Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/March 2006

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Thoughts

Please share your thoughts about this. (^_^) --日本穣 05:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

This is an excellent idea, and I'd be more than happy to help with this when possible. -- Miwa 05:22, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to throw out ides for improvement and such. I'd like to have this pretty fleshed-out before making it "live". --日本穣 05:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Context

Is the purpose of this project to enforce the Wikipedia:Manual of Style for Japan-related articles or will it cover more than that? I keep to the anime pages on Wikipedia, so I'll use it as an example. The biggest problem with anime (and manga) is Layout of pages, content and organization. Anime articles look very different to each other, some have a section for characters and incorporate into that section aspects of the anime while other pages do the opposite. The pages themselves are not organized into categories very well at all.

As it stands the request section lists Anime, Buddhism, Manga, Role-playing games, Video games, Wikipedia:Requested articles/Japan and Wikipedia:Translation into English/Japanese. All of these with the exception of Wikipedia:Requested articles/Japan are to do with People and Culture. From the rest of the article it seems that Places and History are the context of the project. I assume that all of the above are important to the project, I think its interesting to note that at this early stage the requests section doesn't match the rest of the article. --Squilibob 08:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I expanded the goals section on the main page. Please let me know if that answers your question about the purposes of this project. As for the Requests, that's just what I cobbled together from poking around. It was mainly to have something there and begin trying to organize the big tangled mess that is the Japanese article group. (^_^) I welcome any suggestions for improvement, etc. This is just in the beginning stages, and I don't think it's yet ready for tossing out into the main namespace. I want to get a few things organized first. --日本穣 08:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it ready?

I think it's probably ready for moving out to the main area of the site. It's not completely perfect, but it's better than some others I've seen that are already active projects. (^_^) What do you think? --日本穣 21:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...I'm thinking I'll just be bold and put it out there. (^_^) --日本穣 21:53, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Please discuss any related topics here. --日本穣 22:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm working primarily with Owarai right now, but if you need any aid with anything, let me know. If I don't know, my wife will. struggle 23:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. (^_^) --日本穣 03:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

we need a userbox

I think that we should have a userbox, so that we can identify ourselves and draw attention to the project. I have no clue about how to make a userbox, though. --Tachikoma 16:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'll probably get to that sometime this week, but if someone else wants to make one before I do, I'm fine with that. (^_^) --日本穣 18:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's an idea for one:

This user is a participant in WikiProject Japan.

Thoughts? --日本穣 23:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. And thank you for not using the flag. Miyajima's Torii is a perfect choice. LordAmeth 23:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

That looks fine, and to echo what LordAmeth said, that image is a nice alternative to the flag. --Tachikoma 00:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the flag was just something to put in the space until I (or someone else) came up with a good alternative. Also, please use {{User WPJapan}} as I moved the template since it's a userbox. --日本穣 01:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

You should probably also take into account other possible spellings, such as WP Japan and WikiProjects Japan. I don't know if a simple page redirect does that. --Tachikoma 01:05, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Redirects do that. And I really like the userbox design.--み使い Mitsukai 01:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

There's {{Wikiproject Japan}}. (I didn't give it that name.) It looks like this:

This user is a participant in WikiProject Japan.

Fg2 01:12, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...that seems to be an odd thing for a userbox. I wonder if anyone would care if we absconded with it and turned it into a redirect? --日本穣 02:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've absconded with it and repaired all the appropriate links. --日本穣 20:31, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

James Clavell

I hope no one objects, but I have taken the liberty of adding several James Clavell-related articles to the project, namely The Asian Saga, Shogun (novel), Gai-Jin (novel), and Shogun (miniseries). Shogun, in particular, both in print and TV adaptation is considered a notable promoter of Japanese history and I think qualifies for inclusion here. I'm not sure about adding Clavell's biographical article to the project, but I certainly wouldn't complain, although his sum career is more widely Asian in nature than strictly Japanese. 23skidoo 01:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. (^_^) --日本穣 02:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Bot-powered redirect fixing?

