geographic naming authority redid their links in a way that stuffed a template on hundreds if not thousands of articles, and they actually wound up working with us to find a solution. Alternatively, if they keep stuffing up the links, it may be worth just directing them all to the base Re-member page: it's not ideal but it's only one click to the actual page. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:59, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
I have already emailed them and the response was not encouraging. Pointed to the disclaimer on their website saying anything can change at any time. The "base page" solution is what is currently happening with the Queensland Place Names website as they have also recently developed their website so it is no longer possible to see any entry as a single web page; despite our requests, they've sympathised but done nothing to help fix the problem. Kerry (talk) 21:18, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Update. I am now in contact with one of the members of their IT team, who appears friendly. Let's hope we can find a solution. Kerry (talk) 01:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
A kitten for you!
Thank you for your warm welcome to Wikipedia Kerry. I am stumbling and bumbling my way around but am heartened by your kind words.
Alexdaw 22:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Training
Dear Kerry - yes I would be interested in your offer - thanks. A colleague and I did a half day at State Library about 3 years ago so I'm a tad rusty.
Alexdaw 23:48, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I will let you know if it continues. Just for my interest, did you go with a whitelist on the category or take another strategy? Kerry (talk) 22:03, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I think I have whitelisted you as a user. The problem with whitelisting sources is that, since the register is CC its content gets mirrored all over the place, and those mirrors often do not include the license. Thus the bot just sees a match to some Internet content with no reliable way for it to confirm the license. We get the same problems with WP articles mirrored like that. Coren's been away for a while, but a permanent fix would be to check the categories of the created page as you suggest. For now, hopefully this workaround will keep your talk page quieter. CrowCaw22:30, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Kerry Raymond, my area of research is substations. I will make the changes to the other entries, as my changes are mostly identifying all of the tramway substations, and their order of construction etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris from Mt Gravatt (talk • contribs) 21:47, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kerry, would you like to have a look at the article for Bill D'Arcy? I am sure the person who did all the edits in the last couple of days was well meaning but not too sure about the article's NPOV.
Rocketrod1960 (talk) 10:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
My quick assessment (sorry in the middle of meta: WikiConference Australia 2015 organising at the moment) is WP:UNDUE. The notability is being a politician not being a sex offender and the article balance should reflect that, so there's way too much on the sex offending. The current legal position is a conviction. That there may be a possible appeal of some sort (the source was a "living dead" link -- news site that no longer appeared to have the content -- so I cannot say exactly). The undue weight argument says that grounds for the possible appeal (or whatever) should not have more than the conviction. The grounds for the appeal mentions other living people; possible BLP issues, especially allegations that they lied etc. Most of the citations have no links -- difficult to check if what is said in the article is a fair claim against the source (which is not required, but we are in BLP here so I think there is a greater need for verifiability). The citation used multiple several times that has a live link appears to be some online forum (hardly a reliable source for BLP). The contributor claims not to have a POV and (if we take that claim in good faith) I think they have got so involved in the thrill of the chase of tracking down this information (and I understand that feeling!) that without intending to do so, they have gone beyond a reasonable "encyclopedic" coverage, particiularly wrt to undue weight. Kerry (talk) 21:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Bill D'Arcy
