neither fish nor fowl

English

WOTD – 2 January 2023

Etymology

Possibly a variant of neither fish, flesh, nor fowl, itself a variant of neither fish, flesh, nor good red herring which is attested from the 16th century.^[1] According to Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1895), the latter term referred to three types of food generally consumed by the different classes in society: fish by the clergy, flesh by the common people, and red herring by the poor. Thus if something was neither fish, flesh, nor red herring, it was good for no one.^[2]

Pronunciation

(Received Pronunciation) IPA^(key): /ˌnaɪðə ˈfɪʃ nɔː ˈfaʊl/, /ˌniː-/
(General American) IPA^(key): /ˌnaɪðɚ ˈfɪʃ nɔɹ ˈfaʊl/, /ˌni-/
Audio (General Australian): (file)
Rhymes: -aʊl
Hyphenation: neith‧er fish nor fowl

Adjective

neither fish nor fowl (not comparable)

(idiomatic) Not easily categorized; not rightly belonging or fitting well in a given group or situation; also, not having the advantages of the various options.
Synonyms: neither fish, flesh, nor fowl; neither fish, flesh, nor good red herring; neither fish nor flesh; neither fish nor flesh, nor good red herring
- 1885, Charlotte M[ary] Yonge, “Mysie and Dolores”, in The Two Sides of the Shield, London: Macmillan and Co., →OCLC, page 347:
  Besides, I know I should hate being there without you; I'm a great old thing, as Jasper says, neither fish nor fowl, you know, not come out, and not a little girl in the schoolroom, and it would be very horrid going to a grand place like that on one's own account.
- 1915, Harry Leon Wilson, chapter 11, in Ruggles of Red Gap, Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, Page & Company, →OCLC, page 188:
  My hump was due, I made no doubt, first, to my precarious position in the wilderness, but more than that to my anomalous social position, for it seemed to me now that I was neither fish nor fowl. I was no longer a gentleman's man—the familiar boundaries of that office had been swept away; on the other hand, I was most emphatically not the gentleman I had set myself up to be, and I was weary of the pretence.
- 1919, E[dward] Phillips Oppenheim, chapter VII, in The Box with Broken Seals, Toronto, Ont.: McClelland & Stewart, →OCLC, page 68:
  "To tell you the truth," he confided, "I am a little tired of my job. Neither fish nor fowl, don't you know. I took an observation course at Scotland Yard, but I suppose I am too slow-witted for what they call secret-service work over here."
- 1934, Lew Levenson, chapter V, in Butterfly Man, New York, N.Y.: Castle Books, →OCLC, page 53:
  The trouble, Kenneth, is in you. You are neither fish nor fowl. You are a country lout—fit only to associate with pigs.
- 1993 January 14, Jon Pareles, “Arts: Playing in reunion, Cream is the finale of rock ceremonies”, in The New York Times‎^[1], New York, N.Y.: The New York Times Company, →ISSN, →OCLC, archived from the original on 2022-12-27, section C, page 15:
  Ms. [Etta] James, who has been a blues, rhythm-and-blues, funk and soul singer, said she no longer had to worry about being "neither fish nor fowl." "I know what I am now," she declared. "I'm rock-and-roll."
- 2008 December 30, Bob Sommer, “The Education of David Frost”, in CounterPunch‎^[2], archived from the original on 2022-12-07:
  "Docudrama" is by its nature a confusing genre—neither fish nor fowl, and thus lacking either taste or substance. (Maybe tofu is a better analogy.)

Usage notes

In the 17th and 18th centuries, the term was primarily used literally.^[3]

Translations

not easily categorized; not rightly belonging or fitting well in a given group or situation; not having the advantages of the various options

Arabic: لا السمك ولا الطيور
Bulgarian: ни рак, ни риба (ni rak, ni riba)
Catalan: ni carn ni peix (ca), no ésser ni carn ni peix (ca)
Chinese:
Cantonese: 唔湯唔水 / 唔汤唔水 (yue) (m⁴ tong¹ m⁴ seoi², literally “neither soup nor water”)