Does anyone have or know of a bot that could fix a bunch of redirects?

• Special:Whatlinkshere/Shōnen manga (everything needs to point to Shōnen manga)
• Special:Whatlinkshere/Shōjo manga (everything needs to point to Shōjo manga)
• Special:Whatlinkshere/Seinenn manga (everything needs to point to Seinen manga)
• Special:Whatlinkshere/Josei manga (everything needs to point to Josei manga)

(^_^) --日本穣 23:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I have been redirecting the shōjo manga links on articles. I've done them all except pages that really need to link to a shōjo anime or shōjo genre page. I'm not sure that a substantial article could be made for either though and I have redirected shōjo anime to shōjo manga for now. What are your ideas on creating such articles? --Squilibob 14:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking a disamboguation page could be created for Shōjo (and the other three above) which explained the different uses and linked to appropriate pages. --日本穣 18:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm reverting this change, it makes more sense in English language articles to deal with the manga and anime at the same time when discussing these terms. Can people not discuss major moves on the pages in question before suggesting mass bot-involving changes? --zippedmartin 22:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

No, because "Shōjo" is not the same thing as "Shōjo manga". The articles in questions specifically discuss manga, with a little anime thrown in (and anime is less likely to fall into a specific category as it's geared toward as broad an audience as possible). They do not discuss "Shōjo" or any of the others except in passing. --日本穣 23:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes Zippedmartin is right in saying articles deal with both anime and manga at the same time, using shōjo as a genre. Nihon's point is that many pages are using shōjo as a type of manga. The main shōjo article should deal with the genre as a whole and shōjo manga should remain as a separate article that discusses only the shōjo manga. Thoughts? --Squilibob 02:10, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. We need both, and the current articles deal almost exclusively with manga. And, as I said, plugging a specific anime into any one genre is much more difficult as anime are almost always adapted into something that's a little more ambiguous and hard to pigeon-hole. --日本穣 03:17, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Then it's the articles that need changing, not their locations (which as you were redirecting 'x anime' to 'x manga', was premature without the actual text. Sub articles can be split off for manga/anime, if the main ones get to long. Anyway, have rewritten shōjo to be less lame, giant lists in articles belong not. Didn't have time to write a proper history for 50 years of manga and anime, though. (also, please people, it's not a genre...) --zippedmartin 18:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Here's my proposed rewrite of Shōnen. I don't think moving the current Shōnen to Shōnen manga would be bad because a very large number of specific title articles that deal with both the anime and manga are titled "Title (manga)", so we wouldn't be doing anything unusual here. The rewrite is basically a translation of the Japanese article, which makes it fit into more categories than just anime and manga, which is a good thing, IMHO. I'd like to do something similar with Shōjo, Seinen and Josei. --日本穣 19:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Well I learnt a lot I didn't know from your proposed article. --Squilibob 07:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Me, too. I didn't know they had so many classifications for juvenile criminals. If anyone wants to check my translation, feel free. There were a few parts where I was basically guessing because I didn't completely understand the specific words or phrasing they used. --日本穣 07:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Something along those lines would be fine at Shōnen (disambiguation), but search any body of text in English (websites with google, being one option), and you'll find that by far the greatest use of shōnen/shounen etc is in relation to a subset of manga and anime. Common names dictates that that should have the root. --zippedmartin 20:37, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

talkbox

I would like to suggest that, if a page is already covered by a daughter / sister project, that it should stand as is. In other words, it would probably be better to only have the more specific talkbox on an article's talk page, rather than having the specific and the general project talkboxes.