The article on Bill D'Arcy was well researched with sources quoted for every factual report. My research revealed that the history of Bill D'Arcy since his incarceration has been the rising movement to chronicle the mistakes made in the Criminal Trial - the contrary conclusions of the Civil Proceedings, the evidence which has remerged since the trials, and the increasing number of people who wish the process certified as a Miscarriage of Justice. This is the story of Bill D'Arcy. It is not a facile entry. It has notability in the light of how the criminal justice system works on Queensland and in the rest of Australia. It is a notable example of a case of a person convicted by means of "recovered memory". It is important element in the legal and political history of Australia and Queensland. I have the citations for everything - the Australian, The Courier Mail, The New York Times, Hansard, websites, a video interview of a fellow teacher etc. Documents to the CJC CMC and CCC are available form FOI Freedom of Information. Transcripts of court proceedings are available from the courts or on the internet. If you wish to check my sources in an encyclopaedic manner please do so. I respectfully request that you restore my contribution and do whatever research you want to provide an alternative to any factual account I make. The entry I made is factual. It is not a "mess". Please respect. Gladiator-Citizen (talk) 00:24, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
QLDMLA needs infobox
Sam Piantadosi and John Vaughan? Hopefully someone in South Australia and Western Australia will have the same urge as I did. :)
This is bemusing, but I wrote the Piantadosi article and the current version of the Vaughan article, so either I was copying categories from a Queensland pollie or I had a couple of very absent-minded moments. The Drover's Wife (talk) 23:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
If you were using HotCat (as I do), sometimes a slip of the finger creates some interesting mis-categorisations. I've done a few of those myself! Speaking of which, RocketRod, I notice you don't seem to be using HotCat (it mentions itself in the edit summary so you generally know if someone is using it). If you want to give it a go, enable it at Preferences > Gadget > Editing. You can also enable it on Commons (where it is more sophisticated and even more useful). Kerry (talk) 23:22, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but I really do wish that Ted Theodore didn't go bezerk and appoint all those labor guys to vote on abolishing the Council right near the end! Rocketrod1960 (talk) 03:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
BTW, if you want a hand on Theodore's Suicide Squad, feel free to point of them my way - they're a bunch of people I'm quite interested in and happy to do a thorough job on my own. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:22, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
There's plenty still to do on the MLAs, I don't think you will find yourself with nothing to do any time soon! :-) Kerry (talk) 04:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for contributing to Let's Talk Diversity Campaign!
The Learning & Evaluation Barnstar
Hi Kerry Raymond, we are happy to award you a Learning and Evaluation barnstar, for your efforts in contributing to the ongoing conversation on Let's Talk Diversity!
Hi Kerry! As someone who knows much less about early Queensland politics than you do, I'd really appreciate your input here on their categorisation in the party system. Frickeg (talk) 07:32, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm someone who is a lot more interested in the MPs as people rather than the political parties they belong to, which is why I stayed out of the initial discussion which seemed to be driven more by the modern political parties than the historic situation. But I have added my 10c (which is to limit the categorisation to where there definitely is a political party and side-step the vague affiliations). Kerry (talk) 23:29, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. Would you say there is a defined point at which the party system really emerged in Queensland? (By this I mean the non-Labor forces organised into actual definable parties.) Looking at the member lists it seems to be 1901-ish? Frickeg (talk) 00:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Based on this (pages 2-3 of PDF, I would say the 1908 Liberal Party and the 1912 Queensland Farmers Union are the first non-Labour parties and appear to be genuine fore-runners of the present Liberal and National parties. Everything before that seems more of a loose conservative alliance than a party IMHO. Kerry (talk)
watchlist
My watchlist has been alight from your good work. You could save yourself a lot of extra work by simply opening the article and changing the text of the categories inside the article, rather than double category changing from outside of the article. satusuro01:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, but it's a bit more complicated than that. See the conversation immediately above for a bit of a discussion of the problem. I have to add the new category first and then later come back and see if it is safe to remove the old category. I'm not manually opening them in any case, AWB is doing it for me - I'm just manually hitting Skip/Save depending on what I think needs to happen to deal with the easy cases (one party, one parliament). Kerry (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
