Summary of Items Discussed in APSEC Discussion Forum on 18 May 2012

Items proposed by Convenors for Discussion Summary of Discussion and BD’s Responses

Items raised by HKIA

1. Requirement of electrical charging under PNAP APP-2
PNAP APP-2 requires that for private carparking spaces to BD explained that while it was a projection that 30% of vehicles would be EV
be disregarded from GFA calculation under B(P)R 23(3)(b) in the long run, only carparking spaces in new buildings would be required to
they have to be electrical vehicle (EV) charging-enabling. have EV charging facilities and hence no diversity factor was adopted, i.e.
However, there is no mentioning regarding the diversity 100% carparking spaces had to be EV charging-enabling in new buildings.
factor in use of the charging facilities to be adopted. If the BD also advised that GFA exemption would be granted for all necessary
design of the fixed electrical system has to allow for all electrical rooms and installations associated with EV charging. Regarding
carparking spaces to be charging EVs all at the same time, exemption of GFA calculations for the space required for installing EV
the power requirement would be enormous and this is charging devices, especially those installed between carparking spaces, BD
unreasonable. It is also doubtful whether the local power requested HKIA to provide information on the space requirement of the
supply network can support such power requirement in all charging devices for consideration. BD would advise whether sockets should
new developments. The amount of carparking spaces having be provided for each carparking space before OP.
EV charging at the same time will also determine the number [Post-meeting note : BD confirmed that each carpark space should be
and sizes of transformer and switch rooms to be provided provided with electricity (provision of socket is
and hence the GFA exemption area for these essential optional) for EV charging before OP.]
facilities. Can BD provide more guidelines on this issue?

2. Requirement of open kitchen

Open kitchens are allowed in residential units with BD advised that in addition to complying with the FS Code 2011, in
conditions in the new Fire Safety Code. However, it is not particular its Clause C13.4 from the fire safety perspective, open kitchen
entirely clear regarding the lighting and ventilation should be located in a position where most of the open kitchen area could face
requirements when open kitchen designs are adopted. As the concerned prescribed window(s) of the room for the required natural

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 open kitchens are normally designed as part of the living lighting and ventilation. In calculating the openable window area provision
cum dining room of a residential unit we propose that the for a living/ habitable room incorporated with open kitchen, the requirements
only requirement should be for the living cum dining room stipulated in B(P)R 30(2)(a)(ii) might be adopted instead of B(P)R 36(2)(b).
window to satisfy B(P)R 30 & 32 as a room for habitation
generally and with the ventilation area slightly increased to
cater for the requirement under B(P)R36 for a notional area
of the open kitchen. No other requirement should be imposed
if the layout of the same living cum dining room should have
been acceptable under the regulations without the open
kitchen. Can BD confirm this?

3. Criteria for architectural features

In previous forum BD has confirmed that there has been no HKIA supplemented that the features/screens were usually grilles or louvres
change to the acceptance criteria for architectural features on and hence the proposed 30/70 ratio. However, BD’s initial view was that
external walls to screen off pipe works, which has been taken 30% free area might be too low and requested HKIA to provide details with
to mean that provided they are reasonable and not a higher free/solid ratio for consideration.
dominating the façade of the building architectural
features/screens projecting from the external wall by not
more than 500mm should be generally acceptable, including
these screens for pipe works. It is noted that for such
architectural features to be effective in screening off
unsightly pipe works, they have to be reasonably
non-transparent. However, some APs have experience that
additional requirements have been imposed for the screens to
be very transparent in order to be approved. This is quite
contrary to the intention of providing such features/screens.
Will BD please confirm that provided that these

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 features/screens do not in effect result in a complete
enclosure of the pipe works they should be acceptable?
Alternatively a reasonable free area-solid area ratio (say
30%/70%) per floor for these screens may be agreed.

4. Area of Refuse Storage and Material Recovery Chamber

Can BD clarify whether the area for parking of the Refuse BD’s preliminary opinion was that the area for parking RCV should not be
Collection Vehicle (RCV) in Refuse Storage and Material included as the required floor space of the RS&MRC, and BD would further
Recovery Chamber (RS&MRC) with vehicular access be clarify.
deducted from the area of provision in these chambers? [Post-meeting note : BD confirmed that the statement is correct.]

