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All tuckered out

@retirededgelord / retirededgelord.tumblr.com

I've been here forever and I'll always come back. Writing/musing sideblog: edgeladyramblings

Welcome to my blog. I mostly reblog things and occasionally share my thoughts. I'm addicted to writing, a history nerd, lover of fiber arts, and slightly obsessed with cats. Oh, and a Christian.

If I don't follow back/unfollow you, it's just because I'm picky. You're free to continue following and interacting with my posts.

I'm also really bad at replying to messages but I'm always open to chat. If I'm vaguely familiar with you, feel free to ask for my discord. I'm much more active there.

FYI: My inbox is closed until further notice due to the overwhelming amount of scam asks I get. My messages are always open.

Below the cut are some tags. I will do my best to tag things appropriately but please forgive any lapses.

My writing/musing sideblog: @edgeladyramblings

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Dating Disney: Tangled

So, let’s just rip this bandage off quickly. This movie is not set in Germany. It simply doesn’t fit. The film is set in France. And before you get your torches and pitchforks, allow me to lay out the evidence.

Persinette

In the movie, Rapunzel’s hair has magical properties. Now the problem with that is, Rapunzel in the German version doesn’t have magic hair. But fret not. For there is a version of her story where she does have magic hair. The French story of Persinette, written in 1698 by Charlotte-Rose de Caumont de La Force. In the tale of Persinette, her hair has the magical power to change shape, length, and density at will, allowing her to turn her hair into a shield or wings. The witch was also named Dame Gothelle, which the Brothers Grimm used for their 1812 version.

Corona

The Kingdom of Corona’s design was inspired by Mont Saint Michel, a commune in Normandy, France. Even the name, Corona, comes from Latin for “Crown”. Latin is a Romance Language, just like French. And what is the French word for Crown? C’est Couronne.

The map above shows where Hazelnuts grow in Europe. If Mother Gothel can find them in three days, then she must live in one of the green areas where the common Hazelnuts grow. Originally, I wondered if she might live in a white area near the green border. However, with all of the evidence pointing at Normandy, France, I was willing to argue that they live in Normandy, but that at the time, there are just no wild hazelnuts in her local vicinity. Just because apples can be grown anywhere doesn’t mean they’re growing every 5 feet apart.

Fashion

Rapunzel’s gown takes on a Jane Austen aesthetic, her novels set during the Regency Era of English history from 1811-1820. This is not a guarantee of a period as Mother Gothel could very well be dressing Rapunzel in out of style dresses she’s collected over the centuries.

Mother Gothel’s attire is a combination of a Rohan gown and a girdle belt. While I could not find an exact era when these fashion elements emerged, I could find this image of a 12th century Norman Noblewoman. While it’s not perfectly hard evidence, it’s sufficient. The look is often labeled as a medieval celtic outfit. Although people often associate the Celts with the British Isles, but there were European mainland Celts in Gallo-Roman France. So whether it’s a 12th century Norman dress from medieval France or a celtic dress from Gaul, she’d still be wearing a very old dress that could be found in Normandy, France.

Rapunzel’s parents seem to be wearing 16th century clothes, with her father really channeling Henry VIII who ruled from 1509-1547. Their clothes are almost as out of date as Mother Gothel’s, but it is possible that they’re wearing “traditional national costumes”, as we only see them during important events. Only in formal portraits and when making public appearances, which might encourage them to pull out very old-fashioned costumes. Otherwise, I have no real excuse for their clothes.

Pop Culture

While in the Snuggly Duckling Tavern, one of the patrons mentions Mozart, who started composing music at the age of three in 1759. Because Rapunzel’s dress is a regency gown from the 1810s, Mozart has already died long before her dress would have been made. Even if the dress is old and out of date, Mozart has already impacted the musical world.

Technology

The fact that Flynn Ryder has mass produced wanted posters, this either means that people are hand-drawing every single poster, or they’re being mass produced with the 1439 invention of the printing press. While the noses change between posters, the sheer quantity suggests mass printing, especially the use of colored dyes in the red text. We also see the queen reading a printed book toward the end, which helps support the time period.