I'll have to do it in two phases. First adding the category, then removing the category. I can't do both in one pass. Watch this space ... Kerry (talk) 09:57, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Done. I think it worked. The thing you have to be careful with is removing the "politician" category when the pollie is a member of multiple parliaments, as you can't remove it until the new category has been added for all parliaments. I noticed this on Yvette D'Ath where the politician category had been removed when added to the new Parliament of Australia category, without regard to her service in the Qld parliament. Now I just happened to catch that one "by eye" but I suspect there are others. Also spotted "by eye" Ted Theodore in the same situation, so there may be others that had been removed too soon from the politician category. Are there any more that need doing? I think I have the process more-or-less down pat (the only tricky ones being the multiple parliament people). Kerry (talk) 11:53, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
There are equivalent categories for every party for every state and territory that need populating, and only the NT and ACT have been done so far. If you'd be willing to have a crack at any other others, that'd be amazing, but I know you have a ton of projects, so no pressure. The multiple parliament one is a tricky situation, and good catch with that - I'll have a run through and grab any that stand out (my memory of these things at least is pretty good). The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:34, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Wow. Thank you so much for doing these. I'd been putting off doing them manually because the federal ones took so long. You're the best. (The multiple parliaments thing is my fault, btw; I had been intending to go through them all by hand and so had removed the "politicians" category when doing the federal ones intending to come back around once the Qld/other states were created. I will certainly help trying to catch the ones that might have been missed.) Frickeg (talk) 22:16, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I have just about finished adding the new categories for the ALP. I will then start removing the old "ALP politicians" category when I am sure it is OK to do it. What this means is that anyone "complicated" (multiple parties, multiple parliaments, or mayor/councillor) will get left in the ALP politicians category for others to review manually (which probably involves reading the article) to work out what categories should/shouldn't be in use. Kerry (talk) 22:20, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
OK, I have finished what I can easily do by semi-automated means. Although I have changed the categories on several hundred ALP pollies, there are still 203 articles left in Category:Australian Labor Party politicians because they were "complicated" and need someone else to take a look at their categorisation. I might have another go with one of the other parties (not today, I am sick of pollies for the moment); let me know if you have a preference. Kerry (talk) 01:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Great job! The Libs and Nats should be mostly done, so what remains is (a) the minor parties, (b) the independents, and, most dauntingly, (c) the historical parties. I will try and get some categories going for some of these soon. Frickeg (talk) 02:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Ooh, that's a hard one. How about Dunwich Privy Pit and Convict Archeological Site? It'd be good to capture both aspects of it, but I don't think Dunwich Convict Site is specific enough considering that there's also the convict causeway. It's a little bit of a mouthful, but not as much as the official title (!) and it works to disambiguate from the causeway because that isn't (at least as far as the QHR is concerned) an archaeological site.
The causeway is one article that could really do with a picture, too. I read the article a couple of times and I still have no idea what it actually is apart from a thing that is now part of the docking facilities there. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:45, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
My reading of it is that the causeway is the finger of dirt that points out to the sea from which the jetty projects, as seen in the foreground of [2]. It looks like they have more recently expanded that area (looks like a land reclamation). I wonder what where is actually left to see and I'm finding it hard to get very excited about it, but maybe you have to see it to fully appreciate its charms. Ditto the privy pits :-) Re the name. I don't like "and" titles very much. I could do it as Dunwich Privy Pits (there's a certain amusement value in that name) and make Dunwich Convict Site a redirect or vice versa. The article will list all the other names in the lede para as usual in any case. Kerry (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Your thank you was very quick, I had only saved it about two minutes ago!