5. The definition of “street”

The definition of “street” in PNAP APP-152 (SBD BD advised that streets (including lanes) of width 4.5m or above which were
Guidelines) follows that of B(P)R 18A to include the first maintained by HyD would be subject to the building set back requirement.
two categories of specified streets thereunder. It follows that BD also remarked that for public lanes adjoining the lot that have to be
all public lanes and side alleys, however narrow they are, widened under lease to width of 4.5m or above would also be subject to the
under the management of Highways Department will fall building set back requirement.
under such definition. Can BD clarify that if it is the
intention of BA to eventually widen all these narrow lanes The above clarification would be incorporated in the definition of “street” in
and side alleys to 15m wide as the building setback Appendix A of PNAP APP-152 in the next revision exercise.
requirements are apparently applicable?

6. Calculation of compartment area and length under FS Code

2011
In the new Fire Safety Code compartment definition has BD advised as follows:
been changed from volumetric to planar. There are still For (a), if connected by floor openings without fire barriers, the compartment
compartments that may cover areas of different shapes on area should be the total areas of the concerned floors including all the void

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 different floors, such as in department stores where shutters areas.
are used to separate compartments around escalator voids.
(a) For the calculation compartment size, should the plan For (b), the length of compartment walls should be measured on a
areas of different floors of such a compartment (including floor-by-floor basis for calculation of the 25% under Clause 8.1.
void areas) be added to give the total compartment area or
the area of the largest floor within the compartment be taken
as the total compartment area? (b) Regarding the total length
of compartment walls for calculation of the 25% openings
under Clause 8.1, can compartment walls at different levels
be added together to give the total length?

7. Requirement of sprinkler head for shutter under FS Code

2011
Regarding the April version of the new Fire Safety Code, BD advised that this relaxation applies to both sprinklered protected buildings
Clause 8.1(a) requires “additional” sprinkler heads as one of and non-sprinklered protected buildings. The sprinkler heads required under
the condition to relax the insulation requirement of shutters Clause C8.1 were in addition to those required under the FSI Code. The
to 30 minutes. Does it mean that the relaxation only applies phrase “full coverage on each side of the fire rated door or fire shutter” meant
to a building where sprinklers are not originally provided? each side of the fire rated door or fire shutter should be fully wetted by the
Can BD clarify the term “full coverage on each side of the additional sprinkler heads installed for the purpose of Clause C8.1. The
fire rated door or fire shutter” as for a sprinkler system to be design and installation of these additional sprinkler heads should comply with
accepted by FSD the layout/array/coverage should comply the LPC Rules incorporating BS EN 12845:2003 and be accepted by FSD.
with the LPC Rules incorporating BS EN 12845:2003
anyway?.

8. Change of interpretation of regulations

There has been feedback from members that a change in the BD advised that APs could request the next higher level officer for a review if
responsible BS on a project often would lead to changes in they thought there was a change to previous interpretations, i.e. review by

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 the interpretation of regulations, even when plans have been SBS if BS’s interpretations were changed, review by CBS if SBS’s
approved and amendments do not involve the items interpretations were changed, etc.
concerned. This has led to problems of abortive works for [Post-meeting note : BD has reminded its staff to seek CBS’s endorsement
projects near OP and a general lack of confidence in the if there is a need to request AP to amend plans
plans approval process. Can BD confirm that an approval of showing building works which had already been
plans is a solemn act and plans already approved should be approved previously.]
respected as such even with a change of personnel?

9. Follow-up on previous items:-

(a) Whether all MOE requirements in the new Fire Safety (a) BD advised that pursuant to Table B1, a plant room exceeding 100m2 in
Code have to be applied to large plant rooms? net floor area (i.e. area within the enclosing walls of the plant room) should
be assessed for its occupant capacity. Persons who were expected to be
present in plant rooms should include authorized/maintenance personnel, and
the AP could exercise his professional judgment in providing suitable means
of exit therefrom for such personnel.

