How can I make dynamic separator more efficient ?.

Juan Pedro Espern Ingeniero Quimico

I heard reducing anchor of blades one can obtain more final product from reject of dynamic
separator and increase production without changing 1 day strenght. What do you think about it ?
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March 22, 2012
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suresh
suresh deolalkar
Director at Deolalkar Consultants
three factors govern the performance1 speed 2 air/material ratio 3 angle/no of blades on
rotor . designer of separator can advise you on specific problem
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o March 23, 2012

bhargava
bhargava rao
Tech Manager at Al Ghurair
You have two factors to adjust to improve the efficiency 1, static blade adjustment 2.
RPM of rotor. Only upto certain RPM of rotor, seperator is efficient. Over that seperator
efficiency comes down. Additional deflectors can be provided to improve the efficiency.
However, consultation with supplier is better.
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o March 23, 2012

Jagrut
Jagrut Upadhyay
Process Consultant at PEC Consulting (Penta Engg. Corp.) St. Louis, Missouri.
Dynamic separators need to be operated with max air flow in order to maintain desired
air velocity across the separator. In addition to above points, look for PERFECT seal
between rotor and the static part of the separator. This plays a vital role.
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o March 23, 2012
Eduardo Snchez likes this

Rana
Rana shahid
section incharg kiln utility and cement mills at Hail cement company
i am agree with bhargava rao and maintain wear tear of blades and roto and its parts
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o March 24, 2012

Hussain
Hussain Khan
at ACC Cement Company
Please once check separator seal, baled position and air damper position also.
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o March 25, 2012

Craig
Craig Puljan
Maintenance Manager at Lehigh Southwest Cement Company
Hello Juan, I agree with what Jagrut is saying. Please run your fan to achieve maximum
airflow through the separator and then adjust the rotor speed (RPM's) upwards in order to
achieve the sharpest particle size distribution. Doing this should show some kind of
production increase as you are getting particles out of the system
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o March 26, 2012

Craig
Craig Puljan
Maintenance Manager at Lehigh Southwest Cement Company
that can then be replaced by fresh feed. I hope you are successful! Kindest regards!
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o March 26, 2012

LUIS
LUIS FUENTES
PRODUCTION MANAGER at CEMEX UK
Dear Juan Pedro....I think these are the steps...maybe you already check them...but in case
not...these are in my opinion...
1.- Calculate the tromp curve, circulating charge. to decide if your eficiency is ok.
2.- Check if the air flow trough the mill and the separator is ok...measure with pitot.
3.- check if your using the right charge in the mill, and the right level of media.
4.- check if your diaphram intermediate and exit are ok, blockage, etc...if you have
cyclons, static separator, bag filters if they are in good conditions...
5.- check if the residue of size of the cement is well measured and calculated or if the
clinker characteristics are ok, clinker dusty, low uality of clinker, free lime, poor C3S, etc
require more finest in the cement mill and consequence the TPH of the mill reducing
sometimes...
6.- Check if the amount of water (in case you are using is ok) the spraying and the
temeperatures in the mill are ok?
7.- check if you have false airs in the separator system....holes, gaps.,etc.
8.- check if the mechanical equipment is in good conditions, blades, vibrations,
temperatures, oil, speed, dampers, etc...
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o March 26, 2012

Jagrut
Jagrut Upadhyay
Process Consultant at PEC Consulting (Penta Engg. Corp.) St. Louis, Missouri.
Hello Juan, Thanks to Craig for specifically mentioning about separator's speed. I would
also like to offer following comments, which might be useful.

It is generally accepted that high efficiency separators lead to a good performance of
grinding circuits and considerable saving of energy, The cause for a production increase
through the improvement of separator efficiency can be analysed as follows:
* to the improved separation characteristics, the amount of fines returned to the mill with
the rejects decreases considerably which avoids over grinding and wasting of grinding
energy at the mill. This mechanism is facilitated by the intensification of air sweeping
through the mill and the temperature reduction inside the mill which can be often
observed when using modern high efficiency separators.

* virtue of the improvement in cement quality, for the modified particle size distribution,
the possibility of reducing the specific surface area of cement arises. A high surface area
of cement promises the possibility of an increase in the production rate. This is due to
possibility of sever over grinding in the mill, especially when grinding aids are not used.