I recently turned on notifications for new links created to articles on my watchlist, so your politician articles invariably link to something on my watchlist (e.g. the electorate) and that alerts me to it. It's unfortunate that there is no way to watch a category (so I get notified if there is a new article in a category of interest to me) so this notify-on-link is the next best thing. It's in "Preferences > Notification > Page link" if you are interested in using it yourself. For me, it's been the best way to be aware of new articles in areas of interest to me. Kerry (talk) 00:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kerry, good work on finding the photo! I have had loads of trouble finding photos of the Council members who were appointed from 1917 onwards. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 01:31, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I look in the obituaries in the newspapers when I'm desperate for photos. Often there is a photo, although they can be pretty dark and grainy. But I had no joy with Perel at all. Can't be many MLCs left to go now! Keep up the fantastic work!Kerry (talk) 01:47, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
I do the same, look up the papers the day after the person died for photos and information, but didn't think to look up the deal old Tele! And yes, just 5 more members to go! Then it is on to the Legislative Assembly....... Rocketrod1960 (talk) 02:01, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
The Tele is just rolling out in Trove at the moment so you find more of it all athe time, but it's often pretty much the same article and photo as in the Courier-Mail. But with two of them, you can pick the "least worst" of the photos. Kerry (talk) 02:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and when I do start on the Assembly, the first person I will do an article for is Albert Edward Victor Whitford, who was only in parliament for two years but was shot dead in the city, apparently over a lady he was playing up with. He was of course a Labor member. :) Much more interesting than most of the Council members who owned loads of pastoral land but never did anything controversial as such. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 02:51, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kerry, congrats on the good work done on this article. I enjoyed a fair few steaks there before heading off to see the footy at The Gabba. Maybe not quite as nice as the steaks at the Breaky Creek, but still very nice!
Rocketrod1960 (talk) 04:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your kind words. Funnily enough, I have a bit of history with the Breakfast Creek Hotel. I built it in Lego several years ago. Kerry (talk) 05:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Recently created Residence, 50 Guy Street, Warwick and Interwiki linked Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I wanted to let you know I have change that Interwiki link. I just thought I would share why, so that in the future you could avoid some of the very common mistake I see all the time, when it comes the name of the LDS Church.
You are invited, to a conference at the University of Eucla, to discuss how MassMessage might be more effectively used to organise events in Australia. Please indicate your acceptance of this offer via the usual method (carrier pidgeon). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:17, 23 May 2015 (UTC).
A kitten for you!
Thank you for thanking me for my edit at Meta:WikiConference Australia 2015. :) I hope to get to meet you one day. From the looks of your user page, you seem like a mighty wiki woman. :)
I've been away on the Darling Downs taking photos so creating new QHR articles had to take a back seat. But it means we will have better photo coverage of the QHR sites on the Darling Downs as well as a lot of general photos of that region. I'm getting close to the end of the City of Ipswich QHR sites. I think the next LGA for QHR articles will be Moreton Bay Region. I am prioritising SE Qld since that is the area where I can probably take photos as needed. Beyond that, we will just have to depend on the random chance of finding something in Commons. In terms of the project overall, there are about 1700 QHR sites. On Wikipedia, there are now about 685 articles that were created or expanded using the CC-BY QHR material, plus a further 236 articles that already existed and have not yet been expanded (where it may or may not make sense to incorporate QHR material depending on their existing level of development). So in terms of QHR coverage on Wikipedia, we are at about halfway. In terms of incorporating as much QHR material as possible we are over about a third of the journey. Kerry (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
And of course the QHR material provides content for a number of biographies and material for sections on local history of various towns, suburbs and localities, so there is a lot more to be squeezed out of it. I've done a few bios along the way but there's a lot more potential. That's the trouble with editing Wikipedia, one thing tends to lead to another, and starting the day with a plan to sort out one article finds me working on something about 3 hops away from where I started. :-) Kerry (talk) 21:59, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Also when creating stubs, could you be so kind to at least put the australian project tag on the talk page, it really helps...