(b) Are catwalks and overhead maintenance corridors of (b) BD clarified that catwalks and overhead maintenance corridors that were
steel construction considered as “hanger” under the not performing the function as floor/beam/column of the building were not
definition of “Element of Construction”? “Element of Construction” and hence they were not required to have FRP/
FRR. Whilst such catwalks and overhead corridors offered exit for
authorized/maintenance personnel thereon, there was no requirement for such
exit routes to have FRP/ FRR.

(c) Are the areas of the car ramps considered occupied (c) BD advised that when shutters were deployed to form fire compartments
spaces requiring means of escape? Is there any in carparks for Table C1 purpose, in case the dispositions of the shutters
relaxation for complying with dead end and gradient would result in portions of the car ramps being dead-locked upon activation
requirements for MOE? of the shutters, it would be necessary to provide means of exit to the required

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 staircases/open area/ultimate place of safety to cater for any person who
might be trapped within such dead-locked portions of the car-ramp. The
distance and gradient requirements could be relaxed accordingly for
car-ramps.

(d) Can BD commit to a period within which objection or (d) BD advised that MWCS was a self-regulating control system which
comment may be issued to minor works submissions allowed “minor works” to be commenced or carried out under the “simplified
so that rectification work can be made within requirements” by prescribed building professionals (PBP)/prescribed
reasonable time but not after user-occupation or long registered contractors (PRC). Bearing in mind that the PBP/PRC had the
into license application procedures, etc.? obligation to ensure the subject works were in compliance with the BO and
other enactments, they should not rely on BD’s audit check on the
documents/works engaged by them. Minor Work Unit had advised that
taking into account of the large number of minor works submissions received
by BD and the limited resources currently available for handling of the
submissions, BD was not yet ready to commit a pledge on replying to
PBP/PRC.

(e) Recessed final point of exit at Ground Floor. (e) BD advised that the exit route from a staircase at ground storey should be
enclosed by fire barriers up to its ground storey discharge point leading
directly to an ultimate place of safety. The design of the ground storey
discharge point recessed from the ultimate edge of the building might be
acceptable if the covered recessed area was a common area, open in design
and not encumbered with features carrying fire hazards. Such recessed
covered areas would be counted for SC and PR. However, it would be
irrational to set any depth as an acceptable recess, and each case had to be
assessed based on its own design, layout and other relevant circumstances.

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 (f) The word “intermediate” has been removed from (f) BD confirmed the revision.
Clause B8.2(c) of the April version of the New Fire
Safety Code. Can BD re-confirm?

Items raised by AAP

10. JPN1 for Prefabricated External Facade
It is our understanding that the diagrams in Appendix B of Members of AAP would like to confirm with BD that the diagrams in
JPN2, in which the structural profile is very simplified and Appendix B of JPN2, in which the structural profile was represented by
do not contain any edge beams etc, are indicative only. The simple lines and did not contain any edge beams etc., are indicative
common practice of having an in situ edge beam at slab edge only. The common practice of having an in situ edge beam at slab edge to
to support the prefabricated external facade as marked on the support the non-structural prefabricated external walls (as marked on the
sketch attached below is acceptable for GFA exemption for attached sketch) was acceptable for GFA exemption for the non-structural
the prefabricated facade as long as other conditions are prefabricated external walls as long as other conditions are complied with.
complied. Please advise if the above understanding is
correct since some BS requested the deletion of the edge The above was confirmed by BD.
beam in GBP amendment.

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11. Validity period for modification exemption approval
(For redevelopment project) Would it be possible to extend Members of AAP questioned whether consent will be granted for approvals
the validity period of the modification approval if the of more than two years ago as long as no new building regulations have come
superstructure consent cannot be obtained by the deadline into force.
stated in the permit due to the Applicant's inability to secure
vacant possession on time for demolition and foundation Discussion:

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 works due to: BD confirmed that S16(3)(d) of the Buildings Ordinance would not be
invoked to refuse consent for plans approved more than 2 years ago unless:
Full ownership of site has been acquired and (i) New building regulations had come into force after approval of plans
demonstrated. But the existing tenancies don’t allow the and consent to commence works of such approved plans had not been
developer to take vacant possession on time to start the granted (details were set out in paragraph 15 of PNAP APP-97); or
Demolition and Foundation Works. (ii) A validity period was imposed in a Form BD 106 for the approval of
Plans submitted before 21-10-2010 and plans and the validity period has expired.
approved. Subsequent amendment involves modifications
which BD approved with validity period. However, full
ownership was not obtained on time to allow developer to
take vacant possession to start Demolition / Foundation
Works.