* more influence of high efficiency separators on the properties of the cement would be
the reduction of mill inside temperature. In conventional grinding circuits mill inside
temperatures were too high, and several types of cooling procedures were introduced in
the circuits. In modern type HESs, a large amount of cooling air can be efficiently
introduced in to the circuit.

This explains as to why the separator should be maintained in a manner in what it should
be.

Alteration of the volume of separating air:
As a general rule, the separator achieves the maximum possible throughput and the best
possible efficiency at the maximum volume of separating air. If the volume of separating
air is reduced, the product becomes finer, with the throughput and efficiency being
lower!! It might in some cases be subsequently found that the volume of separating air is
insufficient, so that a fresh air has to be installed in the air duct between the circulating
air fan and the separator. If this is done, it should be ensured that that the fan capacity is
adequate with regard to volume and pressure. In practical life, you will experience that
you can achieve the same residues on a particular sieve, with relatively lower Blaine,
when a properly maintained separator is optimized well.
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o March 26, 2012

Luis
Luis Lardizabal
Process Engineer in Portland Cement Industry
Can you provide a report tests that you have done to know the current condition ?
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o March 26, 2012

Separator performance
without Tromp curve what is the way to judge the separator performance by seive analysis of
rejects,feed & fines. what is the normal range of residues on 212,90,63,45,32 mic for better
efficiency of a separator in coarse,feed & fines & why?(for cement as well as raw meal) what is
the optimum efficiency of a high efficiency separator? raj
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138 posts
TimePosted 3 years ago
lalbatros says
Re: Separator performance
xxxx,
If you have residues on {212, 90 , 63, 45, 32} m for feed, coarse and fine, and if your product is
not too fine - as compared to 32m - , then you could evaluate a Tromp curve.
If you have less data, you have less chances to evaluate your separator, and vice-versa.
However, the main question is: what do you mean by "optimum efficiency"?
On a Tromp curve, you can observe the so-called "bypass level".
The bypass level indicates how much % of fine particles go to the coarse stream.
This measures, of course, and un-wanted behaviour or an "un-efficiency".
If the bypass is 40%, and if the production is 100 t/h, then, navely speaking, this means that 40
t/h of good product is returned to the mill.
This could be, navely, translated as an efficiency of 100/140 = 70% and would indicate that the
production could be increased by 40 t/h if the separator would be 100% efficient. Actually, the
impact of the bypass is lower but it increases with the fineness of the product (circulation
factor). This can be understood by a model of the complete grinding circuit.
My message is: to evaluate a seperator you do need to evaluate the Tromp curve.
The least you could get from the Tromp curve is the bypass factor.
If you don't have enough information for that, you cannot evaluate the separator.
Michel
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224 posts
TimePosted 3 years ago
xxxx says
Re: Separator performance
my question is what is the normal range of these residues for coarse,feed & product so that i can
compare for any improvement in the system raj
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138 posts
TimePosted 3 years ago
lalbatros says
Re: Separator performance
There is no answer to this question.
It depends on what you are producing.
For "system improvement", is it not enough to check the quality of the product and the
productivity t/h ?
If your focus is on "separator improvement", then it is all about the Tromp curve.
Here is some sample data to illustrate my point:
finish product
3500 Blaines, (P32,P45,P63,P90,P212) = (78%, 90%, 97%, 99.3%, 100%)
where P=1-R
feed
2450 Blaines, (P32,P45,P63,P90,P212) = (53%, 67%, 80%, 90%, 99.6%)
reject
1200 Blaines, (P32,P45,P63,P90,P212) = (23%, 39%, 61%, 79%, 98.9%)
Plant
Circulating load: 1.8

Separator
bypass: 10%
cut diameter: 40m (x50) (x75= 26m, x50= 40m, x25= 63m)
imperfection: 46% (=(x75-x25)/2/x50)
Mill
residues reduction factors: (= residue mill outlet / residue mill inlet)
@32m = 40%
@45m = 58%
@63m = 76%
@90m = 87%
@212m = 100% (!)
(this is calculated from residues and circulating load)
I don't see how you could use these data and compare them to your own data.
What is your product?
What is the product fineness?
What is you circulating load?

To evaluate your separator, you need the Tromp curve, even with very few points.
The bypass is one point of the Tromp curve that can be evaluated even with few data.