For example, there are a few articles now that have both the Japan project talkbox and the Japanese Mythology talkbox on their talkpage. I think it would be better to just use the Japanese Mythology box, as it is the more specific project. MikeDockery 04:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I can go with that. I was actually thinking it might be cool to have a tiny icon like the Good Article. I tried it here; look up in the top right corner of the article. --日本穣 07:10, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks okay to me, only it should be a little bit smaller, so that it doesn't break the section line at the top of the page. Another idea would be to include the icon (or just a regular text link) in the talkbox templates of the daughter projects. MikeDockery 13:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone want to make a smaller one? It can't be too much smaller or people won't be able to tell what it is. I actually think it breaking the section line looks good. (^_^) --日本穣 18:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, rather than make a smaller one, I just proportionally adjusted the dimensions of the image. Is that better now? It appears above the rule when I view it. --日本穣 00:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone? (^_^) --日本穣 23:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Personally, if I didn't already know what the icon was, I wouldn't be able to tell at the current size. As an alternative, what if you used 日本 in the corner instead?--Tachikoma 16:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, that can work as a good thing if it gets people to click on it. The same thing can be said for the Good Article and Featured Article icons that appear in the same corner--I didn't know what they were until I'd clicked on them once. (^_^) --日本穣 19:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Anime and manga

Shouldn't anime and manga article talk pages contain the {{WikiProject Anime and manga}} template instead of {{WikiProject Japan}}? Since WikiProject Anime and manga is already considered a "child" of this WikiProject, it makes more sense to discuss over all issues about anime and manga with that WikiProject, instead of both projects directly coming up with guidelines and recommendations for those individual articles. -- Ned Scott 08:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we've been discussing this just above. (^_^) --日本穣 10:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I think this should be the case for most anime and manga articles. In cases such as Hello Kitty, since it's a cultural phenomenon in addition to anime/manga, I think having both would be fine. Another option is the icon I made and stuck up in the top right corner of this page. --日本穣 10:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Linking to Japan Wikipedia

Hi all,

I have been doing some Hokkaido-related articles (mostly adding geostubs for mountains and volcanos). I notice that for some of the mountains the Japanese Wikipedia has pictures of the mountain. I would like to use those pictures, but the only way I see to do that is to download the picture and upload it again to the English Wikipedia. Is there a better way to do this?

Example: Mount Rausu

--imars 07:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Mount Rausu July 2005

You should be able to link to them like this:

[[Image:Mount rausu from road334.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Mount Rausu July 2005]].

Doing that will give you the image to the right. Is that what you were looking for? --日本穣 07:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know a way to make a photo that's in the Japanese Wikipedia appear in the English Wikipedia. However, in some cases you can find the photo on Commons; if it is, you can just put the usual Image: tag in (without mentioning Commons) and it'll appear. Before you copy a photo, it's important to make sure the license allows it, and when you copy it, it's again important to be sure to use a compatible license as well as attribution. Fg2 07:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, now I see that you uploaded Rausu to the English WP, with GFDL and attribution, so you already knew that! Fg2 07:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes I knew it was GFDL because when you look at the image on ja wiki, it has the following:

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. Subject to disclaimers. このページ付属の画像はフリーソフトウェア財団が発行した GNU Free Documentation License に示されるバージョン1.2またはそれ以降のライセンスの下提供されています。GFDLに必要とされる形式に沿っていない表紙、背表紙、不可変更部分に関してはWikipedia:著作権に示した解釈の下ライセンスされるものとします。 —This unsigned comment was added by Imars (talk • contribs) .

So, let me repeat your question: is there a way to include a photo on the Japanese Wikipedia in an article on the English Wikipedia? Assuming that the photo is not on the English Wikipedia or Commons. Or is it necessary to download the photo from the Japanese Wikipedia, and then upload it to the English or the Commons? If anyone knows a simpler way, we'd both like to learn it! Fg2 00:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

This sounds like a prime question for the Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) forum. --日本穣 00:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Fg2's right. It is "necessary to download the photo from the Japanese Wikipedia, and then upload it to the English or the Commons" (and vice versa: i.e. the same is true to en -> ja/commons. This is actually an FAQ on ja.wp village pump :). That's why there's the Wikimedia Commons, the way to share images (media files) across all the wikimedia projects. In fact, on ja.wp it is recommended to upload almost all the images to the Commons since on ja.wp just PD and GFDL are allowed and both of them are compatible with the Commons (whereas on en.wp, there's fairuse, which should not be uploaded to the Commons). - marsian 08:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Request from Translation page