12. Time for approval by BD and FSD

The time for getting timely GBP approval is getting longer BD would convey the message to FSD regarding this item. BD would also
and longer, and often statutory period cannot be met. We remind its staff to liaise with APs for early amendment of plans to facilitate
observe that FSD and BD both have similar problems. early approval of plans.

13. FS Code 2011 - Atrium height

Clause C 10.3 restricts the atrium height to be less than 15m Members of AAP pointed out that the 15m height limit for atriums should be
high / 3 storey high. This creates problems for School applicable to indoors atrium without natural ventilation only, and atriums
project where the normal height at the central grand stair commonly found in school or institutional building with natural ventilation
void of School is at least 24m which is the building height. should be exempted.
We suggest BD to define the meaning of the "Atrium" to
internal atrium where smoke can be trapped. For atriums School buildings are normally 24 m high and their corridors usually face a
with 2 sides open like the staircase void in school, the 15m common circulation stair inside a naturally ventilated atrium space. This
restriction should not apply. Fire engineering approach for atrium needs to be over 15m high, and according to the current description in

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 school projects is not practical as these projects cannot wait the COP requires a fire engineering approach for approval. However, the
6-9 months for the approval of the fire engineering report. fire risk of a natural ventilated atrium should be much less than an internal
atrium and a fire engineering approach seems redundant. A lot of
unnecessary works for the AP and BD is induced for the preparation,
submission and vetting of the fire engineering report for such atriums which
do not have high fire risks. The process is also causing extreme difficulties
for school and institutional buildings as these projects usually have extremely
tight schedule.

BD advised that during the drafting of the FS Code, the 15m high restriction
was mainly intended for application in indoor commercial atriums. Since
the designs and layouts of buildings varied, it would be impractical to give a
definition on “atrium”. Openings at floors for passage of staircase(s) and/or
escalator(s) would not be taken as an atrium under Clause C10.3, unless the
openings were much larger than the plan area of the staircase(s) or
escalator(s) in which case they might be regarded as an atrium. Also where
the concerned area was open on two sides to the external air, depending on
the layout, it might not be taken as an atrium in the context of the FS Code.
BD would take a pragmatic approach in applying the requirement of ‘atrium’
under Clause C10.3, taking into consideration the natural ventilation and the
design aspects on a case by case basis in vetting GBP submissions.

Items raised by HKIS

14. Existing void above the cinema
In the case of converting old style circle type cinemas into BD advised that applications for exemption of the existing void above
other uses such as restaurants or shops, BD sometimes would cinemas from GFA arising from A&A works had been accepted by BD from
consider the existing void above the cinema be included as time to time. BD would consider each case on its own merits and AP should

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 GFA, thus rendering the conversion unviable if the existing submit a Form BD 106 together with justifications for consideration by BD.
GFA of the development is already exhausted. HKIS would
put forward that BD should adopt a more pragmatic and
flexible approach when considering such A&A submissions.

Items raised by HKIE

15. FS Code 2011 - Protection against Spread of Fire and Smoke
Between Floors under
In previous 1996 FRP code page 14, Item 12, protection BD advised that the purpose of the down-stand was to activate sprinkler
against Spread of Fire and Smoke between floors regarding protection as spelled out in the Commentary to Clause C10.1. To cater for
the 450mm drop barrier, there is this statement, “having tight headroom situations, an acceptable alternative was already spelled out in
regard to the difficulties in some situations in providing Clause C10.1(b) by using smoke curtain; and the specification for smoke
barriers due to LOW HEADROOM, alternatives installations curtain for the purpose had been supplemented in the Commentary to Clause
such as smoke reservoirs, perforate or open ceilings…. may C10.1 in the April 2012 version. Submission of a fire engineering
be considered,” But the above statement in omitted in the assessment for such purpose was not required if the proposal complied with
new 2011 COP, does that mean ONLY 450 drop barrier will Clause C10.1(b) and the details specified in the Commentary.
be accepted and OPEN CEILINGS will be disapproved?
This may induce problem for A&A projects with low
existing floor to floor height, especially at areas of escalators
landing where a clear height of 2.3m is required for
satisfying EMSD’s requirement and this drop panel will
compromise the required clear height. Please clarify.

