Property talk:P54
Documentation
sports teams or clubs that the subject represents or represented
| Represents | sports team (Q12973014) | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Data type | Item | ||||||||||||
| Template parameter | en:Template:Infobox ice hockey player (league) | ||||||||||||
| Domain | human (Q5), fictional human (Q15632617), mascot character (Q386208), mascot (Q18670161), group of humans (Q16334295), fictional character (Q95074) or VTuber (Q55155641) | ||||||||||||
| Example | Diego Maradona (Q17515) → FC Barcelona (Q7156) Marcel Kittel (Q462839) → Team dsm-firmenich PostNL (Q247956) | ||||||||||||
| Robot and gadget jobs | I already have a bot that can scrape this data from enwiki infoboxes for hockey players, need to get it to work with Wikidata API. Legoktm (talk) 01:34, 5 February 2013 (UTC) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P54 (Q23908977) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: local yes, WD no | Category:Member of sports team not in Wikidata, but available on Wikipedia (Q28867735) | ||||||||||||
| See also | coach of sports team (P6087), category for members of a team (P6112) | ||||||||||||
| Lists | |||||||||||||
| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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| Search for values |
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Value type Q847017, Q12973014, Q115898316, Q989470, Q98767736, Q56850094, Q25178247, Q1066670, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Type Q5, Q15632617, Q386208, Q18670161, Q16334295, Q95074, Q55155641, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL
if [item A] has this property (member of sports team (P54)) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history. (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Contemporary, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Scope, SPARQL
if [item A] has this property (P54) linked to [item B],
then [item A] and [item B] have to coincide or coexist at some point of history.
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P54#Contemporary, SPARQL
Anyone who was a member of a team which is part of a university and college sports club (Q2367225) should also have an educated at (P69) statement. (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P54 ?team. ?team wdt:P831 ?club. ?club wdt:P31 wd:Q2367225. OPTIONAL { ?item wdt:P69 ?college. } FILTER(!BOUND(?college)) }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P54#College player with no education details
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This property is being used by:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
Discussion
[edit]Deletion proposal
[edit]In November 2013 a request for deletion was made for this property; the conclusion was to keep it (see deletion discussion).
Years of membership
[edit]This is an important property for the description of sportspeople in team sports. But we need to add a function which shows the years in which the player X was active for the individual clubs. In all Wikipedia infoboxes for soccer, volleyball, handball players we have the years along with the clubs. --MSchnitzler2000 (talk) 01:06, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
- You can now use qualifiers to describe that. - Sarilho1 (talk) 19:05, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Qualifiers available for this property
[edit]Hello,
I haven't managed to find the list of the qualifiers available for this property. In my opinion, the qualifiers "start date" and "end date" won't be sufficient. Most sports infoboxes (and list) will also require the following data :
- number of seasons/years played
- number of appearances with the team/number of matches played
- number of points scored for the team
Does these qualifiers already exist or are they still to be created ? Casper Tinan (talk) 17:28, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
- Looks like there is no solution for this problem yet? If we want to use Infobox data from Wikidata/import infobox data into Wikidata, this needs to be solved for some sports (for other sports start date/end date might be sufficient, depending on the infobox). --Bthfan (talk) 20:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Property used for players only?
[edit]Hi,
do we agree that this property should be used for players only? In my opinion it should be, it just came to my mind that someone might also use this property for head coaches or similar. Note we have head coach (P286) 
for head coaches, I'm not sure yet where/how to categorize if someone was or is an assistant coach (probably belongs to another discussion page). --Bthfan (talk) 15:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, member of sports team (P54) is only for the players of the team. For other positions within a sports club, you can use occupation (P106). Casper Tinan (talk) 08:27, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- BTW: We recently had a discussion how to tag that someone has worked as a coach for a sports team (in the entry of that person), one solution was now to use of (P642) as qualifier for occupation->[subclass of] coach to indicate for what team someone has worked as coach. Otherwise this property P54 would also have been an idea to use for that (although you now clarified it's for players only). See Wikidata:Project_chat#How_to_tag_assistant_coaches_.28sports.29.2C_new_property_needed.3F for the discussion on this. So we need to fix a few item entries on this, I'll do that (it's only a few items that are affected), to quote myself:
- "BTW: I looked a bit around on Wikidata what others did by looking for entries with qualifier "start date" for occupation->coach (or subclasses thereof), I only found entries using member of sports team (P54) to specify the team, which in some way relates to my other comment/question on this: Property P54 used for players only? (there I agreed with this as otherwise coach data would be "merged" into the player data property). See Zlatan Bajramović (Q207120)
or Werner Dreßel (Q100517) for examples how those items use that property (note usage slightly differs between those examples)" --Bthfan (talk) 20:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- BTW: We recently had a discussion how to tag that someone has worked as a coach for a sports team (in the entry of that person), one solution was now to use of (P642)
Value type "sports club (Q847017)" Constraint
[edit]I have strong doubts regarding the relevance of the first constraint (Value type "sports club (Q847017)") :
1/ The constraint violations report for this constraint contains almost only false-positive cases , mainly claims linking an item to a sport team or a subclass of sport team.