Also the change in Trove citing is a major issue and really should be explained at the national noticeboard (if I havent missed it)JarrahTree01:05, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
The Trove URL that appear in the address bar of the browser is not guaranteed persistent (although they do seem to continue to work in practice); these are the ones with "ndp/del" in them. If you are using a Trove URL generated by their "Cite" button, then that is guaranteed persistent and all is OK. Not sure where they formally document all of this, but it comes up from time to time in discussion, e.g. [4]. None of this is new; as far as I know, this is how it has always been, but I agree the NLA don't do enough to point it out. Nothing is actually broken at this time, but I was being pro-active to prevent those URLs breaking in the future. Kerry (talk) 01:32, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
In Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name), it specifically says "if the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text, then include it at the beginning of the page name" and "These conditions are sometimes met if the page name is ... the official or commonly used name or nickname". I agree that there may be many situations where "The" is not needed at the start of an article title and that there is the general principle that the common name (likely to be used as search terms) trumps the official name, but in the case of The Southport School, the "The" is used both officially and in common usage and is normally written capitalised in running text. I note I have no conflict of interest in relation to this school, merely a lifetime of hearing this school being referred to as "The Southport School" in common usage, probably because in the same suburb there is also the Southport State School and the Southport High School. Kerry (talk) 07:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
No, I didn't know about it. I am using an AWB script that I wrote. I will take a look at the one you've pointed out and see if it meets my needs better. Thanks Kerry (talk) 03:48, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Brisbane Meetup
Hi there! I'm dropping you this notice as you've indicated at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane that you are interested in attending a Wiki meetup in Brisbane. Assuming significant interest, I'm organising an event for August 22 at the SLQ Café in South Brisbane, and we'd love for you to come along. A list of people interested in coming, and a discussion space has been created at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/8. Hope to see you there! Lankiveil(speak to me)11:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC).
Brisbane Meetup
Hi there! I'm dropping you this notice as you've indicated on your userpage that you're a Wikipedian in the Brisbane area. Assuming significant interest, I'm organising an event for August 22 at the SLQ Café in South Brisbane, and we'd love for you to come along. A list of people interested in coming, and a discussion space has been created at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/8. Hope to see you there! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
I think that's do-able. A quick check shows there's only 58 of them. However, I think a better strategy though is to convert them all to a template parameterised by the name of the heritage site and the DDDDDDD registration number e.g
{{cite NSWHR|5012023|Goulburn Viaduct|accessdate=12 August 2015}}
This is how we do the Qld Heritage Register citations, which have the same problem of frequent changes to the URLs every year or so (most recently last month). With a template you only need to fix the URL in the template definition and not in every individual citation, which saves a lot of work! It is more work to replace the individual citations with templates, but it pays off in the long run. Your thoughts? Kerry (talk) 00:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Actually I think the problem is bigger than the 58. There are over 250 articlesto the NSW heritage site more generally (but not that specific URL), most of which are probably going to be references to entries in the heritage register glancing at the article titles. So I am guessing that there might be a few different old URLs out there. All the more reason to go the template route, I think. Kerry (talk) 00:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Visual Editor
Hi! Thanks for dropping me a note!
Yes, the Visual Editor made it sooooo much easier for me to edit. I discovered that I love editing Wikipedia... it makes me feel useful. LOL. Thanks for your kind words. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:48, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the mention on the other page. :) I guess I could also add that building an article from scratch is a lot easier too. I also like the article wizard. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:33, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that! I am sure the folks who are building those tools appreciate hearing it. I suspect they get to hear the criticisms more than the praise. Kerry (talk) 04:27, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Ha Kerry Raymond, you are really good!
"My prediction is that a survey of “why don’t you edit” would probably produce the following responses in this roughly this order:
1. Never even thought about it
2. Don’t have the time
3. Don’t have any knowledge to share
4. I’m not enough of an expert
5. I don’t know how to contribute
6. I don’t see the benefit to me from contributing"
Although I would have been better if I had found the readers' survey in the first place! So much for my lit review. Kerry (talk) 22:02, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Reg Inglis
Well, my "interest" in the article at this point is limited to the fact that it was filed in inappropriately overgeneral categories that needed to be refined. I happened to be cleaning that category up a few minutes ago, and came at the band's article from that end of the equation — but I have no other interest in or knowledge about the band. But looking at the original article about the bloodstock agent, which was apparently created a grand total of seven minutes before being overwritten with the band, I'm not seeing that it made any particularly strong claim of encyclopedic notability — it just asserted his existence, and parked it on a single source that wasn't necessarily sufficient to satisfy WP:GNG.