The modern shape of the guitar was invented in 1850. However, since Frozen takes place in 1840, and canonically after Tangled in the timeline, this guitar is an anachronism. However, not entirely. There were other guitars. Just not shaped like this. Pictured below Rapunzel is a Baroque Guitar from a 1672 painting. However, if we choose to ignore the cameo of Rapunzel and Eugene in Frozen, then an 1850 time frame is otherwise perfectly logical for this movie.

Rapunzel can be seen reading Beauty and the Beast (1756), Sleeping Beauty (1812) and The Little Mermaid (1837).

Conclusion

All of the evidence is pointing me to declaring definitively that the movie is set in Normandy, France in the year 1850. Much as I’d like to keep the headcanon that Frozen happens after Tangled, the inclusion of the Guitar says otherwise, and her cameo in Frozen is just that: a cameo. Most crossovers and cameos are second tier canon, and I must go by the evidence in the film. If you simply cannot part with that headcanon, the film could take place in 1837. it’s still 3 years before Frozen, and keeps it plausible for Rapunzel to read The Little Mermaid. Otherwise, I have to go with the primary canon of the film and its stand-alone context to decide its time period. Of course, now we run into the problem of the French Revolution because literally every part of this movie is screaming Normandy. Then again, the king and queen are dressed from the 16th century, Eugene’s jerkin is straight out of the 17th, while his white rolled up sleeves are much more modern. Simply put, this movie just takes place Once Upon a Time, and is a bit of a temporal headache. So, I’m just going to say 1850, Normandy, France. Just block out the people screaming “but the revolution” because this movie is kind of a hot mess when it comes to time periods. Honestly, if you have a better suggestion for how to make sense of this movie’s time period or placement, be my guest, cuz this one is a bit of a headscratcher. We can’t even argue that the French Revolution never happened in the Disneyverse because Napoleon was referenced in Beauty and the Beast. So hit me with your own theorizes because your guess is likely as good as mine on this one. This one may end up getting a second post if I find better evidence.

Setting: Corona (Normandy), France Kingdom: Kingdom of Corona Year: “1850″ Period: Victorian Era Language: French

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dragcn-queen

Earlier I re-blogged that I agreed with everything but Rapunzel’s gown, and I was asked to elaborate. I’m sorry it took so long to do so! I wanted to make sure that, since I don’t have access to the materials I had when I studied medieval, renaissance, and early modern dress in University, that I was not just providing you with unreliable source photos or costume websites. I’m sorry if this is completely over the top, but as I said, I focused on this in schooling so I have no chill when I get to talk period dress.

First and foremost, I will say that Mother Gothel’s dress is right on the money. Her dress is from the middle ages (my guess would be from (1000-1175), and Rapunzel’s is more similar in various styles and details to 16th century gowns of varying classes. 

We need to recall that Rapunzel will not have the same access to all the things that went into costumes of that time, so the foundations of the garment may not be the same, but when you look at the details, that’s when it becomes clear. It’s why all the gowns I describe below will have a fuller shape and structure. The things I’m talking about are:

1. A stiff corset with boning and/or stays beneath the bodice. I highly doubt Gothel would want to show off Rapunzel’s bosom and shape with a corset, nor make it more difficult to do day-to-day labor.

2. A hoop skirt, hip roll, bum roll, or various layering petticoats (Although her Parks counterpart wears petticoats and bloomers under her dress, Movie!Rapunzel only wears ONE petticoat).

3. Rapunzel would most likely not have someone to help her dress everyday. Therefore, a back-lacing bodice/corset/stays would be nigh impossible for her to wear. Trust me, I’ve tried to do it. Big fat nope. Front laced bodices were much more common in peasants, prostitutes, or working women of the merchant class, who could not afford their own handmaiden to dress them. I believe this would influence how Rapunzel would customize her gowns. She does have a lot of details similar to upper classes on her gown, but the front lacing is (typically) more lower classes. Upper-class women who did wear front lacing bodices would usually cover the the space between the laces with a nice stomacher:

The woman above here is wearing stays underneath, several petticoats, and maybe a hip roll, as well as a hoop skirt for volume. But imagine that front lace bodice there with NO corset underneath. It would shape like Rapunzel’s.