2/ It is somewhat redundant with the second constraint (Value type "sports organisation (Q4438121)")
3/ Strictly speaking, this property should point to sports team and not sports club. A sports club may encompass several sports team (men and women, underage and senior, etc.).
IMO, this constraint should be removed. --Casper Tinan (talk) 15:05, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Support --Pasleim (talk) 18:54, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Constraints date of birth (P569) and place of birth (P19)
[edit]Is it reasonable to have the properties date of birth (P569) and place of birth (P19) as mandatory properties? Often they are simply unknown and therefore cannot be added. Yellowcard (talk) 11:38, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- The advantage of keeping P569 is that it can suggest users to enter it if it's available. I'd remove P19 though.--- Jura 11:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Is it a special tool that suggests the properties or how it is being suggested? Yellowcard (talk) 11:42, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Currently it's just on Special:ConstraintReport. At some point in the future, it should appear directly on the page. --- Jura 11:45, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Is it a special tool that suggests the properties or how it is being suggested? Yellowcard (talk) 11:42, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Alright, thanks. So back to the initial question: Why would you differ between P569 and P19? I don't really see the difference as all players do have both birthday and birthplace, the question is if we can find out about this information. I was asking because of the constraint violations report that contains many items without birthday and birthplace -- and the reason often is that they are simply unknown. (In case my questions sound stupid: Sorry, I've never got in touch with these constraints before.) Yellowcard (talk) 11:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Year of birth is more likely to be known than place of birth. Currently there are just 8000 dates for 150000 missing. At least 1700 can be found at Wikipedia [1]. --- Jura 14:19, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- Alright, thanks. So back to the initial question: Why would you differ between P569 and P19? I don't really see the difference as all players do have both birthday and birthplace, the question is if we can find out about this information. I was asking because of the constraint violations report that contains many items without birthday and birthplace -- and the reason often is that they are simply unknown. (In case my questions sound stupid: Sorry, I've never got in touch with these constraints before.) Yellowcard (talk) 11:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I assume that instead of series ordinal (P1545) rather sport number (P1618) should be used. I suggest to change this in the constraints above. Yellowcard (talk) 11:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
Oppose I strongly disagree. Those properties have very different meanings. series ordinal (P1545) is for the number of the sportsperson in the list of all players that played for the selected team whereas sport number (P1618) is for the number on there jersey. For instance, 'Richie McCaw (Q726148) > member of sports team (P54) > New Zealand national rugby union team (Q55801) > series ordinal (P1545) > 1014' doesn't mean Richie McCaw wears '1014' on his jersey but it means that he was the 1014th player to ever start a match for the All Blacks. --Casper Tinan (talk) 22:12, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- @Casper Tinan: Alright, that makes sense, thank you. However, sport number (P1618) should still be added for the number on the jersey, shouldn't it? Or is the roster items such as roster of Montreal Impact (Q21011427) the better place for the jersey numbers rather than the players' items? Regards, Yellowcard (talk) 08:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Adding point in time (P585)
[edit]And another one: I suggest to add point in time (P585) for allowed qualifiers. It is often used to express the date the current data is from, especially data like number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) and number of points/goals/set scored (P1351). However, it is only reasonable if start time (P580) is also given. Any opinions on that? Yellowcard (talk) 11:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- I think point in time (P585) was removed from the list of allowed qualifiers because some people just added point in time (P585) 19xx for each year in which a player had played for a given instead of using start time (P580) and end time (P582). Your proposal seems reasonable but I think it would very difficult to make people limit their use of start time (P580) to just this case. --Casper Tinan (talk) 22:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