Disambiguating them would probably be the right approach, if more substantive sourcing can be located to support a stronger article about the Australian horsebreeding figure — but the original version didn't really demonstrate that he merits a Wikipedia article at all, so I wouldn't disambiguate them just to restore that version without any improvement to bolster his notability. Bearcat (talk) 21:21, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, the more I look at the band article the more it looks like just a weird WP:HOAXy rewrite of The Orb — and I'm not finding any evidence on the web of real sourcing to support that they ever really existed at all. I'm going to restore the horseracer and lock down the article for the time being, but I am still going to have to tag the horseracer for notability and sourcing improvement. Bearcat (talk) 21:30, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. No problem about tagging the horseracing one. This is being developed by a new user who is struggling with how to create citations (see their User Talk page where I am trying to show them how to use the cite templates). The Inglis family is well known in Australia for being in the bloodstock business over a number of generations (plenty of source material exists - just needs adding). Kerry (talk) 21:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
I accidentally locked it at "administrator only" at first, which would have interfered with the editor's ability to improve the article — but I've dropped it back down to "autoconfirmed status" now (which the horseracing editor already has, while the band guy shouldn't yet.) Once one or two more sources have been added, the notability and referencing tags can come back off, so don't worry too much about those. If the band guy causes any further problems, let me know and I'll figure out what the next step should be. Thanks for letting me know. Bearcat (talk) 21:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
I've restored the article without Harkkomanita's edits, and I've posted to Velella's talk page to explain that you weren't the sock/vandal. The redirect from the disambiguated "dance act" title was probably just an accidental oversight, though — if an article gets deleted (speedy or otherwise), then any redirects to it are supposed to get deleted at the same time, rather than needing to be nominated or handled as a separate issue. The deleter most likely just missed them, rather than anybody deliberately leaving them in place for any specific reason — so I've dealt with those already as well. Bearcat (talk) 14:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Kerry - Thanks ever so much for protecting my page. I had no idea what was happening and would have had it deleted without you. I've added some more links to media to show why Reg Inglis is notable despite being a lowly (and retired) auctioneer. It has to do with the connections that his job gives him, and which results in his significant appointments. I picked up on his story with the death of Bart Cummins (no argument that he's significant) where the rumours were finally confirmed that Reg had saved Bart's business by not pursuing a legitimate debt that William Inglis and Son were owed. I hope that I've done enough. Rod mcinnes (talk) 21:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rod mcinnes (talk • contribs) 20:52, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Rod! But the credit for unscrambling the omelette must go to User:Bearcat. Unfortunately the actions of User:Harkkomanita (now unmasked as a sockpuppet) in overwriting the Reg Inglis article with what appears to be some kind of hoax article about a dance act caused people to think the Reg Inglis article was suspect (unaware it had been hijacked). This is the first time I've seen an article hijacked in this way so it's not a regular occurrence in Wikipedia. But do please keep up the good work on contributing to the Reg Inglis article. Just a suggestion, but do you think it might be better to build the article around the Inglis family/business as a whole? (Note it is possible to redirect the names of the individual members of the family onto the business article so anyone searching for the individuals would still find the information on them - I can help set up the redirections if needed). That way you could cover the story of the business and the individual family members involved; I think one large article would be better than several small articles on the individual family members. There's plenty of material about the family in Trove] and the Australian Dictionary of Biography. Kerry (talk) 23:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you as well. I've taken the notability and sourcing tags back off the article now, since I'm satisfied that an adequate level of sourcing has been provided (and just so you know, Harkkomanita's sockmaster is actually a notorious problem editor who's apparently been doing things like this since at least 2013, but keeps at it no matter how many times his puppets get blocked — though this was actually only my second time directly encountering him myself, which is why I didn't twig to it right away.) Glad it's gotten sorted out, at any rate, and of course I'll still be around to help if anything flares up again.