We also need to keep in mind that Disney has a history of looking at costuming over an entire century, and combining things together for a specific look, as they did with Snow White.

Now, in no way do I think Rapunzel’s gown is Regency period, at all. Regency styles of dress would always center around a raised empire waist, that was the hallmark of the style, with NO little to no bodice in the front. I think the similarity you see in the shape of the gown and how it hangs, is due to the fact that, as mentioned above, she does not have or wear shaping garments or underwear of any kind.  The picture you used above looks like it’s a costuming website, so it is not actually accurate to the style, and is a nightgown/chemise, which I don’t think Rapunzel wears either. I have attached some examples for typical Regency gowns:

image

And a ballgown with a puff(ish) sleeve:

Rapunzel has a bodice (a lace up vest like portion on top). It may not be stiff or have structure (because, like I said, I do not think she would be able to make herself or think to make herself a corset/stays, or be given one), so the bodice is not rigid and doesn’t form that distinct body shape we think of for Tudor fashion. The A-line detailing on the skirt is not Regency either. Additionally, puff sleeves can be found in various decades of dress all across renaissance and early modern time. They drift in and out of fashion, pop up for some years then go away again, just like ours do on a decade basis. Apparently mom jeans are in again right now. I’m sure they will go away in a couple years. Similarly, the puff sleeve was prevalent in various decades, including Regency gowns. I would argue that Giselle’s turquoise dress from Enchanted is has more in common with Regency. I think it’s important we look at the other details of Rapunzel’s gown to truly pinpoint with more accuracy.

So, earlier in your post you showed a girl in a costume that looked like the dress Queen Arianna wears.

This is 100% a mesh of several 16th Century styles. No doubt. The A line overdress. The stomacher panel. The puff sleeve of the chemise showing through the sleeve of the overdress. The underskirt with a complimentary pattern. 

The PEARL NECKLACE THAT LOOKS LIKE ANNE BOLEYN’S NECKLACE:

 The only thing different is that her hair is not in a hood. But hoods suck. We like our women with free hair! Arianna would DEFINITELY have someone to help her dress.

Now lets look at Rapunzel:

Now, in my opinion, this is also 100% 16th Century dress, attempting to be high class, but not having the resources. A discount ladies dress if you will, which completely makes sense if Rapunzel made it herself. It’s a complete hodgepodge. The puff sleeve with the striping detail is like a watered down version of the classic 16th Century puff and slash sleeve of the times:

The bodice is a lace up bodice with no corset underneath like 16th Century peasantry-wear:

Woman on the right^

Woman in the middle^

Woman on the right^

Her skirt mimics the A-line detail of upper class overdress’s skirt, but hers are not two skirts, they are one skirt. The seaming is what gives the illusion to the overdress. Here’s a costume to show what Arianna’s (and Parks!Rapunzel) does:

But Rapunzel’s is all one skirt. SHe has the A-line detail that is hallmark 16th Century, and she has the brocade (faux) underskirt pattern as well. And, she hand-painted her own details on there.

On the left^

With this one you can see another feature, is that the top of the sleeve near the shoulder blade would be larger and taper down to a smaller style. This particular gown has the thin chemise similar to Rapunzel’s. I’ve seen that a few times in 16th Century gowns in Italy, where it is a bit warmer in climate.

Finally, you can see the focal point of the gown is at the natural waist. All the lines of the gown point to it, which is classic of 16th Century dresses. The focal point and seaming is not under the bust like a Regency gown.

BONUS: For her final gown, she retains some of her old style, more of her mom’s style, and FINALLY HAS A A HANDMAIDEN TO LACE A BACK CORSET:

So basically, I think that Rapunzel’s gown is pretty obviously 16th Century. A watered down hodgepodge of styles that would make sense considering the character. Most of the other analysis I’ve seen of the costuming in this movie comes to the same conclusion. I hope this helps and doesn’t come off as pretentious, I just got excited to share some info!

