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Ta Shema

@no-context-daf-yomi

Read Talmudic sages saying some unhinged and beautiful things

Makkot 2b:6 — but what if other witnesses render the second set of witnesses wicked and the first set righteous? And what if another set of witnesses render the third set wicked, the second set righteous, and thus the first set wicked? And what if… So on and so forth. Who deserves the lashes?

I can feel it in my bones a sage addresses this turtles-all-the-way-down-type situation somewhere. Probably someone known for stirring things up just for the fun of it.

On a more serious note, I find it interesting for the purposes of this tractate, “the wicked” is treated as synonymous with false witnesses

Sanhedrin 113a:16-113b:1 — R. Yosei B’Tzippori: “Eliyahu, bless his heart, can be a bit… difficult”

Eliyahu Hanavi: “ok rude” *proceeds to be difficult*

And that’s the end of Sanhedrin! It’s customary to recite Kaddish Hagadol at a siyum if you studied with a minyan.

Sanhedrin 112a:18 — Yishmael, buddy, I don’t think the presence of a city square or the lack thereof has any bearing on the actions of the populace

Idolatrous city ('Ir Hanidahat) as opposite to a city of the idolatrous ('Ir Nidahim) needs a public place for idolatry, at the time of the Mishnah, that was a city square. So a city to be idolatrous needs a square. Obv.

Oh fun context!

It’s not that R. Yishmael is wrong — especially with “the Sages taught” (תנו רבנן) immediately preceding — it’s just that the concept of city-square-centric determinism is endlessly funny to me

Sanhedrin 110a:9 — Rav Chisda: “Disagreeing with your teacher is like disagreeing with G-d”

B’nei Yisrael — Stiff of Neck, Masters of Disagreement, and world famous for literally fighting G-d that one time: “Lol. Lmao, even.”

שבוע טוב!

Sanhedrin 109b: Eliezer, servant of Avraham, is tired of your shenanigans.

109b:3 — How bad do you have to be to earn the name Perverter of Justice when your colleagues are named Liar McLiarson and Pant bar Ire

109b:5 — Eliezer has not the time for this

109b:6 — Failed a deception check

109b:8 — He is absolutely sick of this place

wait, I recognise that bed thing. apparently killing people who don't fit your bed was common around the Mediterranean, because there's a dude called Procrustes in the myth of how Theseus came to Athens, and he did the same thing- inviting his guests to sleep on a bed (made of iron, in his case), and either stretching them out or cutting them to fit.

presumably one of those stories is based on the other, which I'd say is neat.

Oh that is very neat! It’s not uncommon or surprising for some stories in the Talmud to take inspiration from Greek and Roman sources, especially when you consider how long the region was controlled by those respective empires. In this case, it’s likely the story was inspired by Procrustes and adapted by the Rabbis for their purposes.

This is a part of a longer discussion about whether certain groups of both Jews and Gentiles have a share in the World-to-Come — essentially classifying which sins could be considered unforgivable. It’s important to note the Rabbis generally lean towards giving everyone a chance to make restitution (to the point where G-d humorously sneaks some people in a secret back door so people don’t get mad at who gets let in), but Sodom’s hyperbolically corrupt courts and lack of hospitality fall in the unforgivable category, emphasizing that the pursuit of justice and hospitality as very important values for communities to strive for.

Since killing your guests is generally considered not very hospitable, the Procrustes myth was great for making that point. Thanks for providing some context!

While you were eating dates in Babylonia, I studied the bl…Torah

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froshele-deactivated20250116

somebody really has to make an anime or at least a webtoon about this whole cohort of guys. honestly and desperately i need to see someone draw it. there are things too good to not show the rest of the world.

exhibit a, rav yosei (yosef was his full name) presumably fanning himself with his hand and sighing and giving us this

exhibit b: every proverb about rabbi drama but especially this one

EXHIBIT C:

foolish bird is the translator editorializing. what he said to him (for context they had been going back and forth a while) was a bit stronger, more like 'demented ostrich'

Exhibit D was going to be the time R" Sheshet clowned on someone making fun of his blindness and then superman laser eyed him into a pile of ashes but this post is already running long and I do not recall where the story is. anyway (banging fist on table) multigenerational tanna/amora comedy for the people by the people! jumblr be brave you can do this

Sanhedrin 109a:16 — R. Yosei was always dramatic, even in death. ז״ל

christians: what could possibly be in that evil book…. what horrible spells does it hold within its pages… what black magic does it propagate….

the talmud: so if you send your kid off to Torah school but he has a really hard time with it, send him back home and go to school yourself instead so that once you’ve learned Torah you can go and teach your entire family. in fact, once some rabbi went out to go to Torah school and do just this, and on his way he came through this town and he asked if he could stay in the synagogue for the night. and of course the rabbi said yes but weird enough no one was in the streets and something was kind of off about the whole place. so our hero went into the synagogue only to find a seven headed demon just hanging out in the library!! our hero is terrified and prays super hard and because of this the demon is vanquished. he goes back to the rabbi and is like “dude wtf” and the rabbi was like “listen i know this is unorthodox but you’re well known for how good at praying you are and this demon has been terrorizing us for well over a month and we were desperate. we knew you wouldn’t die” and the guy was like “i didn’t know that!” who do you think is in the right? hm. tough question. anyway. what were we talking about again? oh right. what if you make your sukkah doorway 1/7 of a cubit too short. would that be fucked up or what

look up Bavli Kiddushin 29b <3

I really need non Jews to understand that the Talmud is mostly just a bunch of nerds arguing about their hyperfixation.

This is why I love scholarly discussions with the Jewish community!

With gentiles, there's always a yes or no type of answer, but with us its always a big philosophical debate!

I once had a very silly debate with a rabbi and some other community members about how I could give my cat his own bar mitzvah.

We decided that:

1) it would be need to be when he was 8 months old because that it the cat equivalent of being 13 years old

2) we would need to set it up like for a child who has learning differences because my cat cannot read

3) for the hora dance, someone would have to sit in the chair with him so he does not jump off

It was all very ridiculous but so much fun!

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