Since I don't know how either of you identify yourselves politically, I won't presume to know whether I should congratulate or console you on your new Prime Minister — but that was certainly interesting news to wake up to this morning (and yes, it really did make the news up here.) Bearcat (talk) 00:12, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Our fourth prime minister in three years! But not as surprising as it might seem. Because we have compulsory voting, no Australian political party can afford to be too far from the political centre, and this leadership change repositions the Liberal party to be closer to the centre in the leadup to the next federal election. The public opinion polls have shown Turnbull preferred to Abbott for some time now, so there was an inevitability about the change. Kerry (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Will do. May I ask what sort of training you do? I was thinking of trying to organize something here in my local library and have been wondering if there are any resources / ideas / training plans that I could tap into. Derek Andrews (talk) 21:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Mostly I have done training using the source editor, typically half day to full day workshop, which covers the basic mechanics of entering text, formatting text, adding links and citations. Sometimes I cover uploading photos (own work and Public Domain Australia) to Commons. Usually to groups ranging from about 5-15 people, usually organised through libraries which have some kind of "computer room" or "training room" facility. Generally as part of it, I identify a set of articles that might be of interest to the group (generally the groups have some common element - live in a certain town, work for a certain employer, etc) that they can expand as exercises. Because the exercise has to be easily achievable, I tend to pick articles (or create them) that are underdeveloped and for which I can point to a few well-known sources that provide easy factoids for new contributors to add. To take James Morgan as an example, the Members of the Queensland Legislative Assembly all have some basic documentation in the Queensland Parliament's Former Members Register, e.g. for James Morgan. My most recent training class was using the new Visual Editor. As it was only 2 people, I did it by demonstration rather than with a Powerpoint presentation. I would say that new contributors probably should be taught Visual Editor as it is much easier for them to learn (the downside is that Visual Editor cannot be used on Talk pages). Happy to share any of my Powerpoints with you but it's easier to do it by email so can you contact me by "Email this user" (left side bar). Any particular reason for your interest in James Morgan? Kerry (talk) 23:15, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. I gave up on Visual Editor, it just doesn't seem to work very well on my older computer / slow internet connection, but I will give it another try maybe next time I am at the library. I would probably be doing this as an ongoing series of workshops that I can spread out for as long as it takes, but it is a good idea to have some pages identified for people to work on. I came across James Morgan in Special:DeadendPages, somewhere I lurk when I'm looking for something new to work on, or something that can be easily tidied up / deleted / passed on to a wikiproject over coffee. I think I have come across a few other Australian politicians in the recent past, so I would guess that they were yours too, but I haven't in the past always checked the page history. I'm quite happy to leave them alone if you think that they might be useful to you in the future. Derek Andrews (talk) 10:43, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello Kerry! You have visited a number of articles initiated by me, and done some useful housekeeping by converting citations based on NLA Trove to a persistent URL. For example - see this diff. I'm not fully aware of the significance of these changes, nor am I capable of using WP:AWB. The following articles were also initiated by me, contain many citations of NLA Trove, but have not been up-dated with the persistent URL:
It must've been wild in the Foreign Office with Carr in charge! But yes, I'll certainly be having a bit of a period of decreased activity - once the MLC bios are done, that is. :) Frickeg (talk) 05:30, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
You're probably right - it's just that when I see "destroyed", I like to go looking for what happened to it (couldn't turn up a thing on that clock?), and was a bit surprised to find the bit about the moved so tried to explain it. The source didn't reference that most of it would be demolished, but looking at the picture more closely you're probably right that it has been and the rest of it is just imaging. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:56, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks on both counts! I figure we've got the answer for the culvert, but I'm really curious about that clock: it's rare to have a heritage site that I can't find anything about its current fate and I hope you can dig up an answer! At some point we probably should go back and look at those Toowoomba articles from the start too, because I've noticed a number of the big developments on those sites (e.g. the foundry) seem to be picking up pace. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
You are, as ever, an absolute champion. This project has been such a delight to watch take shape, and I really appreciate that you've been willing to help chase down answers to some of these questions. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Brisbane meetup this Saturday
This is just a friendly reminder of the Brisbane meetup that is occurring this Saturday at the Queensland Art Gallery café, which you have expressed an interest in attending. Please check the meetup page as some of the details may have changed since you last looked. I look forward to seeing you there! Lankiveil(speak to me)11:28, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kerry,
It's nice to meet you today.