- I see the problem, but couldn't it be solved by adding a constraint that point in time (P585) is only allowed when start time (P580) is also given? If people use point in time (P585) in the way you described (and that is obviously wrong) it will still be a constraint violation. But if they use it only to express the last update of the data, it has to come with start time (P580) and makes sense, then. (Next consideration would be to forbid point in time (P585) if both start time (P580) and end time (P582) are given – because in that case the data will not change any more and does not need a qualifier for the last update.) What do you think on that? Yellowcard (talk) 08:55, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
(Sorry for opening so many threads in parallel.) @Casper Tinan: You reverted my removal of points for (P1358) as allowed property. However, points for (P1358) is not intended for the number of goals / ponints / ... a player scored, but for the usage in league tables, competitions and so on. Therefore, I don't see any situation when points for (P1358) is properly used as qualifier for this property. It should always be replaced with number of points/goals/set scored (P1351), shouldn't it? Yellowcard (talk) 08:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
- You are right. For a reason I don't know, the practice drifted from what was agreed on and people started to use points for (P1358) just like number of points/goals/set scored (P1351). I even contributed to it myself. I think the label of both properties should be changed (at least in french).
--Casper Tinan (talk) 10:34, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
- I cannot tell for French, but for both German and English it seems quite clear to me. I remove it from the constraints list again, then. Yellowcard (talk) 11:22, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Removal of the constraints regarding date of birth, place of birth and sex or gender.
[edit]Following the recent discussion on the project chat concerning constraints and people, I propose to remove the constraints regarding date of birth, place of birth and sex or gender. These constraints don't concern the correct use of member of sports team (P54) but the completeness of the items related to human beings. Cases where the item has no date of birth, place of birth or gender will still be listed on this page. --Casper Tinan (talk) 07:25, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- As there has been no objection to this proposal, I'm going to remove these constraints. --Casper Tinan (talk) 19:11, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Constraint Sport organization
[edit]The constraint sports organization (Q4438121) is to general. It contains also things like sports governing body (Q2485448), sports league (Q623109), youth system (Q4119268) and Gaelic Athletic Association (Q548520), which are not valid statements for a sports team or club. Steak (talk) 08:48, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
What are appropriate start and end times in cases where team membership was intermittent?
[edit]I note numerous cases where an athlete will be on say their country's national team maybe 3 times in a five-year stretch, say 1977, 1979, 1982. Assume further that only the year is available.
Since 'point in time' is not permitted, I can see two approaches to qualifying team membership in these circumstances:
- use start time = Min (1977, 1979, 1982) and end time as the Max of those years.
- Make three different claims each with one start/stop pair for each discontinuity. Since only single years are provided, start/stop would be the same year.
Are there a policy for such cases?
Lisp.hippie (talk) 23:37, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Ah. I see from this query: "tinyurl.com/yaparecy" that the latter approach is quite commonly used. I'll proceed on that assumption.
Qualifier esport
[edit]I added sport (P641) as a valid qualifier, ONLY TO BE USED in case of multisport people. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 06:34, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
- I added competition class (P2094) as a valid qualifier, for those sports where the it defines the level of championship that person is allowed. For instance, for sport (P641) = motorcycle sport (Q328716), the competition class (P2094) are each of the Grand Prix motorcycle racing (Q850292) categories. If the P54 is the historical trajectory, it must not only show its teams, but also the person's professional level at any given time. It is only necessary in those sports where there are several categories within the professional stage. --Amadalvarez (talk) 13:48, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
I understand the point behind this restriction. But on the other hand, I also see that this creates a lot of mistakes. This property is not only used by football or handball players, where you usually know from when to when the players played for this club. Track and field athletes and winter sports enthusiasts also belong to clubs and they represent them in competitions. For these athletes, however, it is usually not clearly known from when to when they were with the club. That is why the restriction leads to errors there and that is why I would suggest that this restriction be removed. --Gymnicus (talk) 11:10, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
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