16. FS Code 2011 - Insulation Fire Shutters

It’s been difficult to source suppliers supplying BD advised that a number of local products were already available in the
INSULATION Fire shutters (required for Fire Shutters > market. BD would only upload these products information in its Central Data
25% of compartment perimeter by the new Fire Code). Bank upon issuance of OP.

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 Most suppliers claim that they have not developed such a
model. Does BD have an approved list of suppliers for these
Fire Shutters?

17. GFA accountable extent for atrium void

For measurement of GFA at edge of an atrium void, a BD confirmed that for calculation of GFA of a floor involving atrium void,
reasonable way for measurement is towards the edge of the parent structural support to cladding or other finishing materials should be
concrete or steel structure. [Dimension (A) as marked on included as accountable floor area.
sketch attached below refers] However, in some cases, case
officer considers GFA is also accountable for the small
portion between the concrete structure and the interior
cladding at the spandrel. [Dimension (B) as marked on
sketch attached below refers]. This seems insensible as the
cladding is an interior finish and is not accessible by visitors.
Is there any clear guideline?

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18. Tension resistance of a pile
In piling plan submission, the tension resistance of a pile is BD advised that the effective shape of mass of rock lifted was dependent on
required to be checked in case there is a net tension force on the degree of jointing, fissuring and the inclination of the bedding plane of the
the pile. In the current practice, the tension resistance rock. The common approach for calculating the rock mass for pull-out
should be checked with effective dead weight of the soil resistance was to adopt a half angle of 30 degrees cone and the shear at
mass of a conical volume from the pile toe against a FOS of interface between the cone surface and surrounding rock and soil would be
1.5. The frictional resistance of the conical surfaces neglected. If frictional resistance in soil and rock layers of failure cone are
between soil to soil as well as rock to rock face are not to be included in the stability checking, the RSE should submit detailed
allowed to be taken into consideration. This approach is geotechnical justifications to support his assessment.
very conservative and making some pile foundation
unnecessarily deep into bedrock in particular for those

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 development project with deep basement (high flotation
force) and shallower rockhead. It is suggested to allow the
application of the frictional resistance between soil and rock
in the conical failure checking.

19. Value for measurement of Scale Factor

Table 8.1 of the CoP for Site Supervision 2009 specifies the BD advised a Technical Committee (TC) on Site Supervision Plan will be
Basic Value for measurement of Scale Factor. In view of formed shortly. The TC will review CoP and recommend for updating if
recently sharp escalation of construction cost, these values found necessary.
may not be valid. It is suggested to review the Table and
other aspects of the CoP to cope with the current industry.

20. Design wind load in ELS Design

Can we adopt 70% of design wind load in ELS design for BD advised that the structural design of the ELS works should take into
wind force induced by adjacent structures in accordance with account the full wind loads induced from the adjacent building structure in
clause 4.3 of the CoP on Wind Effects in HK 2004? accordance with the wind code.

AOB
21. Matters arising from item 22(b) of the last APSEC BD reminded members to convey the message to members of their
Discussion Forum of 16.3.2012 regarding soft copy of organizations and to provide their response to such request to BD.
Record Plans for R&VD in AutoCAD or Microstation
format. (Item raised by BD)

22. Design of window floor boxes (Item raised by BD) In relation to a recent tragic incident of a girl who fell to her death from a
flower box attached to her flat when standing thereon to do cleaning, BD
requested members to disseminate to fellow members of their respective

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institutes/associations our call for all APs to re-visit their building projects in
hand that had been granted with consent to commence building works but
such works were not yet completed to OP stage. If projects incorporated
with window flower boxes that did not comply with the design criteria tabled
at the joint BSC/APSEC 1/12 meeting on 4.5.2012 were identified, the AP
concerned should explore alternative measures that could be implemented to
ensure the safe use of the flower boxes by future occupants, and submit
amendment building plans incorporating such measures for approval or
approach BD colleagues for discussion on the proposed alternative measures
before formal submission of the building amendment plans.

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