Please email me about your contact, and I can provide you with the photos today.
goodtiming8871@gmail.com
@ScottDavis:@The Drover's Wife:College's Crossing Jan 2012.JPG I think you made the right call on this one. I had a look at the website in question. I don't think there is any reason to include an external link to the website as a whole as I cannot see the that coincidence of places having the same name as being of sufficient relevance to meet criteria 3 of "What can normally be linked" in WP:EL, but I did wonder if the specific webpage that dealt with Ipswich, Queensland might be reasonably included as an external link under criteria 3. However, looking at the content of the page, it seems to contain (in part) text and images taken from Wikipedia without attribution. As a concrete example, one of the photos of College's Crossing on the Ipswich, Queensland page of that website is uploaded as own work on Wikimedia Commons by User:Kgbo (personally known to me) under CC-BY-SA yet appears without attribution on this webpage. Some of the text about the bora rings appears to be copied from Bora (Australian) and so on. This disqualifies the site from being externally linked from Wikipedia as "material that violates the copyrights of others per contributors' rights and obligations should not be linked" (WP:EL). Kerry (talk) 21:55, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I saw this request last night and thought I'd take a look, felt it was obvious enough to revert without further commentary, for what it's worth (which is why I didn't bother chipping in). Though Kerry's rationale makes that even clearer. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:48, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks both. I deleted it the first time, along with several others. Since just one came back, I wanted a second opinion just to make sure I wasn't the one being the prat. I didn't do Kerry's full analysis, just felt it didn't feel helpful as a set of places with the same name. --Scott DavisTalk23:32, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Kerry, There has been another Burns Statue erected. It is in front of the Castle Mural, Mary Morrison Memorial Garden, Castle, New Cumnock, Ayrshire. The mural was used for the front of Burns Chronicle many years ago. The statue was erected about three years ago. New Cumnock Group on Facebook use my photo of them. Feel free to use it.
Cheers, Geoff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geoff Crolley (talk • contribs) 12:34, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to rewrite it in your own words, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.
Community Health learning campaign - Analysis Report of Community ResponsesThank you!
Hi,
apologies for writing in English, if this is not your first language.
I want to thank you once more for engaging in conversation on the Community Health learning campaign. It took us a while, but we can finally announce the winner of the prize, as well as share the outcomes of this conversation.
The winner of the Wikimania 2016 scholarship is Basak! Congratulate her on her Talk page!
You might also be interested in taking part in the 2015 Harassment consultation. This is the first of several planned consultations on this topic, intended to provide a place to discuss ideas, concerns, proposals and possible solutions regarding Wikimedia communities’ harassment-related challenges.
This conversation would not have been the same without you. If you have more ideas, or follow up comments on the findings of the campaign, don't hesitate to leave me a message my talk page.
Hi Kerry - thanks for your assistance and all the 'thank you' notes you send me. I should really be thanking you - just about everywhere I go on the (history) internet I see your excellent work and contributions - thank goodness for people like you who are working so diligently to record our history and in an eminently readable style. I'd give you some sort of Wiki star, but I'm a bit of a Wikipedia gumby and don't know how to do that! ;) Regards Peter Peter Eedy (talk) 01:17, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Old St Stephen's Church
Hi again Kerry - I was reading the Old St Stephen's article and remembering that some people dispute that Pugin designed it - I then found this research paper from the 'Pugin Foundation', which appears to confirm his authorship of the design: http://www.puginfoundation.org/assets/Brisbane_Essay.pdf. The chapel is of interest to me - as a young architecture student, I prepared (long lost) measured drawings of it in the early 1970s. Amongst other things, I recall the badly weathered hardwood shingles 'peeping out' from under the then corrugated iron roof. Regards Peter Peter Eedy (talk) 01:24, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
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