Mandarin: 不倫不類 / 不伦不类 (zh) (bùlúnbùlèi), 非驢非馬 / 非驴非马 (zh) (fēilǘfēimǎ), 不三不四 (zh) (bùsānbùsì, literally “neither three nor four”), 四不像 (zh) (sìbùxiàng, literally “unlike any of the four”), 童牛角馬 / 童牛角马 (zh) (tóng niú jué mǎ)
Czech: ani ryba ani rak (literally “neither fish nor crayfish”)
Danish: hverken fugl eller fisk
Dutch: vlees noch vis (nl) (literally “meat nor fish”) (Netherlands), mossel noch vis (literally “neither mussel nor fish”) (Belgium)
Faroese: hvørki fuglur ella fiskur
Finnish: ei lintu eikä kala, outolintu
French: mi-figue mi-raisin (fr), ni chair ni poisson (fr) (dated)
Galician: nin arre nin xo (literally “neither too little nor too much”)
German: weder Fisch noch Fleisch
Hebrew: לא בשר ולא חלב
Icelandic: hvorki fugl né fiskur (is), viðrinislegur m (noun)
Irish: níl sé ina ghruth ná ina mheadhg
Italian: né carne né pesce
Japanese: 海の物とも山の物ともつかない (ja), 海の物とも山の物ともつかない (ja) (うみのものともやまのものともつかない, umi no mono tomo yama no mono tomo tsukanai, literally “neither things in the ocean nor things in the mountain”)
Latin: homō nūllīus colōris (literally “a man of no colour”)
Norwegian:
Bokmål: hverken fugl eller fisk (no)
Polish: ni pies, ni wydra (pl) (literally “neither dog nor otter”)
Portuguese: nem carne nem peixe
Romanian: nici cal nici măgar (literally “neither horse nor donkey”)
Russian: ни ры́ба ни мя́со (ru) (ni rýba ni mjáso, literally “neither fish nor meat”), ни бо́гу све́чка, ни чёрту кочерга́ (ni bógu svéčka, ni čórtu kočergá, literally “neither a candle for the God, nor a poker for the Devil”), ни два́ ни полтора́ (ru) (ni dvá ni poltorá, literally “neither two nor one and a half”), ни то́ ни сё (ni tó ni sjo, literally “neither that nor this”)
Serbo-Croatian:
Roman: ni pirka ni kanjac (idiom), ni riba ni meso (idiom)
Spanish: ni chicha ni limonada (es) (literally “neither chicha (an alcoholic beverage) nor lemonade”), ni de aquí ni de allá (Mexico)
Swedish: varken fågel eller fisk

References

^ “neither fish nor flesh (nor good red herring), also neither fish, flesh, nor fowl, phrase” under “fish, n.¹”, in OED Online ⁠, Oxford: Oxford University Press, December 2022.
^ E[benezer] Cobham Brewer (1895) “Fish”, in Dictionary of Phrase and Fable […], new edition, London, Paris: Cassell and Company, →OCLC, page 465, column 2.
^ See, for example, Edmund Bohun (1688) “Leinster”, in A Geographical Dictionary, Representing the Present and Ancient Names of All the Countries, Provinces, Remarkable Cities, Universities, Ports, Towns, Mountains, Seas, Streights, Fountains, and Rivers of the Whole World: […], London: […] Charles Brome, […], →OCLC, column 2: “[T]he Air is clear and gentle, the Earth fruitful both as to Graſs and Corn, ſo that it affords plenty of Butter, Cheeſe, and Cattle, and being vvell vvatered vvith Rivers, vvants neither Fiſh nor Fovvl, but then it has not much VVood.”; John Hawkesworth, editor (1775), “A Particular Account of the Places in which We Anchored during Our Passage through the Streight, and of the Shoals and Rocks that Lie near Them”, in An Account of the Voyages Undertaken by the Order of His Present Majesty, for Making Discoveries in the Southern Hemisphere, and Successively Performed by Commodore Byron, Captain Wallis, Captain Carteret, and Captain Cook, in the Dolphin, the Swallow, and the Endeavour: […], volume I, Dublin: […] James Williams, […], →OCLC, page 156: “VVe found a little celery and a fevv cranberries, but neither fiſh nor fovvl.”