@dragcn-queen I absolutely adore you for this in-depth analysis on a topic I couldn’t easily research. This is a big part of why I love doing this series. I love learning, and this is all super helpful! I’ll definitely consider this new information and make a new, revised post with a stronger analysis, and I’ll be sure to credit you for your gigantic contribution! Thanks so much!

"women under 19" is an interesting way to describe teenagers 15-19

"Women under 19" is a weird way to say "children"

you know your society is fucked when people get mad over the fact that children are no longer getting pregnant

"Women under 19" is a weird way to say "children"

15-17 : Teenager

18-19 : FUCKING ADULT

STOP TREATING ADULTS LIKE CHILDREN! They aren't. It's fuckers like you that want people to be considered "Children" until they are 25 all because none of you were raised right. Jesus FUCKING CHRIST.

eighTEEN and nineTEEN aren't teenagers just bc they can do things legally without their parents' permission now, who knew

Classification of teenager colloquially is understood to be an age group with "teen " in it. If we are going purely by absolute definition yes 18 and 19 are technically teenagers. However if we are going by colloquial definitions in which we are using teen as adolescent, it is not appropriate to say that 18 and 19 are still technically teenagers when they are adult ages. So I'm not an idiot. I'm not stupid. I'm taking a nuanced stance on understanding what an adult is. And I specifically responded to the fact that people in the responses were saying that 18 and 19 are still children. When they are not. They are the ages of adults. 21-year-olds can do stuff without their adults too or they still technically children? Are you one of those morons who thinks that people are children until they're 28?

You seem kinda mad about the drop in teen pregnancy (according to the absolute definition, if we must be pedantic)...you good?

Quick edit to add that I agree with you, but you're getting hung up on a point that is not even in the spirit of the original post.

I did not create this summary but I have permission to share it.

Act I, the background:

  • The video opens with a timeline of Nano's history, Kilby glazing herself, and bragging about participation numbers.
  • When Kilby joined the board, she "figured we must be getting five- and six-figure support from big publishers" and "big authors." But, SURPRISE! "Nanowrimo never had that level of backing."
  • Shows some charts (screenshots, below). Note that the charts show that right around half (give or take, depending on the year) of Nano's funding came from charitable contributions.
  • Immediately after showing these charts, she says the organization was "primarily funded by sponsorships and merchandies, and not by charitable contributions." This is a great sign for what's to come. *As of 2020, Nano was "six-figure[s]" in debt. Her time on the board was focused on fundraising.

Act II, the scandal:

  • Kilby claims that the grooming of children ONLY happened off-site, NEVER on nano itself.
  • Kilby claims that the board publicly shared the findings of its investigation into CF after 10 days. It is implied this was done back in MAY.
  • Kilby admits nobody had any relevant training or certification for dealing with children.
  • Kilby claims nobody at NaNo knew who CF/Mod X really was (blatant lie) because they just didn't keep those records, which prevented them from being able to work with child protection organizations.
  • Kilby claims she was tapped for the ED position because she "understood youth-facing organizations" and "had experience with the required state-mandated training." No evidence of this understanding or experience is supplied.
  • More self-glazing
  • "Our top priority is, and was, child safety." lol
  • Kilby claims they implemented staff background checks "immediately" (later in the video, she'll claim that some unspecified number of people had been "vetted" and were working with the org again).
  • Further claims that they "developed an advice content [sic]" aimed at teaching minors how to be safe online. ….where? who knows?
  • Claims they started verifying educators on YWP.

Act III, the community:

  • Forums: Inconsistent moderations, outdated TOS. Saw problematic, unaddressable behavior. Couldn't maintain the integrity of the space.
  • One of the problems was that they had "encouraged" "volunteers" to set up "unofficial" Discords and facebook groups with the Nano name. "Nobody under nanowrimo's authority was moderating those groups." Using resources to deal with issues from these "unaffiliated" groups.
  • "The number of people who view themselves as experts by virtue of how long they've been doing Nanowrimo… numbered in the tens of thousands." [The salt really starts here]

Act IV, the fallout:

  • ED job was "bigger than rebuilding after an educational crisis" [because you're so good at that, clearly]
  • When Kilby took over, there were more than a dozen existing labor violations.
  • Participation had been declining since before 2020, fell off a cliff.
  • Sponsor money in March 2023: $310k. Sponsor money in March 2024: $125k
  • 2023's funding shortfall was equal to 20% of their total annual budget
  • "We were operating outside of our mission." Claims they became an "advocacy group that actively lobbied for authors." No further specifics of how, for who, or to whom are provided.
  • We COULD recover from this, except for not having money.