I need help with the articles and images about bridges in Japan that are listed in List of largest suspension bridges. I have copied many images that I found at Japanese Wikipedia but since I cannot read Japanese (my browser doesn't even display it), I cannot find out the source of these pictures. Often I see a GFDL tag, but I also need to know who the photographer was. Without this information, the copied images are likely to be deleted. Also, if possible, the names of the bridges in Japanese should be added to the articles that are linked to the list. Thanks. -- Samuel Wantman 04:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Specifically which images? There are a lot of them on that page. If you give a list of the images, as well as the Japanese Wikipedia page from which you took them, then we can better help you. --日本穣 08:05, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It is a good majority of the Japanese bridges, If you click on each picture, each has a link to the original source on Japanese Wikipedia. Or, you can just follow the links below, and add the information here, and I'll put them on the pictures I copied. I need to know the original source of the photograph (the photographer or where it was copied from) and if the photographer added a copyright statement. I suspect all of these were taken by the uploaders.

• The original source of (photographer's name and copyright statement):
  • this picture of the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge.
    • User:Hamilton took the photo and uploaded it.
  • this picture of the Great Seto Bridge
    • Photographed by the contributor User:Toto-tarou
  • This image -- probably requires contacting the person who uploaded it.
    • User:Kazupie
  • this image of the Great Seto Bridge -- I'm guessing this one was taken by the uploader.
    • User:NORITO,S uploaded it; identified as taken by the uploader Norito Satoh
  • this image of the Kurusima Kaikyo Bridge
    • Identified as taken from the passenger's seat by uploader おすぽん (osupon) Fg2 12:13, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! -- Samuel Wantman 01:01, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

In order:

1. Akashikaikyo-ohashi3.jpg: {{GFDL}}
2. NanbisanSetoohashi.jpg: {{GFDL}}
3. 糸山にて.JPG: {{oldimage}}
4. Seto Bri2.jpg: {{GFDL}}
5. Kurusimakaikyo-1.JPG: {{GFDL}}

Hope that helps! (^_^) --日本穣 03:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I guess I wasn't clear enough. I can read the tags on these pages, they are in English. What I cannot read is the uploader's statements about where the image is from. Was it from a website? Who is the photographer? Are they saying something like "Copyright 2001 by User:xxxx" or "I took this picture on my cell phone", or "My friend xxxx gave me this picture and said I could upload it" or, "I copied this off a website, I forget which one". -- Samuel Wantman 11:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help! -- Samuel Wantman 21:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Last question. Was User:Kazupie the photographer of This image, or does he/she still need to be contacted? If so, could someone ask on his/her talk page? -- Samuel Wantman 22:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Organization idea

There are an awful lot of Japan-related articles on the site, and I think it might help us focus if we created some sub-pages of the main project for each grouping of articles. For any that fall under a specific exisiting WikiProject or Collaboration, we could post a link to the sub-page on that particular project's or collaborations page so they'd be aware of it. As we run across articles that need work, we could list them on the sub-pages under the appropriate heading (e.g. "Stubs needing expansion," "Wikify," "Grammar and spelling," etc.)

Here are some ideas for possible sub-pages:

• /History
• /Mythology, philosophy and religion
• /Language
• /Popular culture
• /Anime and manga
• /Business

Any others? I'm tired and going to bed after this. (^_^) --日本穣 09:45, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

If it were allowed, some of the requests from Wikipedia:Requested articles/Japan could be moved to the relevant sections. --Squilibob 02:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

True. I don't know why it wouldn't be allowed as long as there were some pointers to the pages so people could find them. --日本穣 04:03, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Moved Participant list to new page

You can find it here: /Participants. I moved it in order to make the main page to be a little smaller since we've gotten quite a few people joining the project. --日本穣 04:03, 26 March 2006 (UTC)