Act V: Conclusion (why is there still 10 minutes left in the video??)

  • Nano is shutting down.
  • Website will stay up "as long as possible, but we cannot guarantee a specific end date" [because I don't know what the host's non-payment policies are or when the check will bounce]
  • We were going to merge with another writing org, but they noped out when they saw our debt.
  • "Other potential supporters" were scared off by mean, dastardly 'ol REDDIT
  • "Many people who withheld their support, or supported us anonymously, told us that the tone of the community was a big issue."
  • The press was mean to us and inaccurate about our position on AI. (what press? Youtubers??)
  • Kilby claims they TURNED DOWN "a number of" AI sponsors because it "went against our mission."
  • "The real alternative to the organization closing, and I can't say this enough, would have been for us to been funded [sic] by the community." No kidding?
  • "Community funding shouldn't have been a problem."
  • The collapse of Nano was because of things that happened before I got here (financial mismanagement), but it absolutely wasn't because of AI or a scandal. Don't put it in the newspaper that it was because of AI or a scandal. Those were just a coincidence.
  • Thank you to everyone I fired, drove away, etc. etc.

hmmm why does my uterus hurt and why do i feel kinda off. weird. surely these are not the warning symptoms of a predictable biological process that occurs on a regular schedule. anyway. im going to wear white pants today.

umm ... not to be overly suggestive but have you considered hysterectomy?

no i don't generally consider major surgeries to remove healthy organs from my body on the grounds of inconvenience

REMINDER TO ALL WOMEN: YOU NEED YOUR UTERUS. IT IS NOT ONLY NECESSARY TO PROPERLY REGULATE YOUR HORMONES, BUT IT IS ALSO A MASSIVELY IMPORTANT SUPPORT STRUCTURE THAT WILL CAUSE OTHER ISSUES IF YOU REMOVE

This, my God give me strength, infuriates me so much.

Everytime the "Ugh men don't get flack for vasectomies!" Reversible!!! They are not opened up!! They barely require any recovery time!!!

My mom just had a hysterectomy to clear out the plague of endometriosis that was causing her severe trouble and believe me young women: you are not ready at 20-30 years old for the hormonal rollercoaster your body will be on post hysterectomy.

And please remember, when we say "hormonal" it doesn't mean "moody." NO. Your body will suddenly be bereft of chemicals it was using daily and you will FEEL IT.

The doctor basically told her to stay inside for the first month of recovery because her auto-immune system would be out of whack, her day-night cycle would be off (tired, all the time), even her digestive system was (and still is) out of whack. Even after recovering physically, she's still down most days because she's had to adjust to not having those hormones pumping through her body.

And, depending on your health, you may (like she will) have to wait SIX MONTHS before a doctor can even prescribe replacement hormones.

You don't wanna have kids? Fine, whatever. Do NOT undergo a major, irreversible, deeply demanding surgery just because you don't want periods or children.

hmmm why does my uterus hurt and why do i feel kinda off. weird. surely these are not the warning symptoms of a predictable biological process that occurs on a regular schedule. anyway. im going to wear white pants today.

umm ... not to be overly suggestive but have you considered hysterectomy?

no i don't generally consider major surgeries to remove healthy organs from my body on the grounds of inconvenience

REMINDER TO ALL WOMEN: YOU NEED YOUR UTERUS. IT IS NOT ONLY NECESSARY TO PROPERLY REGULATE YOUR HORMONES, BUT IT IS ALSO A MASSIVELY IMPORTANT SUPPORT STRUCTURE THAT WILL CAUSE OTHER ISSUES IF YOU REMOVE

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